CMP Garand--Service, Field, or Rack?

Which Grade Garand?

  • Service Grade

    Votes: 78 81.3%

  • Field Grade

    Votes: 17 17.7%

  • Rack Grade

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Total voters
    96
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E

Eightball

Member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
4,257
Location
Louisville, KY
Another of my "simple questions". Next saturday, i'm driving to the CMP north store, with the intent if picking up a Garand or two. Only grades I've got money for are Service (I figure it's a good time to stretch the budget), Field, or Rack. Granted, I like everyone else don't want to blast all my money (don't have .30-06 ammo yet, so that's a consideration), but I want to get a good Garand before they are gone. For those of you with experience with any of the different grades, which would you suggest buying, for the price difference, shootability, etc? Which one is the most "worth it"? Thanks!
 
I've bought service and field grades, and bare receivers.

Just get the service grade if they have them and you can afford it. It's the best option for a shooter with little to no gunsmithing.
 
Get Service Grade if you can and walk it down from there.

Personally, I have a service grade already. I was considering getting a rack grade for parts and/or getting a professional rebuild done.

However, some have said that even rack grades can be good shooters. Be prepared with tools to evaluate the guns.
 
I'm on a college budget, and have no tools, so my "professional evaluation" of the rifles in question will be extremely limited. Anything in specific to look for? More advice on which grade to buy is VERY welcome (hint, hint).

It'll be a little while before I buy anything else; my only sense of urgency with this is the fact that soon, the CMP'll be running out of the "good" stuff.
 
I don't think you'll need any tools. The North Store has muzzle wear and throat erosion gauges that you can use. They also have cleaning rods so you can inspect the bore easier. They also have a knowledgeable and helpful staff.

They don't have bore lights or good lighting, so that may be something to take. If you don't have a bore light, a good flashlight will do, just open the bolt, put a clean patch in front of the bolt, aim the light at the patch while looking through the bore.

I like to take a flashlight and reading glasses. The lighting in the store is pretty bad, hard to see the various stampings in the wood & metal.

Take plenty of money. In addition to guns, they have lots of surplus ammo to buy.

Regards.
 
Don't pay attention to what the rifle is graded. Borrow a muzzle and throat gauge from the store staff and go down the line. I picked up a field grade on my last trip that had almost perfect metal with a barrel that gauged new and had a perfect crown on my last trip to the South store. It was graded field grade because of the wood whick I was going to replace anyway. Within the grade the individual rifles will vary greatly, some field grades would swallow the gauges and some looked unfired.

Let the gauges be your guide and you'll pick out a winner.
 
I hate to sound like an utterly unknowledgable gun guy, but what do the numbers on the gauges represent? Never used one, so for whatever else I know about firearms, it's a moot point if I don't know one from the other.
 
Great advice given here.

I bought the last of the Correct Grade, and am waiting for it now. The correct grade has all USGI parts for the rifles year of issue. It was $900. The expenditure did not concern me because it is a piece of history. And now the Correct Grade is sold out. My father-in-law carried one at Iwo Jima. I know I will shoot it a few times, but it means more than that to me.

And yes, you could likely find a better barrel than mine if you rummage through with gauges.

And also, you will be getting an autoloading rifle, with more snot and better accuracy than the ARs that everybody is buying - and for much less money. They also have Lake City ball and Greek ball. I've been told that the Greek ammo is what is used for the national matches. Grab a can or two. Remember, most commercial 30.06 exceeds the pressures that the M1 was built for. Careful what you feed it.
 
A couple more bits of advice for a North Store visit:

- Take latex gloves with you for inspecting rifles...they can be covered in cosmoline or grease.

- Take your own flashlight of bore light...the ones that the CMP staff provide are invariably low on batteries or dim!

Grab a muzzle gauge and start checking barrels! Have fun!
 
Using the gauges lower #'s are better. It basically tells how used the barrel is. The staff at the store will loan you the gauges and show you how to use them. Be sure to get one with an undamaged crown for best accuracy. Just inspect the metal and don't let bad wood throw you off, some of the stocks look like they were a pit bull's chewtoy.
 
