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Civil Defense Rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by kcmarine, Sep 14, 2007.

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  1. kcmarine

    kcmarine Member

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    I'm back... just been busy with school here of late.

    I was wondering the other day, if the US had a program like Switzerland where every house had a gun, what would that rifle be like?

    This is just kinda a daydream thread... ha ha... sorry.
     
  2. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    Depends who ran the government at the time. If it were the Democrats, it would probably fire a cork on a string.
     
  3. markmc753

    markmc753 Member In Memoriam

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    cheap to produce, uber reliable and simple -- an ak
     
  4. aka108

    aka108 Member

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    Probably something patterned after the AK. Cheap to built, few parts, easy to maintain and simple enough for the simplest person to learn to operate.
     
  5. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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  6. USMC Tanker

    USMC Tanker Member

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    The US government issuing AK variants to the civilian population? That wouldn't make any sense when there is already a logistical base in place for the M16 family.

    It would more than likely be left-over M16A2 service rifles pulled from military armories, modified to semi-automatic fire only.
     
  7. Kaylee

    Kaylee Moderator

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    What USMC Tanker said.

    Actually, the DCM/ODCMP is a pretty darn good model of the same - sell the govt's cast offs for a song, then use 'em for civilian education and competition. Prolly though these days the ideal would be using surplused M16A1s and A2s in something resembling 3-gun competitions.

    Pity we ain't taking it as seriously as we used to. :(

    -K
     
  8. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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    Modifying them to semi-only would be pointless, because as far as the law is concerned, if it ever was a machinegun, it forever is a machinegun.

    It would take an act of Congress in order to dispense surplus M16's to the civvy population, literally.
     
  9. cslinger

    cslinger Member

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    Old, beat to snot, M16s. Never happen.
     
  10. Sharps-shooter

    Sharps-shooter Member

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    Maybe it would be old garands. They could call it something like "Civilian marksmanship program".

    If it were really like what the swiss have going on, I guess it would be the current service rifle. But swisserlnd is a lot small, and they have pretty high taxes from what I understand, so they can afford this type of program, and we can't, unless priorities change
     
  11. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    If the US had a program like Switzerland where every house had a rifle?

    It would be nice if they handed out (or sold) old M16s but that will never happen. We are lucky that the CMP program is still functioning at all.

    Even if the US were faced with invasion by a large Army than mass conscription would be the answer. In the new People's Army we would have whatever rifle the contractor with the best lobbyist wanted to sell.
     
  12. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    The US has had similar programs, though not on a national level. Up here during WWII natives were trained and issued Garands.
     
  13. havanatrader

    havanatrader Member

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    By the time congress got done with committee decisions, it would look a lot like this. Until one citizen got a welt from the rubber band. Then they'd ban them.:cool:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    I think an important part of the Swiss plan is that everyone also has mandatory military service and are theoretically trained and disciplined enough to use a rifle. I don't think it would be such a great idea to roll up into the projects and start issuing all the wellfare dependents their Civil Defense rifles.
     
  15. DMK

    DMK Member

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    Didn't the swiss just take home the rifle they were issued in service? It's my understanding that the K31 was in service until the 70s so some folks had them, others were issued STG-57s, etc.

    In our case, that would be M1s, M14s, M16A1s, M16A2s, etc.
     
  16. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    Darn double posts!**
     
  17. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    i think the swiss get to take home any individual weapon i believe, SAW's, Rifles etc.

    personaly. i think the US should have the system like the one i read about a while ago. i think it may have been swiss. in order to vote you must display a rifle capable of over X ( lets say 1200 ftlbs?) and X ( 100?) rounds of ammo.

    that will be the day...
     
  18. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    Pardon me if I sound bitter, but I believe our government and its PC-ninny attitude would allow our borders to be overrun before it would ever train "civilians" in the use of arms, let alone ever issue weapons to civilians.
     
  19. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

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    Just get a 16 inch M4 look alike. DPMS, Bushmaster, Stag, etc.... with a EOT, Aimpoint, or ACOG (if you have the bucks), and a chest pack of mags.
     
