CMP Garand--Service, Field, or Rack?

[BoySetsTheFire]

HEY EIGHTBALL

I just realized, your name is eightball and in WWII the M1 Garand was referred to as "eightball" because the enbloc clip hold eight rounds.

 

[Eightball]

 

[hso]

Fax the documents to them and ask them if they meet the requirements if it's much trouble to drive up.

 

[Eightball]

The problem isn't driving up--it's only a 2 hour drive for me, but a 2 hour drive to find out that I"m a moron is a bad, bad thing.

 

[aaronrkelly]

About a month ago I got my Field Grade from CMP. I initially had a problem with the bolt not release upon inserting a magazine. I called them and they happily sent me out a box of parts to swap out. Now it works A-OK. They advised while they dont make any guarantees they like to see people get good working guns and if I had any problems with my gun when I got around to shooting it to call them back and I could send it in for them to go over.

She may not be the prettiest but its got alot of barrel life left....

 

[Eightball]

Is the quality of the wood on your rifle about the "norm" for field grade? If that's "as bad as it gets", then picking out a decent looking one shouldn't be too hard. Nice find, by the way!

 

[aaronrkelly]

Im not sure if thats normal or not, I did the paperwork and had it sent to me....I didnt pick it out.

The action is very tight in the stock and everything fits really well. I have a buddy that does stock refinishing as a hobby and I may have him work it over in the future.

 

[BoySetsTheFire]

<I have a buddy that does stock refinishing as a hobby and I may have him work it over in the future.>

That wood has "character".

 

[Blackfork]

Evaluating CMP Garands

In the photo, notice his rifle has wood of more than one color- the forearm and stock don't match. That's common. His Garand has the later, more desirable trigger guard- the spring steel guard, not the milled one.

When you get there, look at the rack of 1903 rifles when you first enter the rifle area. Look at the tip of the barrels lined up down the rack and notice which ones are worn and which ones are still completely blued. The blued ones are probably re-arsenaled and unfired. The worn ones are (not nessesarily bad), but more used. That's something to notice.

The 1903 rifles have barrel dates stamped just behind the front sight. The reblued ones have late dates, just like you would think. (late dates being 1943-44)

On a lot of Garands there were new-looking black parkerized receivers and barrels that looked unfired. (just like the 1903 barrel tips.) I think the Greeks may have rebuilt them, though they could have been done in the US before they shipped over. They looked a little "too new" to me, but might be rearsenaled unfired rifles. I did notice that they were in pretty rough stocks. Use the muzzle gauge and check them and see what an unfired barrel is gauging.

Most of the rifles were in US stocks- some were birch replacements. I'd take a US walnut stock over a replacement. The photo has a darker walnut stock. I certainly wouldn't want a wide-grained lighter replacement stock. If it's got a inspection cartouche on the left side near the left rear of the receiver, it's a US. Also look for the "P" stamped on the pistolgrip. Those are US stocks.

Notice some of the stocks and especially handguards have some well done but obvious slotted and glued wood repairs. Interesting...not good or bad.

You'll have fun.

When you get back, ask and I am sure someone will explain how to peen the barrel splines to tighten up the gas system and increase the accuracy. Sounds hard, but its pretty easy if you are guided by someone who knows how.

If you see a NM stamped on the Op Rod near the thumb handle (the big rod you jack open to open the bolt) that's a good thing. They were common last year, not so much this year.

SA= Springfield Armory (WWII and Post-WWII guns)
HRA= Harrison Richardson (post WWII gun)
IH= International Harvester (post WWII gun)
WRA= Winchester ( pre and post WWII gun)

There will be a rack of Winchesters off to one side. Look one over just to get familiar. Notice the bolt-OP-rod cut out at the right back of the receiver is a square cut, not a round cut like everyone else. Winchesters bring a premium. They also have the name "Winchester" above the serial number on the back of the receiver.

There is a high rack on the back wall of Garands less wood. I gauged a lot of them and the barrels were gone, gone, gone. They need rebarrelling before they will shoot. I wouldn't think you would find much among them. They are cheap but you need a stock, plus the metal hardware. Too much hassle for a beginner, I would think.

Below them at floor level on the back wall is where I would start, on the left, working to the right.

Don't forget to check buttplates, just to make sure the door isn't broken off .

And ask politely for "help."

You're going to have a great trip. It's like being in a museum where you can buy some of the exhibits!

 

[Blackfork]

Garand Front Sights

And while you are learning to be a Garand expert: Look at the front sights on the Winchesters. If it's a Win front sight, the side protective blades will look wider spread and more massive. The Springfield front sights, by comparison, have side blades that go nearly straight up.

OK, now you are officially overloaded with data.

 

[Blackfork]

Do NOT refinish a Garand Stock...

Unless you are some kind of recognized expert. You could be ruining a classic stock. Just clean it gently. Murphys Oil soap. No gun scrubber, no steel wool, no sandpaper.

Garands are REAL guns. An American Battle Rifle. I love my AR and have done well with it, but the Garand crushed the Wehrmacht and the Imperial Army, drove the North Koreans out of their own country, stacked up the Chinese in the cold. It's a man's gun built in the best period of history by the greatest nation the to ever exist on Earth.

You'll feel better about yourself just owning one. And you ought to.

 

[Eightball]

What are the visible differences between trigger guards, and why is it important? Just checking.