Using the gauges lower #'s are better. It basically tells how used the barrel is. Be sure to get one with an undamaged crown for best accuracy.
Click to expand...
What numbers are good/bad/acceptable, and how do I check the "crown"? Forgive my stupidity:eek: , but I'm not wanting to take any chances. Thanks everyone for your help so far!!! Very informative on the "personal CMP" visit.

Actuallly, as another question--I've got all my paperwork with me, but I'm not "in their system" yet. Is there a problem for turning in this stuff when I arrive, or.....? I've qualified, but for some reason the idea of driving into the haven that is the CMP store gives me the jitters, and raises alotta inane questions.:eek:
 
You probably want to get below a 3 for the muzzle and a 3 or 4 for the throat, but many rifles with higher numbers shoot great, the lower numbers just have a better chance for accuracy and usually mean more rounds you can shoot before it will be necessary to rebarrel. The crown is the area at the end of the barrel where the bullet exits. Inspect for nicks and dings or any other irregularities, many will have wear from "butter churn" cleaning with the USGI steel cleaning rods. You want the crown to be smooth and even.

The staff is great and will walk you through it. Be sure to allow plenty of time, it flies by while you wonder up and down the racks. You can drop off the paperwork when you arrive so they can start processing it and you add the rifles as you pick them out. If you pick one out you can bring it to the counter and they will hold it for you while you look for another.

It is really worth the trip, I'm probably going back to the South Store next week and it is an 8 hour drive each way for me.
 
They'll loan the guages to you at CMP and you should just start at the cheapest end and work your way toward the most expensive. Find the cheapest gun with the best bore with the lowest numbers and get it. You can put some "love" in to it yourself and clean it up nicely. Dirt, dings and dints in the wood won't throw your shooting off, but they will put off a lot of buyers.
 
I don't think they'll have SG rifles on there.

I'm interested primarily in shooter rifles, so I look at the muzzle first. If it looks beat up, I keep going. I like MW2 or less. If I find one, I patch the barrel and take a look at the rifling. Expect some wear and pitting. I don't really worry about throat erosion. After that, I look at the receiver, especially wear points. If the original tooling marks are heavily worn, then I might pass it up. A nice stock is a bonus, as are interesting piece parts.

There were a couple of rifles there that had been recrowned last month--they still swallowed the MW gage. Feel free to ask the volunteers for help. It doesn't hurt to tell them what you are looking for.

Ty
 
CMP North.

1. Make SURE you have everything you need to buy a rifle. You MUST have birth certificate-(the newer official one, not one from the hospital or doctors office) or a passport, or whatever they say. Make sure this is squared away first. Call the CMP.

2. Make sure they are open the day you are going. They close for a bit after the National Matches.

3. Make sure you have most of the day to look.

4. When you get there, tell them that you are a personal friend of Kent Stonecipher from Oklahoma. Maybe Kent is even your uncle. Kent is tall and blackheaded and double distinguished. He's been there three times, during pistol Nationals, Rifle Nationals and one other trip so far this year. Tell them he told YOU that they might HELP you. (might, not WOULD)

5. Get the muzzle gauge. I wouldn't bother with the throat gauge.

6. Starting at the end of of the rack grade, start measuring muzzles. The gauge will dissapear into some, others will stop around the 2 1/2 mark. That's what you want or better. If the rifle gauges, set the buttstock up on the edge of the rack and move on. When you have gone down the rack you will have three or four rifles to go back an look at.

7. Go back to the first one. Look at the serial number. Pre 4 millions are WWII guns. Post 4.5 millions are post WWII or Korean guns. Just so you know. Some folks only want a WWII receiver and barrel.

8. Pull the bolt back and check the barrel maker and date on the right side of the barrel in the OP rod slot. Use the penlight folks told you to bring. It has the maker, (SA, HRA, et, the month and the year.)

9. Look at the trigger guard. The milled ones are the earlier, but in some opinions, the less desireable. The stamped and spring metal ones are later but correct for WWII guns. The spring ones can be bent a little to lock up tighter.

10. Close the bolt without chopping your thumb off. On the flat back end of the bolt will be the maker. BMG is berretta. You want an IH, HRA or an SA.

