I had my doubts when "Classicballistx" showed up, but I've been corresponding with them via PMs and I gotta say, they are impressive in their knowledge of BP revolvers, and what they offer. Also, their Ebay rating is perfect. Here's an example of a "discussion" I had with Wisent (I post this with his knowledge)
I asked: Do you plan to market cylinders or parts for other revolvers, say, Colts?
Response: A short and marginally polite answer is “No”. There’s a better (if somewhat longer) answer.
As to Colts - exchanging a loaded Colt cylinder for an unloaded one is not practical. Apart from being slow and requiring tools, the wear factors of Colt patterns make additional cylinders a losing proposition.
The Colt pattern is at practical design limit for ballistic performance. The only high ballistic performance solution is the Walker or Dragoon and in practice, my forbearers kept those on saddle pommels. High ballistic performance Colts are worthless as conventional, practical sidearms.
Even the farthest reaches of modern metallurgy could not impart shooting accuracy to the Colt pattern. Precision Colt cylinders for target use are a fool's errand.
That still leaves the Remington replicas.
Pedersoli and Hege are the precision standard for Remington pattern replicas. They cost a lot and if you look critically at what they deliver, that becomes hard to justify. Since they are perfectly made to conform to the 'primitive' standards of international muzzle-loading competition standards, they can’t incorporate much in the way of improvement. When you're ready to spring $1300 or better to add an uncommon and really well made primitive replica to your battery, spend the money, because your preference is definitely collecting and not shooting. Incidentally, if you want a rarer bird, both Hege and Pedersoli sell a wonderfully well made replica of the Rogers & Spencer manufactured by Feinwerkbau. I’ve shot all three, I can’t complain about their quality, and they perform about as well as you could possibly expect from their configuration.
Then there are all the rest. Don’t mistake my comments for criticism – I’m talking about the products of friends and peers. The manufacturers of the Val Trompia know their market and fulfill very well. It’s not just stateside, either. Well made and not so well made replicas at economical price find their places in markets in Europe, the Americas more broadly, and Pac Rim. Their higher end products are made of good steel with proper hardening and with an attractive finish. A number of their innovations are thoughtful and well adapted to a balance between cost and functionality. At the upper end, their precision represents a bargain. If you’re after the ‘look’, buy one.
Again, there are good reasons why we choose not to go into specialties for Remington replicas. Allow an explanation I hope will not offend. In 1957, Ford made the pinnacle Y-block V-8. The Y-block was an OHV manifestation of flathead thinking. The T-Bird 312 was the limit (some say beyond!) of development of engineering very much superseded by the new thinking Chevrolet V-8. Chevrolet had no flathead thinkers in its engineering department in 1953. Ford introduced the 239 in ’54, Chevy the 265 in ’55.
Folks enjoy keeping old Fords churning. Y-blocks were made in Ford plants until ‘82. Folks enjoy getting performance out of small-block Chevrolets. Engineering makes performance, and performance favors Ruger.
Extreme ballistic performance in Remington replicas is a shaky proposition. One can’t know in whose frame a user is likely to try a high power load. That’s just plain scary.
As for extreme target accuracy – well, by the time you make a replica shoot even with a drop-in Classicballistx/ROA, you will have spent a lot more for a gun that won’t endure many seasons. If you’re shooting blackpowder pistol at silhouette with the requisite high accuracy/high terminal performance loads, you can exclude everything but ours.
Apart from all said so far, my friends in the Val Trompia (where all replica guns are made, including the so-called Colts) have fully depreciated capital equipment, a material and labor price advantage, and a distribution network already making the pieces for Uberti, Pietta, et al. That's why you can buy plain replacements from Dixie for $60.00. We do a different thing.
Now to a phenomenon and what we are going to do with Colts.
You have an affinity for the Navy Colt. It’s understandable. That gun’s ‘fit/feel’ is the basis for the most successful single actions – the 1873 Colt and all its successors – including Ruger’s. The only real departure ever made in that vein was Colt’s 1912 Bisley and it was just followed a trend of double-action design. More in a minute.
I spent a few hours with some of the best Ruger hacks out there this past weekend discussing Classicballistx. Apart from basic and advanced cylinder stuff, the attention getter was what I’m doing for ROA ‘fit/feel’. My answer (a little different from the Colt SAA/ROA grip adaptation) is to replicate the 1860 Army Colt for the ROA. They agreed.
Have you ever shut your eyes and gone back and forth between Army and Navy Colts or between an 1860 and a Peacemaker? I did, and the answer for me is the 1860 Army. When I got done with my 1860/ROA prototype, I also came to the same conclusion in comparing it to my Bisley/ROA prototype, though in a different way. Both Bisley and Army Colt grip frames fitting the ROA are targets for 2008 introduction. Plenty of us don’t have miniature hands and both of these patterns are more comfortable for heavy recoiling high performance shooting than the SAA/Navy Colt, the Remington, or the OEM-ROA. And so that you know I’m not immune to good looks, I think this makes the finest looking gun imaginable. So did my counterparts.
Well, you might have expected a one word answer and not an essay, but here ‘tis. I know you want a Navy, but can I suggest you go to page 187 of the current Brownell’s book? You’ll find a better mousetrap. If you want the lighter feel of the Navy, think about smithing a barrel for your ROA. If that’s not enough, get back to me and we’ll talk about real gunfighter work for your ROA. You’ll never look back and you’ll have something that’s going to provide really great shooting in a gun that will express your personality for a lifetime. And you can do it for less than what you’ll pour into a string of replicas that will never really measure up.
