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Cluelessly bought an upper.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Mn Fats, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    Lots of AR love and good advice.

    The PSA Lower is fine for your first AR.

    Sights; I received a SIG Romeo5 from PSA Friday. As it was our first weekend without rain I had too much work to get done outside to put it on a AR and go shooting. I am impressed with how small and light it is. IMO it is a Best Buy for $119.00.

    However I mistrust batteries so a set is pop-up “iron” sights are a must for me. Magpul is a good choice for back-up sights that won’t break the bank.

    AR’s are fun and addictive. Oh not to mention it is easy to change parts so don’t knock yourself out over your choices. You will be changing them anyway.

    So far on my first AR I have changed the BCG, trigger group, rear stock and the flash hider. But it is not money misspent as the parts I have taken off have or will find them used on other builds. I plan on putting the SIG Romeo5 Red Dot sight on it but there is no way of how long it will stay on these particular gun. (A little mouse is whispering in my ear that I should buy another Romeo5 while they are on sale as I have a daughter that likes AR’s and has already claimed one of mine for herself).
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  2. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Sounds like you got a very good deal then.

    Regarding the BCM lower versus PSA lower...personally, I have no beef with PSA. i have one of their pencil barrel uppers with BCG's I bought during the last Black Friday sale and it has run flawlessly. After mounting it on a Mega lower and running a few hundred .223 Wolf Gold through it, I put a CMMG .22 conversion bolt in it and now it's my dedicated .22 LR AR training rifle. Again, runs flawlessly.

    BUT...I will give you two reasons to consider putting a BCM lower on it. First, if you ever decide you want to sell your AR, you will sell it much faster, and will get a better resale price on it if you put a BCM lower on it. That is a fact. Most mis-matched guns run fine, but a matched upper and lower will almost always be an easier sell and command more money. Personally, I will not buy a second hand "home built" rifle, and any rifle that is mismatched is suspicious to me.

    Second, I truly believe you get what you pay for. BCM is a warfighter/gunfighter grade firearm, and their reputation is extremely solid...subjectively on par with Colt, Daniel Defense, and Knights Armament. They do NOT skimp on the "little bits" like screws, springs, extractors, or materials. PSA is decent stuff, but it's NOT BCM. IMO, if you only own one AR, it should be a "service grade" firearm.

    If course, lots of folks have only one AR, maybe a PSA, or a Spikes, or a Windham, and it runs fine for them. More power to them, and their AR's will likely give them long and excellent service. But you are already 2/3's of the way there (Upper, BCG/Charging Handle, Lower). Why put cheap, lower quality tires on your vette?

     
  3. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

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    I did the same. Saw an upper that I just couldn't do without. Then had to figure it all out like you're doing. Since then 4 more, but all from scratch.

    Welcome to the AR side.
     
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  4. Mn Fats

    Mn Fats Member

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    I've been reading up on BCM uppers on other forums. Seems they aren't particularly known for accuracy. Some complaints. Can anyone confirm that first hand?
     
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  5. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Luke

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    That’s accurate from what I know. They are 1.5-2 MOA guns. They are more built for reliability above all else. It’s hard to get pinpoint accuracy out of chrome lined barrels. Not saying it isn’t possible just hard.

    But BCM is a very good build, don’t be disappointed, just build another upper for accuracy:D
     
  6. sevt_chevelle

    sevt_chevelle Member

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    Compared to what?
    BCM is hands down one of the best rifles one can buy. They are a service grade rifle. Are BCM barrels as accurate as my AR costing 3K with a 350 plus WOA barrel nope, but it is as accurate as my Colt 6920.
    If memory serves me right, BCM has FN spec out their barrels, once again you would be hard pressed to find a better service grade barrel maker then FN.
     
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  7. Mn Fats

    Mn Fats Member

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    Even with match ammo? 2 is terrible imo. Depending on the gun of course. And it's an autoloader. But my FN BAR 30-06 shoots MOA with decent factory ammo.

