"clip" versus "magazine" - word usage matters?

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Bill_Rights

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For several reasons, I think it is important for us gun owners, sellers, users and lovers to use technical terms properly, especially in this time of renewed activity by the anti-2A and gun-grabber folks.

One reason I think this, and perhaps the main reason, is that a classic tactic of the Left is to define, redefine or co-opt the meaning of words, thereby controlling the "terms" of a debate, literally.

As evidence of this, I see several sellers of firearms on GunBroker.Com using the term "clip" relating to products that clearly only use hand-stuffed magazines. This is evidence of a) the news media and politicians bombarding us with the word "clip" and then b) some of us succumbing to their suggestive leading and starting to use the term "clip" instead of "magazine", where we would not have used the word "clip" a year ago. Why do we modify our thinking and speech like this? Dare I say, some of us are sheeple? :barf:

Contrarily, I think it is important to use words accurately, precisely and properly. The reason for this is to insist upon reality. Some say, 'in politics, perception is reality'. That may be, to some extent. But when we get to the fundamental right to self defense, we have departed the realm of politics and an are in the realm of pre-political rights. These are variously called natural rights, human rights, natural law and inalienable rights, among others. Allowing politicians to politicize pre-political matters is deadly. More serious than a heart attack. Allowing them to change reality by redefining real words is a form of them claiming authority to regulate, control, ban, confiscate, etc. That is, by allowing reality to be changed by virtue of them changing the meaning of words is tacit ceding, by us, of the authority, to them, to control reality. Specifically to throw the cloak of their power over matters they clearly have no warrant to claim.

If the Left can control the meaning of words in this relatively trivial matter (clip vs mag), they will be able to do so in much more weighty matters. Some will be able to give innumerable other examples of redefinition of words, such as the word "marriage". This points up the fact that the Left also does the inverse: They change the thing itself but refer to it by an old/wrong/misleading word, especially a word that sounds good.

For the record (and please add/correct as necessary), here are the definitions:
(We have a little bit of a THR discussion on this going on currently.)

magazine: A holder of cartridges adjacent to the action of a firearm so as to provide ammunition for mechanically automatic loading into the firing chamber. (In this sense, a manually-powered bolt- or lever-action is automatic.) This could include internal magazines, drop box magazines, revolver cylinders, tubular magazines and several other form factors.

clip: A holder of cartridges for rapid insertion into a magazine, and also for storage, alignment, transport, sorting and so forth of cartridges.

ambiguities: Since some drop box magazines (DBMs) snap into the receiver/action, they make a clicking sound as they lock ("clip") into place.
 
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First, I do not think it proper to refer to a revolver cylinder as a magazine.

Second, clips are designed to facilitate the loading of cartridges into firearms--either into their magazines or into revolver cylinders. By the way, some clips are themselves inserted into the magazines while containing the cartridges, and some are not.

Third, while the distinction between a detachable magazine, either for a semi-automatic pistol or a repeating rifle, and a clip is interesting and conducive of terminological exactitude, not everyone has always adhered to the "proper" definitions, but there has been no harm. I have seen official War Department literature from the WWII era refer to Model 1911 magazines as "extra clips", and I have seen manufacturers' advertising media that referred to detachable box magazines for rifles as "clips", and while there are some who seem to develop gas pains from that, it has never bothered me at all, and I never attributed any such usage as the result of "control" by "the left."
 
I sense a new media-driven and politics-driven use of the word "clip". It may be accidental. It may be harmless. But I am sure I see otherwise knowledgable gun sellers on GunBroker changing their use of terminology in response. This I do not like.
 
Here we go again!

Purists insist that clips hold cartridges to be inserted into magazines, and that has become pretty much the standard contemporary usage.

How-some-ever, back in the day, gun ads included the terms "clip-magazine" and referred to, e.g., the Colt Gov't model using a "7-round clip."

Words do make a difference, and a law that bans "clips holding more than 10 rounds" would be subject to legal challenge by users of 20- or 30-round magazines.:scrutiny:
 
the more they dilute the meaning, the more territory it covers. it's a ''twofer'' outlawing my SKS clip and your Glock magazine, at the same time! Win-win for Bloomberg.
 
I've been taught, by experts in the field of weapons nomenclature, that they are the same, clip referring to a handgun; magazine referring to a rifle, or long gun.