 

[Blackfork]

Garand Trigger Guards and groups

To field-strip a Garand you begin by unlatching the back end of the trigger guard and rotating it down to remove the trigger group. The whole thing comes out in your hand. (in Saving Private Ryan you see Lt Miller pull the trigger groups and toss them on the Garands marking the graves of his medic and the other paratroopers killed by the machine gun at the radar tower) Turns out the trigger group and floorplate hold the whole rifle in the main stock.

The early trigger group is milled metal. When they wear on the latching portion the trigger guard and whole trigger assembly gets loose. The newer stamped trigger guards can be bent slightly to keep a nice tight latch.

The earlier trigger is correct for VERY early Garands and some later ones. The stamped trigger Guard is not correct for very early rifles. There is a lot of overlap.

The early milled trigger has a hole behind the trigger that runs left and right. Looks like it was an aperture to insert a cleaning rod section in to use as a handle to unlatch the trigger to me.

Trigger lock up and tightness is also affected when the wood in the stock gets compressed over time. This is a different problem.

Hope I didn't make muddy water worse. When you see both triggers side by side it's an easy distinction for anyone.

A Garand trigger group has many parts. The guard, hammer, safety, housing, and other parts will be stamped with the makers initials. Most CMP rifles are extremely mixed parts guns by now. They can be unmixed with a little sorting.

HRA and IH trigger groups are only stamped metal. They were post WWII makers. I've heard that these two companies were added to spread rifle production beyond the east coast in case of atomic attack.

 

[Blackfork]

CMP North

I can't think of a better day than one spent looking through rifles at the CMP North store. Wish I was going.

 

[Eightball]

Thanks everyone for the help. Blackfork.........Geez, man, you're like a dictionary of the CMP. Thank you so much for your help---i printed it all off to read while i'm there. I'm off in the morning, so wish me luck. If i find someone wiht a digital camera, i'll take some pics of it, and try to fandangle them into showing up. Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Blackfork]

Wonder where we send the flowers?

As soon as he mentioned Stonecipher's name, they probably taped him to a load of old barrels and dropped him in Lake Erie. Third one this month...

 

[tyrspawn]

I know this is an ancient thread but I had some questions about the same topic:

I am thinking about buying one of the CMP garands - a few concerns:

Are these authentic original garands still in surplus from WW2? How can you know how worn out it is before you buy it? Could it still be used in self defense situations? I basically only want to buy one if it is good to go when I slap a clip in.

What model of garand are they? Only M1? DO any of them have folding stocks? What is the loading and unloading action?

Does anyone know if any manufacturer creates garands or garand clones today?

 

[mgregg85]

A lot of them are from foreign countries that used them after WWII such as the italians.

You could use a garand in self defense if you wanted to, its one hell of a battle rifle. I would caution against using it for home defense because it is gonna shoot straight through whoever your aiming at and through the wall behind them. Overpenetration is a big concern.

I'm not sure how many models of the M1 there are but I believe they are mostly that basic model. They may have a few of the M1D sniper models.

I don't think garands were ever equipped with folding stocks. Maybe you are thinking of the M1 Carbine which they also sell at the CMP store. You will probably have a hard time finding a folding stocked M1 carbine anywhere(none at CMP) for cheap.

Check out surplusrifle.com for more info on the garand if you are curious.

 

[30Cal]

They're all USGI rifles. The Service Grade, apart from probably needing a new set of springs should be good to go.

It takes an 8rd clip. When it's empty, the clip ejects itself, you stuff a new one in. There's a button that will release the clip if you need to, but it was never intended to be used in battle.

 

[AmishFury]

buy the best grade you can comfortably afford

 

[Swampy]

Are these authentic original garands still in surplus from WW2?

The CMP M1 rifles come from the entire production range of 1937 through 1957.

How can you know how worn out it is before you buy it?

Any rifle you get from the CMP will be functional or they will make it right. The CMP grading system tells you the wear factors on the barrel and what your chances of good finish on the metal is. Read the CMP's grading system. It's on their website.

Could it still be used in self defense situations?

Any rifle can be used for self defense. The choice of a defense weapon is purely subjective depending on a lot of factors. Whether the M1 is the best choice for you in your situations where you live is another question entirely.

I basically only want to buy one if it is good to go when I slap a clip in.

Any rifle you buy from the CMP will need to be dis-assembled, fully cleaned, re-oiled and re-lubed (GREASE !!!), and re-assembled. This is pretty much a necessity, not an option. These rifles have been in warehouse storage for anywhere from 20 to 50 years. To not do the preliminary maintenence before using (ESPECIALLY if you foresee it as a defense weapon.) is purely foolish....

What model of garand are they? Only M1?

The vast majority of M1 rifles are the basic infantry model. The -C and -D model sniper rifles are available (MUCH higher prices.). See the CMP website for offerings, gradings, prices.

DO any of them have folding stocks?

The M1 rifle never had a folding stock, exepting for purely "one off" experimental factory models.

What is the loading and unloading action?

Huh??? You load an en-bloc clip with 8 rounds, pull the trigger 8 times, and repeat....

Does anyone know if any manufacturer creates garands or garand clones today?

SA Inc. (Commercial) until recently sold "new" M1's made from newly made commercial receiver, barrel, and wood. The remaining parts were old, used, and re-finished to look new GI parts. Good rifles... but HIGHLY overpriced. They are no longer in production as the supply of old parts dried up in the quantities necessary to maintain a production.

Best of luck,
Swampy

Garands forever