    It seems the premium or hype of the BCM should produce sub MOA. Is it the chrome lining that messes with the accuracy?
     
  8. Mn Fats

    Mn Fats Member

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    It was being directly compared to the Colt LE6920.
     
  9. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    According to the Internet my PSA budget rifle I built myself should not be able to shoot tighter groups than ones costing three times as much.

    Quit talking yourself into buyers remorse. Complete your build, get several different brands of ammo and hit the range. When you come back with that big grin on your face we will know you have become a addict.
     
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  10. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Luke

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    BCM if I recall correctly uses Machine gun steel that has been hard chromed. If you bought the upper for pinpoint accuracy, that is not the brand upper I would have chosen.

    If you bought it for an upper that will last longer than almost all others, with quality parts that will make it through several carbine courses without fail, and is the quintessential go to war upper, you have one.

    Just a different focus. I’m not saying that 1.5-2 MOA is what you’ll experience, I was just stating don’t be surprised if that is the case.
     
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  11. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Unless your BCM upper is the 18” SS model, you should get serviceable accuracy with decent ammo. By “serviceable”, I’m talking 1.5 - 2 MOA.

    The 18” SS barrels are generally more accurate, and costly.

    You want sub MOA, buy a White Oak Armament upper. Your upper is built for longevity and reliability first and foremost. It’s made to deal with bad guys without fail. Can it fail? Sure, but if you keep it well lubed, it should run 8000-10000 rounds through it with zero maintenance or cleaning. Period. Keep it “wet” with oil on the BCG every several hundred rounds and you will probably not see a failure for many thousands of rounds.

    With a good optic and ammo, you should be able to hit a torso size steel plate out to 600 meters...maybe further if you can do your part.

    That’s the reality of the upper you bought.
     
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  12. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Given a choice between a Colt, a BCM, or a DD, the Colt, a great AR, would be my last choice.

    Paul Buffoni and Marty Daniels both make better guns IMO
     
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  13. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    This is the quintessential story of the “hype” behind BCM guns. RIP Pat Rogers!

    https://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/
     
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  14. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Try some of this ammo...it’s quite accurate and runs flawlessly in my ARs...

    https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-...2-gr-magtech-first-defense-tactical-ammo-556b
     
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  15. Mn Fats

    Mn Fats Member

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    Very helpful, thank you.
    Also good advice. To be honest, I don't what I'm doing here. It's just a "platform" I know nothing about.

    Someone said only accurate rifles are interesting. I agree. I figured if I picked up a "boutique AR" I wouldn't have to worry about accuracy issues. Some BCM owners are complaining about the accuracy. Maybe I made a mistake. Or maybe it's a small sample of complaints.

    Either way, I have the BCM upper. Now I'll buy the complete PSA lower and try out AR-15's for the first time.
     
  16. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    You never know until you shoot it, but I doubt you'll end up disappointed with the end result.

    My $450 Delton AR shot 2-3 MOA with iron sights and bulk ammo the first time I sighted it in. I had brought an SKS to sight in along with it, and the AR just made it look silly. Your BCM upper is no-question a league above that Delton.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  17. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    The BCM upper will deliver service rifle grade precision with service rifle grade ammunition which costs about $.37 a round. That means it will deliver 2-3 moa ten shot groups. Now, you could get all gloomy because your AR is only a 2-3 moa rifle, but what are you gonna do? You could spend big money on a match barrel, but unless you shoot match ammo that costs $1 a round or more, your AR is still only gonna get 2-3 moa. It won't take you long to figure out that for the same money it costs to shoot a 1 moa AR, you can shoot three times as much with a 2-3 moa AR.

    Buy a bunch of magazines and a pile of blaster ammo and go shoot your AR.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
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  18. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    To each their own...