Regards,
Wisent
I asked: Do you plan to market cylinders or parts for other revolvers, say, Colts?
Response: A short and marginally polite answer is “No”. There’s a better (if somewhat longer) answer.
As to Colts - exchanging a loaded Colt cylinder for an unloaded one is not practical. Apart from being slow and requiring tools, the wear factors of Colt patterns make additional cylinders a losing proposition.
The Colt pattern is at practical design limit for ballistic performance. The only high ballistic performance solution is the Walker or Dragoon and in practice, my forbearers kept those on saddle pommels. High ballistic performance Colts are worthless as conventional, practical sidearms.
Even the farthest reaches of modern metallurgy could not impart shooting accuracy to the Colt pattern. Precision Colt cylinders for target use are a fool's errand.
That still leaves the Remington replicas.
Pedersoli and Hege are the precision standard for Remington pattern replicas. They cost a lot and if you look critically at what they deliver, that becomes hard to justify. Since they are perfectly made to conform to the 'primitive' standards of international muzzle-loading competition standards, they can’t incorporate much in the way of improvement. When you're ready to spring $1300 or better to add an uncommon and really well made primitive replica to your battery, spend the money, because your preference is definitely collecting and not shooting. Incidentally, if you want a rarer bird, both Hege and Pedersoli sell a wonderfully well made replica of the Rogers & Spencer manufactured by Feinwerkbau. I’ve shot all three, I can’t complain about their quality, and they perform about as well as you could possibly expect from their configuration.
Then there are all the rest. Don’t mistake my comments for criticism – I’m talking about the products of friends and peers. The manufacturers of the Val Trompia know their market and fulfill very well. It’s not just stateside, either. Well made and not so well made replicas at economical price find their places in markets in Europe, the Americas more broadly, and Pac Rim. Their higher end products are made of good steel with proper hardening and with an attractive finish. A number of their innovations are thoughtful and well adapted to a balance between cost and functionality. At the upper end, their precision represents a bargain. If you’re after the ‘look’, buy one.
Again, there are good reasons why we choose not to go into specialties for Remington replicas. Allow an explanation I hope will not offend. In 1957, Ford made the pinnacle Y-block V-8. The Y-block was an OHV manifestation of flathead thinking. The T-Bird 312 was the limit (some say beyond!) of development of engineering very much superseded by the new thinking Chevrolet V-8. Chevrolet had no flathead thinkers in its engineering department in 1953. Ford introduced the 239 in ’54, Chevy the 265 in ’55.
Folks enjoy keeping old Fords churning. Y-blocks were made in Ford plants until ‘82. Folks enjoy getting performance out of small-block Chevrolets. Engineering makes performance, and performance favors Ruger.
Extreme ballistic performance in Remington replicas is a shaky proposition. One can’t know in whose frame a user is likely to try a high power load. That’s just plain scary.
As for extreme target accuracy – well, by the time you make a replica shoot even with a drop-in Classicballistx/ROA, you will have spent a lot more for a gun that won’t endure many seasons. If you’re shooting blackpowder pistol at silhouette with the requisite high accuracy/high terminal performance loads, you can exclude everything but ours.
Apart from all said so far, my friends in the Val Trompia (where all replica guns are made, including the so-called Colts) have fully depreciated capital equipment, a material and labor price advantage, and a distribution network already making the pieces for Uberti, Pietta, et al. That's why you can buy plain replacements from Dixie for $60.00. We do a different thing.
Now to a phenomenon and what we are going to do with Colts.
You have an affinity for the Navy Colt. It’s understandable. That gun’s ‘fit/feel’ is the basis for the most successful single actions – the 1873 Colt and all its successors – including Ruger’s. The only real departure ever made in that vein was Colt’s 1912 Bisley and it was just followed a trend of double-action design. More in a minute.
I spent a few hours with some of the best Ruger hacks out there this past weekend discussing Classicballistx. Apart from basic and advanced cylinder stuff, the attention getter was what I’m doing for ROA ‘fit/feel’. My answer (a little different from the Colt SAA/ROA grip adaptation) is to replicate the 1860 Army Colt for the ROA. They agreed.
Have you ever shut your eyes and gone back and forth between Army and Navy Colts or between an 1860 and a Peacemaker? I did, and the answer for me is the 1860 Army. When I got done with my 1860/ROA prototype, I also came to the same conclusion in comparing it to my Bisley/ROA prototype, though in a different way. Both Bisley and Army Colt grip frames fitting the ROA are targets for 2008 introduction. Plenty of us don’t have miniature hands and both of these patterns are more comfortable for heavy recoiling high performance shooting than the SAA/Navy Colt, the Remington, or the OEM-ROA. And so that you know I’m not immune to good looks, I think this makes the finest looking gun imaginable. So did my counterparts.
Well, you might have expected a one word answer and not an essay, but here ‘tis. I know you want a Navy, but can I suggest you go to page 187 of the current Brownell’s book? You’ll find a better mousetrap. If you want the lighter feel of the Navy, think about smithing a barrel for your ROA. If that’s not enough, get back to me and we’ll talk about real gunfighter work for your ROA. You’ll never look back and you’ll have something that’s going to provide really great shooting in a gun that will express your personality for a lifetime. And you can do it for less than what you’ll pour into a string of replicas that will never really measure up.
Regards,
Wisent
