Clancy chapter on retaking hijacked airliner

[Waitone]

Hi there. I'm pro-environmentalist. The environment is a good thing. What I don't like are the whack jobs who seem to think that the life of a research mouse is worth more than a building full of human researchers. Those guys scare me.

Then play the language game and refuse to call yourself and environmentalist. Call yourself what you are. . . a conservationist. That way you can define yourself any way you choose. For now you have to explain why you are not one of "those people."

 

[Zundfolge]

A couple of responses: first, there's a difference between genocide directed at a specific group of people and genocide of everyone. The former, unfortunately, has plenty of historical precedent. The latter does not.

I think you missed my point (which to be fair wasn't all that well articulated).

You basically said that you didn't buy the idea that people who where crazy enough to want to kill of all of humanity would be able to hold it together long enough to actually formulate a plan and see that plan through ... I simply pointed out a group of equally crazy folk from the real world (who's plan was just slightly less broad then the envrios in R6) who kept it together quite well long enough to plan and execute their plan ... the fact that they failed is immaterial (since the BGs in R6 failed as well).



But seriously, its just a fantasy novel ... you should just enjoy it for what it is

 

[Control Group]

Hi there. I'm pro-environmentalist. The environment is a good thing. What I don't like are the whack jobs who seem to think that the life of a research mouse is worth more than a building full of human researchers. Those guys scare me.

There's a big difference betweeen "environmentalists" and the whack jobs who are hiding behind that term.

This is akin to arguing that liberals are for liberty. True in a narrow sense, but not representative of common usage. Insofar as I prefer clean water to dirty and breathable air to un-, I am also an environmentalist. As, I imagine, is almost everyone. I doubt, even on the right-wing bastion of THR, you'll find many people who are in favor of indiscriminate pollution, unchecked dumping in landfills, or discaring toxic waste in the Mississippi River.

The term environmentalist, fairly or not, has been co-opted by a specific ideology which is just as politically concerned as it is environmentally, if not moreso. It is specifically characterized by dubious science, dodgy thermodynamics, and "proposals" which are, without exception, extraordinarily expensive.

My coworker who complains if you are carrying a styrofoam cup, but drives an SUV to work, is an "environmentalist." The people who make sure I drive on 10% ethanol - despite the fact that my car's mileage is more than 10% lower on reformulated gas - are "envrionmentalists." In general, anyone who is more focused on what you should be sacrificing in the name of the environment than on what they're doing is an "environmentalist."

Myself, I set the AC a couple degrees higher than I'd really like, turn off everything I can when I leave the apartment, drive a car that gets 38 mpg, and recycle as feasible. I'm not an environmentalist.

 

[Control Group]

I think you missed my point (which to be fair wasn't all that well articulated).

You basically said that you didn't buy the idea that people who where crazy enough to want to kill of all of humanity would be able to hold it together long enough to actually formulate a plan and see that plan through ... I simply pointed out a group of equally crazy folk from the real world (who's plan was just slightly less broad then the envrios in R6) who kept it together quite well long enough to plan and execute their plan ... the fact that they failed is immaterial (since the BGs in R6 failed as well).

Fair enough. I had, in fact, missed your point. Upon rereading, it's not that you were unclear, it's that I'm at work and my reading comprehension is clearly suffering.

In any event, your point - now that I understand it - is well taken.

 

[Gordon Fink]

Call yourself what you are … a conservationist.…

Good point. I like trees and clean water but also believe wise development is both desirable and natural. I’m a conservationist.

Another fascinating Round Table discussion.

~G. Fink

 

[Flyboy]

http://www.vhemt.org/

I heartily endorse this product and/or service.

Further, I'd like to nominate several thousand members.

 

[Rob1035]

Clancy was basically the first author I read for real when I was young, finished his collection (what it was by 2000) in high school and enjoyed them. In the last year, I have bought basically his entire collection and re-read them all. As a polisci student I understand (and appreciate) his books much much more now. I will definitely agree that his writing has gone downhill as of late, ToTT was bleh at best.

His 'good' novels, CotK, PG, CaPD, etc (any more letters ) are still and will always be wonderful novels. The plot intricacies are engrossing as anything else i've ever read.


On a side note, I recently rented the dvd of Sum of All Fears, the commentary with Clancy and the director is great, everyone should check it out.

 

[CAS700850]

I enjoyed early Clancy much more than late Clancy. My first was Clear and Present Danger. I then went back and started the series from the beginning. My favorites are still Clear and Present Danger and (unmentioned so far) Without Remorse.

As to the believability fo the stories, I like to use the phrase a professor once told me in undergrad. "Suspension of Disbelief", whereby you intentionally ignore that which would otherwise be unbelievable, in order to enjoy the story.

 

[MarkDido]

My favorites are Red Storm Rising and The Hunt For Red October. Nothing a good naval warfare book.

I agree. Clancy's early techo-thrillers were fast paced, had short chapters and kept you on the edge of your seat. The Cardinal of the Kremlin bored me to tears.

I wonder why no one has done a movie of Red Storm Rising?

Wasn't one of Clancy's books that was made into a movie "changed" from Middle Eastern terrorists to White Supremists?

 

[garyk/nm]

Tom Clancy is the pinnacle of chairborne Ranger-ism. In his early books he actually put some real effort into research (Red Storm is mind boggling). Lately it seems that he is just trying to crank them out to keep the paychecks coming. Note how often the phrase "been there, done that, got the t-shirt" crops up in more recent writings.
The killer for me was Teeth of the Tiger. Ryan Jr is hanging with the big dogs and being taken seriously by the likes of the FBI Director. Just where has a 20-something college student BEEN, and what is the THAT which he has DONE?

A little more research and a little less armchair commando, if you please, Mr. Clancy.

 

[obiwan1]

While I liked "Rainbow Six", I liked the first book about Clark. The one in which he takes out a drug dealer and meets Sandy. I forget the name of the book, but I liked it.

Secondly - In Rainbow Six Chavez was carrying a Beretta .45. Did the Cougar .45 exist when that book was written? I don't think so. Also "low velocity" ammo? In a .45! There isn't much hi vel ammo for a .45.

 

[buzz_knox]

The book you are referring to is "Without Remorse." It's one of my favorite books as well.

The Cougar existed at the time, but it's not what Clancy was thinking of. He's a big Beretta fan, and in Sum of All Fears, has Clark carrying a Beretta 10mm. At the time, the 10mm was the in thing and Clancy figured Beretta would make one. As .45 became prevalent again, Clancy just took a Beretta .45 as a given, even if he hadn't heard of the Cougar.

 

[Stauffenberg]

I liked Red Storm Rising and Sum of All Fears. Being a young'un and not entirely understanding the delicacies of our relationship with the Soviets when I read them, I had to have my dad fill in some details ("Why not just nuke 'em?" "Goddammit, son..."), but over all, me likey.

Bear and The Dragon... hmm. I found him stretching heavily to make the war happen, and the end tied up waaaay too neatly. Part of the fun of Red Storm Rising was that the West took some big hits in the process. But in Siberia, the US might has well have waved a magic wand, it went so smooth.

 

[Rob1035]

Wasn't one of Clancy's books that was made into a movie "changed" from Middle Eastern terrorists to White Supremists?

Yup, that was Sum of All Fears.

 

[Jmurman]

I also enjoy Clancey's books. However, Rainbow Six left me asking a question "What would be the ramifications IF someone did manager to loose a virus with the destructive power of that?"

I do think that there are fringe elements that would welcome the massive reduction of any population.