11. Look over the wood for mis-matches, splits, cracks, gouges, slotted repairs. There will be some but you don't want more damage than you can stand. Look on the left side at the back of the receiver for a cartouche. Look under the pistol grip for a P in a circle. If the rifle has peck marks near the receiver that's usually where a soldier beat the eight round clips to make sure the bullets were in the clip before he inserted it. The pecks are from the tips.

12. Keep sorting. If there is a broken stacking swivel or a bad piece, maybe even a split handguard on a rifle, or the wrong trigger you like take it to the guys at the desk and tell them Kent Stonecipher, your good friend or maybe even your uncle, said they might HELP. Do NOT say he said they WOULD do it or that they HAVE to do it. Use the word HELP.

Here it is verbatem: "Hey guys. My uncle Kent, who really wishes he could have been up here with me, said to ask you guys if I could get some help. This is really the rifle I think I want, but it's got a milled trigger and a broken off stacking swivel. Any way you guys could help me?"


In short, I go down the rack, picking out the better muzzles. Then I look the rifle over for manufacturing date of the receiver and the barrel. I check the bolt and trigger guard to make sure they are the ones I want. I look over the wood for trouble. If it's got something I think they might could fix, I ask for help and invoke the demi-god, Kent Stonecipher.

I buy two, at least, and maybe more. Put them on a credit card and transfer the balance to a 0% card for six months. Heck, get four and let Chase or Citibank, or Discover or one of those anti-gun, up-east financial companies float the gun boat until you can pay it off.

You might also look at buying a CMP stock. It's a nice stock. That frees you up to get really awful wood.

My experience is that if the barrel is good on the lower grades, the wood is awful. If the wood is good, the muzzle swallows the gauge or it has Italian parts. Take your time.

13. You aren't buying for resale, nor are you a gun dealer, but if you buy a personal collection of TWO, then after enjoying your collection for a while, you might decide to mix parts and sell the Garand that doesn't group as well. Any rifle you buy at CMP North for 425.00 will resale for 650 at any gun show, given a couple of tries.

Ok, now you know everything I know.
 
CMP Staff

CMP staff can seem laconic at best, stoic and perhaps indifferent at worst. Don't be discouraged. Especially don't be rude, impatient, demanding, beligerant, et, et.

They will answer any polite question. You have two ears and one mouth, so listen twice as much as you talk.

I try to channel a 64 year old duck hunter with a 12 year old lab waiting on the mornings first ducks. Alert, patient, cheerful.
 
Thanks for all the advice. I was thinking of mail order with my last comments. I might be making a road trip sooner or later to the South Store as a vacation. I appreciate the advice even though I am not sure I will buy a rifle.
 
1. Make SURE you have everything you need to buy a rifle. You MUST have birth certificate-(the newer official one, not one from the hospital or doctors office) or a passport, or whatever they say. Make sure this is squared away first. Call the CMP.
Click to expand...
"must have newer birth certificate, not from the hospital or doc's office"---if I got a copy of the original, notarized about 6 months ago, would that cut it? All things considred, I'm at a college not too far from the North store, can't really "adjust" any of the forms, and have nothing other than.....well, what I have, which is

1."CMP Gov.t surplus rifle sales program"/range firing certification sheet
2."CMP club member cert. form"--no affiliate number or anything (problem?), all else filled out. Read they give you a number the first time you buy a gun, or somesuch.
3.CMP Universal Order Form--complete as much as possible, at this point, and notarized.
4."State of XX--Certificate of Live Birth" copy (not the original), notarized in June.

I know these are just dumb questions, but I'm totally new to the CMP thing---dreamt about it, never done it before :eek: , so I'm just a little nervous--especially given the quote up top. Is there a "new" birth certificate from the .gov that I need and will postpone my purchase:uhoh: ?

Blackfork--Wow, you're thorough. Thanks. What are the pieces they ususally help out with--you mentioned the trigger guard, sling swivel and wood pieces.....? And, between Pre/Post-WWII, what would be the better quality firearm? I'm not in it for the "collector" value, I'm keeping this one.

And, I'm a member of the Safari Club International, and was reading on the CMP pages that "affiliate clubs get a 10% discount"--would that apply to me, or only if the club itself is buying the Garand?