So, I suppose we'd need to discuss the source of these terms. I also agree that it doesn't really matter.

Your definitions are complex enough that I'm guessing you just made these up in your head, or like me are just repeating what you've been taught in the past?

Where should this definition come from? Perhaps some legally enforced perspective?
 
''Your definitions are complex enough that I'm guessing you just made these up in your head, or like me are just repeating what you've been taught in the past?..''

have you ever seen as SKS being loaded? Those
are ''clips''. ever seen a magazine being loaded into an AR, or AK? That's a ''magazine''. I assure you, it's neither complex, or ''made up''.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...K8-u2AX68IHQDw&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQ9QEwAQ&dur=3484
 
So let me get this straight. Use of the word "clips" in place of "magazines" is a left wing conspiracy to...do what exactly?

I don't know about the left "defining terms" but how about we stop defining our selves as paranoid and delusional?
 
ever seen a magazine being loaded into an AR, or AK? That's a ''magazine''. I assure you, it's neither complex, or ''made up'

If your definition includes a revolver cylinder it's not only made up but dramatically wrong.
 
Word usage always matters, just as with polling. Re the latter, "he that sets the wording of a question can have significant impact on the answers obtained
 
I was in boot camp in 1976, and they made the difference abundantly clear. Do a few hundred pushups when you get it wrong, and I guarantee you'll remember. Don't ask me how I know.
 
I don't see the value of splitting hairs over this issue ("clip" versus "magazine"). Everybody knows what the antigunners mean when they talk about limiting magazine (or "clip") capacity. Nitpicking like this makes us seem petty, for no good reason.
 
So let me get this straight. Use of the word "clips" in place of "magazines" is a left wing conspiracy to...do what exactly?

I don't know about the left "defining terms" but how about we stop defining our selves as paranoid and delusional?
Thank you.

"Clip" for "magazine" is a purely rhetorical accident made as often by my very-pro-gun, ex-military, VERY-Conservative uncle far more often than my very liberal neighbor.

Pretty sure my uncle is ceding NOTHING to The Left. Ever.
 
Thank you all for the judicious comments.

Yes, I also was stumbling over the mental hurdle of calling a revolver cylinder a magazine. Then Kleenbore confirmed my doubt. AFDavis11 and BHP FAN did also. We could argue that point. OK; so I will argue that a revolver cylinder is NOT a magazine. The typical revolver cylinder IS also the firing chamber(s), so it does not fit my definition of a magazine.

By the way, as BHP FAN accused, yes, I did just make up my definition of a magazine off the top of my head. Later, I did look at other definitions. I am pretty close.

But back to the revolver cylinder as magazine issue, I realize now that I must have been thinking of rotary magazines for rifles. Here are some present-day ones. As I recall, rotary rifle magazines go back to the year 1900-1910 or so, appearing in some of Browning's early U.S. patents.

Fast-forwarding to the present day again, if I showed up at a crime scene in New York state holding one of these, H&R MOD.949 .22 REVOLVER -- HARRINGTON RICHARDSON 9-SHOT, I think the prosecutor would add another charge for violating NY's new 7-shot limit for magazines/clips. By the way, my dad has one of these dating from the 1940s with fake-pearl white plastic grips. The cylinder does detach for rapid swapping with a fresh cylinder, so it does have that attribute of a DBM.
 
on the revolver, I'd say you'd be better off with a Nagant seven shooter than the H&R 9 shot in New York, at least until the present law is over turned. My brother has one of those 9 shot H&R's and I must admit I was suprised at the quality and accuracy.
 
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Excellent point. That revolver issue would have been my next question. Will 8 shot revolvers be legal in New York? Now, I'm still a tad uncertain about your concern, beyond the revolver cylinder.

Can you provide an imaginary, or real life, example that would illustrate your concern?

Based on following the intent of your definition, would references to a "clip" every really come up?

Just for clarity, I am the one that inferred that you made up the definition.

I noticed in reviewing State laws on the definition that New York uses the term "magazine" while Washington uses the term "clip".

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/PEN/THREE/P/265/265.00

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.010
 
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Detachable Box Magazine is the correct nomenclature.
A clip holds ammunition to facilitate loading either a detachable or fixed box magazine or a weapon hopper feed.
It isn't rocket science and it torques me a bit when people get one confused with the other.
 
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