Close Call

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PapaG

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I work in a gun shop. Mom and pop store with some good stuff. We allow a pretty lenient trade in allowance, charge a fair price for "transfers" and appraise guns and mount scopes for free, even if not bought here. I've had a policy of gently "adjusting" the direction of guns away from me or anyone around me when the customers point them the wrong way. Today I about lost it.

Guy comes in. "I got a rifle I want to trade." He sets the case down, unzips it, pulls the rifle out and hands it to me, muzzle pointed right at my sternum. I gently push the muzzle aside, take the rifle, rack the bolt (semiauto) and a live round pops out and onto the counter. He says, "oh, it had a shell in it." I said, "no, it had a live round in it and you pointed it right at me." I handed the gun to my boss and told both of them I was going to the back room before I did something they both would regret.

I think I average a half-dozen "point at me's" a day, always redirecting the muzzle toward the off wall, away from anyone in the store. No one ever has complained, most looking sheepish and saying, "sorry".

This one about put me over the wall. Pull it out, point it directly at someone...holding it by the pistol grip...don't think his finger was on the trigger...and then....NO apology, no real shock, just, "oh, it had a shell in it." Later, I heard him tell the boss, "gee, I was driving around with a loaded gun..could I have got in trouble?"

I really wanted to pound him into the floor. Instead, I went in the back room and calmed down. Came out and he was gone. Thank God for two things...he didn't have his hand on the trigger and I held back rather than doing what I really wanted to do.
 
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Scary stuff . no one likes having a firearm pointed at them. sounds like you handled things correctly, especially if you felt you where loosing your cool . better to walk away, than have an "Incident". Some people walk around in a little bubble.. completely oblivious to safety.
 
A posted sign in a local gun shop

Gun Etiquette Is Observed In This Shop.
And then the simple "1, 2, 3, 4..." of the classic Rules are written out. The Gun shop owner is savvy and serious about the rules, but he still wears armor in his shop. The only levity he allows is his own, and this is an example. When picking up a piece from behind the glass, he ALWAYS racks the slide and examines the chamber, drops the magazine (if an auto) and hands it to the shopper. He expects the shopper to ditto all of his actions thus far. As the shopper performs the check, proprietor drops a live round he has palmed, onto the counter glass, and in mock shock says, "Wow How could I have missed that ?!" And then breaks into a nice grin, and having broken the ice, he continues into the sale. This is GOOD practice, because I have seen the entire shop swept by an unconscious customer. THAT never happens twice with the same customer. DAO
 
On your part, You did a great job by holding back.
On his part, No so much.

In my mind, If your gonna own a gun, Any kind at least know the four rules. Especially always treat a firearm as if it was loaded which in this case it was. Of course had he slipped....Well....You get the idea.

Glad you came out ok, Nonetheless
 
Had the same thing happen in reverse awhile back. Guy took a gun in on consignment, I asked to see it and when I racked the slide out pops a live round. Drop the mag and its full too. Just glad it was me and not someone else who picked it up first.
 
That is bad, also what kind of guy doesn't shoot his ammo for said gun before trading or selling.What are the state laws where you are. Because I know in Vermont it is illegal to have a loaded long arm in a vehicle.
In gun shops around here some costumers have bad safety sense, I just walk over to the surplus while they are looking at the ARs.
 
I have been to some gun shops and when I asked to see something in the gun case,the person working there would sweep me with the gun I wanted to see.I just don't understand why so many people make these stupid mistakes?
 
In 1966 I went through armorer/supply clerk school at Ft Lee, Va. Out of thirty two students, two were shot by uncleared weapons stateside during turn in. One dead, one out of the service. At least 1 more died Vietnam from same stupidity. As newest man in company in Berlin, I went ballistic when an E7 threw an M14-A1 at me across the arms room turn in window. I shut arms room, left the men in the turn in line standing there, and took the rifle in and laid it on the First Sgt desk. He sent for the E7 and the CO came out. E7 cleared weapon of magazine and on clearing bolt, live round went asross orderly room. E7 peeled off shirt, peeled off shirt stripes, and apoligised to me there and later privately. All told in three years as armorer i had 7 weapons turned in with live ammo. I am still so paranoid that I check every weapon, especially mine, for live rounds EVERY time I pick it up or put it down. That means finger into the reciever bore instead of just looking. I have had people tell me I am over cautios, on the other hand, I have never been told that by a professional.
Check every weapon, every time, live long and prosper.

blindhari
 
I know it is not a solution to poor gun handling but maybe you could get your employer to set up a clearing barrel or get a bullet trap just for this situation. A clearing barrel is easy to fix up. Use a 30 - 55 gallon drum put enough sand in it to fill it about 3/4 full. Now build a frame so that the barrel is tipped over to about 45 - 60 degrees. It may not stop people from bringing in their guns loaded but it may stop the bullet should the gun be fired during the inspection process. Who knows it may even reduce your insurance premiums. You see a potential hazzard and are trying to aleviate it.

BTW there are commercially made bullet traps out there that do the job very well. The police force I work for has 2 of them stationed at certain locations. We can't take our duty weapons home so there is a lot of loading and unloading during shift change.
 
i use to go to 4 of my area stores almost weekly just 'looking'. usually on a Saturday cause that was part of my working routine. in the past couple of years i have been swept or aimed at more than the past 40 years together.
now i chose to go only if there is something i am specifically looking for. and i do it mid week after 2pm...there quiet time.

besides the small but always present group of non-savvy gun owners (...my dad left this) there is the current large new group i call the entitled. they have wants and don't need facts or knowledge. if you have a problem with them, its you problem cause they know that they are always right. after all, their parents and teachers have told them that all their lives. they tend to cluster between 25 and 35 years of age.
 