Please, someone tell me all my worries are unfounded, and I'll wind up with one of the best rifle designs in the last 100 years come Saturday.
 
Pay close attention to the warnings about eligibility requirements since a friend of mine made a 3 hour drive without reading the requirements nor brining all the required eligibility documents.

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/eligibility_requirements.htm
ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
By law, the CMP can sell surplus military firearms, ammunition, parts and other items only to members of CMP affiliated clubs who are also U.S. citizens, over 18 years of age and who are legally eligible to purchase a firearm.

U.S. Citizenship:

You must provide a copy of a U.S. birth certificate, passport, proof of naturalization, or any official government document that shows birth in the U.S. or states citizenship as U.S.

Age

You must provide proof of age. Usually proof of citizenship also provides proof of age. In those cases where it may not, a driver’s license is sufficient.

Membership in CMP Affiliated Organization

You must provide a copy of your current membership card or other proof of membership. This requirement cannot be waived. The CMP currently has over 2,000 affiliated organizations located in many parts of the country.

Membership in many of these organizations costs $25.00 or less and can be accomplished online. A listing of affiliated organizations can be found by clicking on our Club Search web page at http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/clubSearch.cgi. If you have any difficulty in locating a club, please contact the CMP at 256-835-8455 or by emailing [email protected]. We will find one for you. In addition to shooting clubs, the CMP also has several special affiliates. Membership in these organizations satisfies our requirement for purchase. These special affiliates include: Congressionally chartered veterans' organizations such as the VFW, AL, DAV, MCL, etc. U.S. Military services (active or reserves), National Guard, to include retirees. Professional 501(c)3 law enforcement organizations and associations such as the FOP, NAPO, NSA, etc.

Note: Club membership IS required for purchase of rifles, parts, and ammunition.

Club membership is NOT required for instructional publications or videos or CMP memorabilia.

Marksmanship or other Firearms Related Activity

You must provide proof of participation in a marksmanship related activity or otherwise show familiarity with the safe handling of firearms and range procedures. Your marksmanship related activity does not have to be with highpower rifles; it can be with smallbore rifles, pistols, air guns or shotguns. Proof of marksmanship participation can be provided by documenting any of the following:

Current or past military service.
Current or past law enforcement service
Participation in a rifle, pistol, air gun or shotgun competition (provide copy of results bulletin).
Completion of a marksmanship clinic that included live fire training (provide a copy of the certificate of completion or a statement from the instructor).
Distinguished, Instructor, or Coach status.
Concealed Carry License.
Firearms Owner Identification Cards that included live fire training.
FFL or C&R license.
Completion of a Hunter Safety Course that included live fire training.
Certification from range or club official or law enforcement officer witnessing shooting activity. A form for use in completing and certifying your range firing can be downloaded from the CMP web site at http://www.odcmp.com/forms/marksmanship.pdf
No proof of marksmanship required if over age 60. proof of club membership and citizenship required for all ages.
NOTE: Proof of marksmanship activity is not required for purchase of ammunition, parts, publications or memorabilia.

Be Legally Eligible to Purchase a Firearm

The information you supply on your application will be submitted by the CMP to the FBI National Instant Criminal Check System (NICS) to verify you are not prohibited by Federal, State or Local law from acquiring or possessing a rifle. Your signature on the Purchaser Certification portion of the purchase application authorizes the CMP to initiate the NICS check and authorizes the FBI to inform CMP of the result. IMPORTANT: If your State or locality requires you to first obtain a license, permit, or Firearms Owner ID card in order to possess or receive a rifle, you must enclose a photocopy of your license, permit, or card with the application for purchase.
Click to expand...
 
You'll need a certified copy of your birth certificate.
Click to expand...
Same thing as notarized, I hope?
You must provide a copy of your current membership card or other proof of membership.
Click to expand...
I've got this sheet that says "CMP club member certification form"--filled out the club name, my name, address, social; the president of the club signed the "membership certified by" thing, and dated it--would that serve for the "proof of membership" thing?

When I drive up there, I am of course taking all of my 4 aforementioned documents (see a previous post)--would that put me "in the clear"? Thanks everyone for your help, I really appreciate it.....and it reminds me of why I"m glad I joined THR.
 
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