1911 Malfunctioning

[ColColt]

I posted this problem on another forum and it's had 38 views but no suggestions. Maybe no one knows. At any rate, I did not have fun at the range this morning. I took my two favorite buds out for a run(XSE Commander and SW1911SC) to try different mags and loads and got several malfunctions with both. I got so disgusted I left early and didn't even finish the 200 rounds I'd brought with me.

The first problem was with the Commander. I had read of how the 7 round GI mag from CM was so highly lauded that I bought two. I loaded them up last night and tried them first thing at the range. The first seven went ok but the second time I got a nose straight up on the next to last round. Thinking it was just a fluke, I loaded another mag with five rounds, no problem. The next time I got the same jam again-straight up. I abandoned those two magazine in favor of the CM with hybrid lips and no further problem. This was with 230 gr hardball. I still don't know why the GI mag would have caused such a jam as it was more or less "made" for hardball.

Next up for malfunctions was the SW1911SC I had two early lock backs in five magazines using either GDHP's or Federal 230 gr HST. I don't think it was ammo related as it happened with the same mag-a Tripp Cobra. I don't now if that's the cause or whether it's the new EGW slide stop I put in a week ago. I suspect the slide stop.

Stil the same pistol, I had yet another problem, a double feed, sort of. With the next to last round using GD's and the CM hybrid mag, a jam occurred and looked like the last pic shown. There was one round left in the magazine and the nose was right against the feed ramp of the frame with the bullet on top just sitting there. It wasn't under mag spring pressure or even in the beginning of the throat. It was just laying on top the round in the magazine and in fact, I turned it upside down and the round just fell on the table.

It still blows me away that none of the 50 200 gr SWC's I shot with both guns using three different mags didn't cause nary a problem-only with hardball and hollow points. I don't know where to put the blame. The CM with hybrid lips did great with the Commander and didn't cause any jams with hollow points from the GD's or the HST ammo. The one problem the Commander had was with hardball and the GI mag.

This was the jam with the Commander using a CM with GI lips.



This is the jam with the SW1911SC.


This was not a good day. Aggravated I just came on home. Could an analysis of the photos and my description give you a hint as to where/what to do here?

 

[mjsdwash]

This is an odd one. All i can think of is a weak recoil spring or and extremely short oal, or a really screwy extractor. DId it work well before the CMI mags?

 

[cyclopsshooter]

Next up for malfunctions was the SW1911SC I had two early lock backs in five magazines using either GDHP's or Federal 230 gr HST. I don't think it was ammo related as it happened with the same mag-a Tripp Cobra. I don't now if that's the cause or whether it's the new EGW slide stop I put in a week ago. I suspect the slide stop.

look for copper rubs on the slide stop. it might be slightly oversized and catching on the bullets as they're coming up. as i recall the EGW parts are oversized so they can be smithed for custom fitting

I have a Commander XSE as well. I had a similar malfunction with mine. It was the 8rnd mags Colt supplied- I have been using Colt 7rnd mags ever since with no problem.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=620192

 

[Striker Fired]

Exactly^^^^.put your old stop in and see if the problems go away.

 

[ColColt]

The recoil springs in both pistols are new. In fact, I followed the advise of 1911tuner after reading the article on recoil springs and bought a 16# spring for the SW1911SC, rather than cut a government spring, to replace the factory one since it was a little hard to retract the slide. I don't think that was part of the problem, however. This same pistol does have(or did) the EGW slide stop since I didn't like the injection point for this MIM part-right where the link pin rode on it(see attached). The EGW was a real pain to get back in and not knowing exactly how to file it without screwing it up, I replaced it with a 10-8 Performance slide stop. It goes in easy without any idiot scratches. I did not have it until yesterday when I got back from the range, however since it hadn't come in the mail yet. There were light copper rubs showing on the stop but very slight. Nevertheless I had the week before lightly honed it with an Arkansas hard stone since I felt a little snag on it and it was smooth afterwards.

This was the original stop in the SW1911SC.


The Commander worked well last time I was at the range two weeks ago with SWC's, hardball and GDHP's. I don't recall the mags I had used with it as they all did well and I had no reason to take notes, but; it was at a minimum the CM's and Tripp Cobra Mags. I don't know what happened this time. It has the standard recoil spring. I've never had a malfunction like the one shown in ANY 1911 with hard ball. I've experienced stove pipes in years past with others but never one that stood nose up like that.

What puzzles me more is with the SW1911SC. There was one round left in the magazine and it had slightly moved forward and it was hard to tell due to the lighting at the range whether the nose of that round was up against the frame feed ramp or not but the puzzling part is why there was another round laying on top of it. No pressure on it, just lying there as if you dropped it in on top of the other. As mentioned, turning the pistol upside down it fell right out.

I've never used the Colt mags that came with the pistol-only Tripp and CM mags mostly. I had replaced the springs in the 7 round CM mags with a Wolff 11# spring and that's all I did to any of the mags...same followers.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

Really? Smith is using MIM Slide stops? sigh*

 

[1911Tuner]

The nose-up round is called a Bolt Over Base misfeed...and the problem is most often a weak mag spring.

Same issue with the loose round lying loose in the port on the Smith. You may have also noticed live rounds among your brass.

 

[ColColt]

1911Tuner-That jam with the Commander, I was using a CM GI mag but don't know the strength of the spring. I've never seen or had that sort of jam before-especially with a GI type mag with a dimpled follower. Perhaps changing the spring to an 11# Wolff would help? I have just received today a 7 round mag from Tripp. I intend on trying this one next time. May as well. It seems I've tried everyone elses.