  20. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Our government at that time was expecting all households to maintain at least one weapon capable of firing government ammunition.

    If we weren't so inclined to the move towards facism that would imply keeping a 5.56 0r 7.62 NATO caliber weapon on hand.

    I will always keep an AR15 around right now since this is the government standard.

    It would be nice if they provided magazines, ammunition, and toss in an M203 or M79 grenade launcher with 12 rounds of H.E. Fragmentary grenades if things ever get dicey.

    I can take care of the rest on my own.
     
  21. Limeyfellow

    Limeyfellow Member

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    The main difference between the Swiss and the US, is that the majority of the Swiss males who are given these arms do so when they have finished conscription duties and military training to successfully use military tactics as well as being armed.

    I guess it be like giving an M16 or SAW to members of the military as they finish their active duty.

    We also have to remember the Swiss are a far smaller population base.

    Still I would think it would be nice, but since we haven't had a real pro gun President since Kennedy, I don't see it happening.
     
  22. precisionshootist

    precisionshootist Member

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    It would be surplus M-16 A1/A2 rifles. As the military got new gear the old would be transferred back to the civilians that paid for the stuff to begin with. In the past the program was the DCM (Department of Civilian Marksmanship) which was a government program specifically designed to promote and carry on the fighting skill of the American riflemen. Then it was turned into the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) which is private but still with the same purpose and same surplus military rifles. The problem now of course is that the second amendment has been limited (effectively repealed) to semi-automatic weapons only so civilians can’t possess anything made during or after the Viet Nam war. After reading these simple facts warning lights should now be flashing. We have been disarmed!
     
  23. LaEscopeta

    LaEscopeta Member

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    Even through I would like a few cheap military surplus M-16s, and I agree the tax payers should get a chance to get what we paid for after the government no longer has a use for it, I don’t think handing rifles out to the general population with no training or organization is going to do much for national defense.

    +1. The Swiss have to complete conscripted military training to get their free rifle, the government does not just give them to any and all civilians. And I think the guys with the free rifles are part of reserve units with National-Guard-like monthly & yearly training requirements. But unlike our National Guard the Swiss reserve units are not supposed to join the regular army in time of crisis but form semi-independent insurgent units in case the country is invaded. They train around their own towns and villages, learning the land, where the good ambush spots are, where escape and hidden rally points are, etc. Not only does each member of the reserve units have a rifle and 50 rounds at home, but the units have heavier weapons, ammo and supplies hidden around their area of operations in caves, sunk in lakes, etc. And like any good insurgent army the organization is compartmentalized; one unit does not know a lot about the plans of adjacent units, so when individuals are captured there is a limited amount of information they could give the enemy. They came up with this system at the start of WWII, and once they got it set up…THEY TOLD THE NAZIES ABOUT IT! So the Nazies knew if they invaded they would have a full blown, trained, equipped and supplied insurgency attacking them through out the country, tying down who knows how many divisions.

    Further info on the above:

    http://frankcomment.blogspot.com/2007/05/swiss-military-service.html

    http://history-switzerland.geschichte-schweiz.ch/switzerland-second-world-war-ii.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Army

    http://www.strike-the-root.com/51/walker/walker1.html

    http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=245

    I don’t think the goal of the DCM nor the current CMP is to arm groups of citizens so they can form army units to fight off an invasion. It is to encourage rifle handling and marksmanship skills through out the population, so the military would not be starting from scratch with all new recruits.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2007
  24. Limeyfellow

    Limeyfellow Member

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    +1 The German high command estimated they would need 5 million men to occupy Switzerland successfully. Not bad since the Swiss only had 4 million in the whole country, but an insurgency with 800000 members is not a nice easy victory for anyone.
     
  25. molonlabetn

    molonlabetn Member

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    Probably something akin to a Ruger Mini-14 or Armalite AR180B. Cheap, easy to use, and chambered in .223/5.56. Maybe they'd issue some old M16A1s & A2s... but it's unlikely (they wouldn't have enough, for one thing).
     
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