In the world of averages a thing must happen a certain number of times before a different thing than normal happens. Out in the world with weapons and firearms the number of times a weapon or firearm will be pointed directly at you should be real low. Working in a gun shop it will be real high. I suggest you have zero tolerance for this lack of following the gun commandments. Post what the rules are right on your entry door and do not forgive the few to experience the one that will kill you "by mistake."
 
In case you haven't figured this out already, the "publilc" is an idiot. Period.

I've been going to gun shows for about 50 years now, and in that time I've been swept more times than I care to think about. In a gun shop, there's no excuse for it. But the average gun owner is pretty careless, so you have to assume they are going to sweep you.

My answer to this is when I'm at a gun show, I am ALWAYS prepared to push a muzzle away from me as soon as someone picks it up at a table. When I have my guns displayed, I always tie the action open and use a chamber flag on my own guns. I can't control others. Therefore, as I stated, I am always prepared to push the muzzle away.

Maybe you could try to intercept firearms coming into the shop and quickly ask the guy if he has cleared the action yet. Maybe post a sign (a big one) that states all guns must be cleared before being brought into the shop, and have a clearing barrel right at the door. This, however, assumes they can read. IMO you did the right thing, by the way.
 
This kind of ties in with the other thread about people being too stupid to have guns- the problem isn't stupidity as it is carelessness and irresponsibility. Glad to know you're OK and didn't blow your top.
Perhaps the solution to this is to have a policy of guns that come in for sale or trade should always be cased, and the case needs to be opened by the shop employee, not the customer, or customer opens only the case, and does not handle the gun. I did this recently when I traded a gun- opened the soft case, but I let the employee handle it first. This seems to be an appropriate form of etiquette for selling/trading a gun, as far as I'm concerned. I know it may seem like an accusation of gun owners of being irresponsible in general, but I think this is a way of maintaining a level of professional courtesy and safety at the same time, and hopefully could prevent incidents like the one you had.
 
I think the idea of wearing armor is a reasonable one. I don't know enough to know whether a vest would do any good against a rifle round at cross-counter range, but I don't imagine it would hurt. Talk with your boss about it. He could write the purchase off as a business expense, and it might help lower his insurance premiums too.

Josh
 
I went to a pawn shop once where some guy had come in with a loaded and COCKED .38 revolver. He claimed that he did not know how to unload it. He had just left and everyone there, customers and employees were a little bit shaken up.
 
I've seen this typical situation here in Texas. Big beer belly somewhat arrogant dude brings in expensive rifle with expensive scope for it annual cleaning just before deer season. And the thing is still loaded with a live round from the previous deer season.

Pop the round out and give him the stink-eye and he says something like that's why one treats all firearms like their loaded. What? Is he kidding me.
 
This is why I can't work in a gun shop. By the end of the day I would probably wind up punching someone for pointing a loaded gun at me.

The first time I ever knowingly had a loaded gun pointed at me was at a trap shoot. Lady to my left calls, birds fly (doubles) and nothing.... calls, birds, nothing... this happens several times to the point where she's just pulling the trigger without even calling for birds, then she rotates 90 degrees to her right and points the gun at my chest while inspecting the action and pulling the trigger. I was scared stiff. I literally stopped breathing and couldn't do anything. Luckily someone else started yelling at her to point the gun down range.

I found out a few minutes later that she had two live rounds in the gun and had just left the safety on. One click of a safety and an idiot gun owner who didn't know how to use her own gun saved me from taking two rounds of trap shot to the chest. And she didn't even apologize.

After that I decided then that the next person who points a loaded gun at me is either getting shot or is going to the ground and leaving on a back board. No, its not very high road, but neither is putting people in fear for their lives by pointing loaded guns at them.

To be fair my reaction would be a little less drastic if I was in a gun shop where the gun isn't supposed to be loaded, but I would very likely still wind up hurting them.

I think the idea of wearing armor is a reasonable one. I don't know enough to know whether a vest would do any good against a rifle round at cross-counter range, but I don't imagine it would hurt. Talk with your boss about it. He could write the purchase off as a business expense, and it might help lower his insurance premiums too.
Click to expand...

Soft armor (kevlar etc) does not protect against rifle rounds. They are simply too fast. A good IIIA vest would protect against almost any pistol round, but you would need rifle plates to protect yourself against a rifle round. I'd probably go with a SAPI plate or a Level IV myself, but that's more up to the guy wearing it. The problem with rifle plates is even with the "concealable" carriers, people are still going to know you're wearing them unless they're under a jacket.

Also, to get a set of front and back plates, you're looking at between $300 and $600 depending on which ones you go with for EACH person who wanted to wear them. You could go with steel plates which are cheaper, but they are also heavier, and I definitely wouldn't want to be in a sales position with any type of plates on, much less steel!
 
Scary. Lots of morons out there. Maybe you can get the shop owners to implement a policy where only store personnel are allowed to take a gun out of the case/box/whatever. That way someone who knows what they are doing can verify it is unloaded.
 
I know a great guy who used to work at my LGS, with a daily procession of stress-inducing , unsafe people. Now he manages a beach shop and looks 10 years younger. Go figure....
 
I make an effort to point the gun away from anyone, check it again even after the LGS employee has.

Usually this gets better information out of the seemingly disgruntled LGS old man that is helping me.
 
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