As for the SW1911SC, the mag I was using when that jam occurred was the CM mag with their Hybrid follower. It does have the 11# spring. That one was the only round found since I'm in an indoor range shooting and picking up all brass. No live ones were found on the floor.

 

[243winxb]

Bend the lips of the magazine in.

The first problem was with the Commander. I had read of how the 7 round GI mag from CM was so highly lauded that I bought two. I loaded them up last night and tried them first thing at the range. The first seven went ok but the second time I got a nose straight up on the next to last round. Thinking it was just a fluke, I loaded another mag with five rounds, no problem. The next time I got the same jam again-straight up. I abandoned those two magazine in favor of the CM with hybrid lips and no further problem. This was with 230 gr hardball. I still don't know why the GI mag would have caused such a jam as it was more or less "made" for hardball.

 

[1911Tuner]

Perhaps changing the spring to an 11# Wolff would help.

Very likely.

As for the SW1911SC, the mag I was using when that jam occurred was the CM mag with their Hybrid follower. It does have the 11# spring.

Dunno. The round is escaping the magazine under recoil...setting up before the slide hits the frame and jumps when it hits it.

Bend the lips of the magazine in.

Oh, please don't.

 

[ColColt]

Bend the lips of the magazine in.

Oh, please don't.

No fear-no intentions of doing anything foolish. The only changes to either of these pistols from factory have been the slide stops on both (MIM on the SW) and the recoil spring to a 16# spring in the SW. That's it. I don't think either has had an effect on the malfunctions mentioned.

 

[Blue68f100]

Put your original setup back in and see if the problems clear..... Then change one variable at a time....

 

[ColColt]

Would installing the EGW slide stop and cutting a small radius on it help with functioning?

 

[rcmodel]

Cutting a small radius?
On a slide stop?

I hardly think so.

But then again, I haven't a clue what you are talking about.

rc

 

[ColColt]

I've got too many parts on my mind...meant to say firing pin stop.

 

[rcmodel]

O.K.
Without reading this whole thread again.

A recap is:
The square bottom EGW firing pin stops and recoil springs are the only two things you changed?
And now your guns don't work?

That right there seems like what we old amateur gunsmiths used to call a CLUE!!

Put the factory parts back in and try them.

Only if you still have a problem, do you still have a problem.

rc

 

[ColColt]

No you missed a couple things. I did not change the FP stop. I have it on order so I can change it later to hopefully aid in reliability...from all I understand about the function of changing out the factory stop. The only thing I changed was the slide stop on both pistols.

From what all I've gleaned, the problem most likely lies in the magazine(s) and or springs. I doubt the slide stop change has affected either of them. There are no brass rubs on the lobe of the 10-8 stop I replaced the originals with. The ETM I changed out on the SW needed some tuning work but I had a 10-8 stop for it too and just used it since it's easier to get in and out of the frame. Again, I'm inclined to lean toward the magazine/spring problem but will verify that next Friday.

 

[jdomin]

spring

i would change the springs before i started cutting or polishing any metal.

 

[orionengnr]

I'll leave the difficult stuff to Tuner...

..and give a try to the simpler S&W issue.

a) You have copper on the slide stop.
b) SWC ammo works.

That is a clue. The profile of the SWCs does not hit the slide stop and cannot cause the slide to lock open.

Put the original slide stop back in, run it for a while. If no problems, compare the profile of the EGW (or whatever aftermarket slide stop you want to use) to the original. (The part that had copper on it.)

Carefully file the aftermarket stop until it matches the original. Blacken that area with a Sharpie and try it again. Hand cycling two dozen rounds "might" even do the trick. If the bullet nose is hitting the slide stop, it will be apparent. Remove a little more metal and try again.

 

[Blue68f100]

The slide stop in my Kimber UCII was replaced for premature slide lock on certain profile bullets, 230gr RN. The replacement is only 0.010" thinner and profiled a little different so it does not to hit the bullets in the magazine. When this happen the bullet being stripped off the mag would move the lower bullet forward in the magazine. This forward movement of ~1/8" was making the bullet hit the slide stop bumping it just enough up to lock the slide.

 

[Old Shooter]

I've never used the Colt mags that came with the pistol

Why not?

You might want to try them once you get the guns back to original configuration to at least provide another data point if nothing else. My Commander functions 100% with a half dozen Colt mags and a couple of Wilson 47D mags. I've got three Chip McCormick Shooting Star mags and just one of them will give it fits every time I try to use it. That mag is sitting in my desk drawer now just because I hate to throw anything away.

 

[ColColt]

I took the XSE Commander out for another trial run today after replacing all springs in the 7 round mags with 11# Wolff springs and added an EGW FP stop and put a slight radius on it. I took one of the 8 round Colt mags and put in the Tripp 7 round spring kit with follower and these slight modifications made all the differnece as to the jamming problem.

I had three different mags, three different loads (230 gr GDHP and HST, 200 gr #68 SWC, and 230 gr FMJ. Not a single malfunction with any of the mags or with any of the ammo. Apparently it was the springs for the most part.

What I don't get is why manufacturers of magazines put in a strong enough spring to begin with so customers won't have to buy extra power springs in order for rounds to feed from their magazines? Had CM put their XP spring in the 7 round mags I had I probably wouldn't have had a reason to start this thread. Moreover, if Colt had CM put those springs in the two mags supplied by them they wouldn't have been a problem either.

The 8 round mag that came with the Commander(CM with the little "c" on the bottom of the base plate) did well with the Tripp spring kit but of course it converts it to a 7 round mag-no big deal. At any rate, it seems the problem has been solved(knock on wood). I'll put all this in my feeble memory bank if there's a next time.

 

[1911Tuner]

Tuner' Law:

With any feed problem, the first suspect is always the magazine. Always.