    Only shooting “Accurate rifles” means missing out on too many fun guns IMO. You’d never get the fun of shooting old lever action Winchesters, most ARs, any AKs, mini 14’s, etc.

    Nothing wrong with shooting sub MOA single shot or bolt guns from a bench, but it is, by definition, limited.
     
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  19. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    A BCM which won’t shoot better than 2-3moa with proper ammo is defective in some major way. Feed it junk, guess how it’s gonna shoot. But give it a good meal, it should break under 1.5moa with a proper optic. Recognize, a 3-4moa red dot or iron sights may not be the proper sight for you to eek out every drop of accuracy potential either.

    Only accurate rifles are interesting. - Townsend Whelen
     
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  20. rust collector
    • Contributing Member

    rust collector Contributing Member

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    Because negative reports elicit the greatest sympathy and, in some people's minds, make one sound wiser, those are mostly what one encounters on the internet. With ARs, if you start with trouble-free, you can dial in accuracy with ammo choice, part upgrades, and shooting experience.
     
  21. cougar1717

    cougar1717 Member

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    BCM definitely sells both great AR's and hype. They manufacture great rifles/uppers in terms of build quality, reliability, and test firing. The hype part is that the everyday AR buyer needs an upper that is milspec (with aftermarket accessories, of course) and could run on a full auto lower. They do sell to the aspiring "gunfighter" and are more than willing to sell branded foregrips, CH, grips, and other operator accessories.

    People do complain about their accuracy. I get it. If you're sinking $1,000 in just an upper, shouldn't it be sub-moa? That's not their niche. While it depends on what upper you're choosing, it's more on the function end than the accuracy end, no different than a Glock vs a Kimber. What I'm about to say is flameworthy, I know, but I literally do have a DPMS upper that shoots consistently smaller groups than a BCM upper. It's true. Which one would I choose if I could only have one, it would be the BCM.

    BCM's longest barrel length option is 20". They don't chase the newest AR caliber.

    If the expectation is that a chrome lined barrel of any manufacturer will attain sub moa accuracy, you will be disappointed. There's lots of information concerning the general accuracy of the different barrel types for AR's out there.
    I would agree from experience that the general expectation for a chrome lined barrel, would be over 1.5 moa, but under 3 moa.
     
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  22. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    Mn Fats, you pulled off a good hustle :)
     
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  23. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Luke

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    Yup, nailed it.
     
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  24. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    I carried my BCM for duty for a long time. It has always worked, and I trust it to work when my life is threatened.

    I have others from Anderson, Del Ton, PSA, DPMS, Stoner, Bushmaster, Colt etc. assembled as brand-complete guns and also as “frankenguns” that I put together that I like to play with. Do they shoot well? Yes. But I don’t trust them to the extent I do the BCM.

    You have a very good upper that will do just about anything you ask of it. I, too would avoid a “frankengun”, or a mish-mash of parts and makers, and get a BCM lower to make it a complete rifle. Should you decide to sell (I doubt it!) your pocketbook will take a bit less of a hit if it’s all BCM than a mish-mash set up.

    Just my 2c worth, take it as you see fit :).

    Stay safe.
     
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  25. BigBL87

    BigBL87 Member

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    Another thing to consider re: accuracy is if you aren't happy with the accuracy, it's not insanely difficult to swap out a barrel (or not insanely expensive to have a gunsmith do it for you since you aren't super familiar with the platform). There are plenty of AR barrel brands that are known for accuracy, Ballistic Advantage for example comes with a sub MOA gurantee with match ammo and their barrels are pretty reasonably priced.

    I wouldn't suggest swapping a barrel right of the bat by any means, my first upper on my PSA had one of their FN made chrome lined barrels and it shot right about MOA to my surprise. I haven't shot it enough with the Freedom upper I swapped out (sold the other one to my father-in-law on the cheap to complete his AR) to really gauge its true potential, gotta rezero the scope soon and put it through its paces.
     
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