CM Followers and Wolff Springs

[ColColt]

Up until now I had mostly taken several of these mags to the range and loaded a full 7 round mag with the slide open and no problem. I hadn't had the need for an instance of inserting these mags fully loaded into either the SW1911SC or Commander with the slide closed but decided to use one as a HD pistol and that's when I found I can't get the magazine in with the slide closed...no way, no how will it press all the way in. Oddly enough, the flat follower that comes with the GI mag will work but not the ones with the CM skirted follower. I found that strange in that the GI follower has a longer rear leg and yet the CM follower(skirted and dimpled) is shorter in back but it won't work with a slide closed. An 8 round CM mag with the XP spring will not work as well.

Could it be the XP Wolff or CM spring won't work with the CM follower? I thought they should mate together and work fine and as for feeding there great but you can't get the full mag in with the slide closed.

 

[rcmodel]

Sounds like the spring is too long (too many coils) and is stacking solid with no room left for further compression to put it in the gun.

You could try clipping off one coil and see if you still have enough spring tension left.

rc

 

[ColColt]

It has 13 coils and I understand that's what a 7 round mag should have but, the spring is strong make no mistake. I believe 1911Tuner recommended this spring in one of his write ups. If it doesn't fit with the CM follower, I don't know what will. It looks very much like their "XP" spring with the same amount of coils.

 

[1911Tuner]

If you're trying to use the Wolff 11-pound spring with Check Mate's "Bull Nose" follower, it won't work. That spring is compatible with standard 7-round followers. It has too many coils for 8 rounds.

The CMI follower uses a proprietary spring. Wolff's 8-round +5% "Extra Power" spring may be compatible. Call Check Mate and see what they recommend.

 

[ColColt]

When you say standard 7 round follower you're talking about the flat, dimpled follower they use with the GI mag? I think that's the only two they have...either their "bull nose" follower or the GI. The GI follower would work with all the three styles of magazines. That is the Hybrid, wadcutter or GI, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[ColColt]

Hmmmm...I guess I must have been right.

 

[1911Tuner]

When you say standard 7 round follower you're talking about the flat, dimpled follower they use with the GI mag? I think that's the only two they have...either their "bull nose" follower or the GI. The GI follower would work with all the three styles of magazines. That is the Hybrid, wadcutter or GI, if I'm not mistaken.

Sorry. Just saw this.

Yes. Those are the only two followers they make. Either follower will work in any of their magazines. The Bull Nose follower is designed for an 8-round magazine and is compatible with the spring designed specifically for it. The 7-round follower is compatible with the Wolff 11-Pound/7-round spring. The springs are not interchangeable. If you've mated a Wolff 11-pound spring with a Bull Nose follower...there's where your bug nests.

CMI also makes an extended length 8-round magazine that uses the Bull Nose follower. It, too takes a special spring. I don't know if they offer the extended magazine with a standard follower.

 

[ColColt]

This gets a bit confusing as they do make a 7 round mag with hybrid lips and their (CMF) follower with the skirt. It's indicated coming with a "high performance spring". That same follower also comes with 8 round mags if you desire.

http://www.checkmatemagazines.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=11&idproduct=26

I think my problem is I've tried to stuff a Wolff 11# spring in a 7 round hybrid mag with the CM bull nose follower and it don't work as you mention. It gets all bunched up. Bottom line, I was curious as to whether their "high performance " spring is comparable to the Wolff 11# springs.

One of my concerns was due to my SW1911SC having an alloy frame and wasn't 100% sure if the standard (non bull nose) 7 round follower could tip forward and scratch the feed ramp. I know the Devel type can but this one is a bit different.

 

[1911Tuner]

The "Hybrid" part describes the feed lips. The mating of the tapered "Hardball" lips with the slightly later timed release point of the "Wadcutter" design. It has nothing to do with the magazine's capacity.

It's the follower that has to be be compatible with the spring.

If the follower is the standard 7-round sheet metal type, and you've used the Wolff 11-pound spring, there's no reason that the full magazine won't lock into the gun with the slide in battery unless you've installed the spring upside down or the top loop isn't seated correctly under the follower.

If you tried to use the Wolff spring with the Bull Nose follower, it can't fit into the confines of the skirts, and that's what is causing your problem.

If you use the standard follower with the correct spring, you won't have any problems with your alloy frame. Assuming proper installation, the follower is firmly stabilized and can't move forward and hit the feed ramp.

The follower damage in alloy frames started with the Kelsey/Devel design that didn't allow the spring to nail the follower solidly to the rear wall of the magazine body. You'll recognize it in the McCormick Shooting Star magazines. I've heard that Chip finally threw in the towel and has started using CMI's skirted followers in his 8-round magazines.

 

[ColColt]

Tuner-I have to get up before the chickens(4:30am) so I'm just getting back after work today. I think what may have happened is I got the Wolff spring bunched up in the mag well figuring it "just had to go" using the CM follower-it just didn't feel right, though. It was in their properly just too much spring for the CMF type follower, size wise.

I understand the Hybrid and GI lips but, I thought I could use the Hybrid mag with the CM "patented follower", as they call it, along with the 11# Wolff spring...nope, a definite no go.

One lingering question remains. Suppose at the range tomorrow I use the GI and the Hybrid mags with the proper springs and followers and I get a 3 point jam(happened once before)? Is this not a spring issue? I know the extractor isn't too tight as I've tested that. I'm assuming either mag should work well with either the 230 gr hard ball or 230 gr GDHP ammo I'm taking and hoping that will be the case.

 

[1911Tuner]

Suppose at the range tomorrow I use the GI and the Hybrid mags with the proper springs and followers and I get a 3 point jam(happened once before)? Is this not a spring issue?

3-Point Jams are caused by the bullet nose hitting too low on the barrel ramp and pushing the barrel forward too soon. When it moves forward, it also moves up. If it moves up too early, it tries to enter the slide too early...and the lug corners crash with each other. The tapered feed lips can often help with a pistol with ramp geometry that has a tendency toward the misfeed and produces light 3-Points...sometimes referred to as "Stem Bind"...but it's not a cure-all for hard 3-Points. That's usually a feed and barrel ramp problem.

Improperly polishing the feed ramp can and does cause hard 3-Point Jams, which is why my standard advice for folks who own Dremels is to leave the feed ramp alone.

 

[ColColt]

I stir clear of feed ramps with a Dremel tool. I had a FTRTB issue today with a new CM mag but that's probably attributed to the standard spring. It has the GI lips and standard metal follower with dimple. I believe a change to the #11 spring will probably fix this and I have several on order. Other than that, no jams today out of 125 rounds, four magazines and two different pistols.

Thanks for the information and for those great write ups. I need to put a sticky somewhere to remember what all I've read! I feel confident it'll sink in.

BTW-The 230 gr GDHP's did well with the GI mag and flat follower as did the Hybrid's. My 230 gr LRN bullets did likewise.

 

[1911Tuner]

Excellent! Good shootin' Colonel.