Co worker pulled over with gun in car- no CCW.

[Ben Shepherd]

Guys, just so you know, I had a co-worker pulled over last night with a gun in his glove box. He had forrgotten it was there.

Officer #1 failed to find it on an initial search, officer #2 found it after said coworker was in the squad car handcuffed. Claimed it was loaded, co-worker claimed it wasn't.

This co-worker owns a bar, which he manages at night so he keeps the gun in the car for protection when making late night deposits, so this might help.

Haven't had time to talk with him about why he was pulled over, but I did refer him to Mitch Vilos, and I will post updates as I get them.

I also told him that should he come out of this OK, he NEEDS TO GO GET HIS CCW!!! He told me now he understands why I'm so vocal about the 2nd amendment.

Mods, I'm not requesting a float, as it may take some time to get the ball rolling. If it gets to where things are happening quickly, if THR members are interested, I'll request a float then.

Details as I get them.

 

[Gordon Fink]

I wonder if he consented to a search.

~G. Fink

 

[tyme]

Why was he arrested? What prompted the handcuffing and second search? Getting arrested for something unrelated won't cause a jury to be very sympathetic when he's charged with unlicensed handgun possession.

Never consent to a search, ever. And never do something so obviously illegal that you'll end up in the back of a squad car while a cop rummages through your car finding more skeletons.

 

[R.H. Lee]

I wonder if he consented to a search.

That was my first thought. I'm no lawyer, but I think unless he was already under arrest any evidence obtained without his consent for a search would be inadmissable. Of course the cops could always claim 'probable cause' (they had a report of a 'man with a gun' whose vehicle description just happend to match his car).

I thought Utah was less restrictive........

 

[Gordon Fink]

Without more information, I’ll hazard a guess that he was pulled over under suspicion of drunk driving.

~G. Fink

 

[gunsmith]

Forgot it was there?

If he is so forgetfull then how can he remember if it was loaded or not?
I've been pulled over plenty of times and never searched,even for going close to 100mph in 65mph zones (you know,motorcycle rider)
What did he do to get cuffed and searched?
From what little I know of Utah law carrying in a glovebox is a big nono.
I hope it's not a felony.

 

[Correia]

What was he pulled over for?

 

[Ben Shepherd]

I did't ask why the intial stop, didn't get the chance. The conversation started with him saying "What are my gun rights Ben?" We chatted for maybe 1 minute, then work went nuts, and he didn't want everyone and thier dog listening to our discussion, so we'll be talking later.

I'm still at work, and it's really busy, so I can't really take the time to post the whole conversation we had right now. HOWEVER: I will find the time to have a detailed chat with him before leaving work, and will get to a location that I CAN take the time to post details by tommorow night.

 

[sumpnz]

I guy I was friends with back east (PA) got arrested for a gun in his glove box. He managed to beat the rap by showing that it was an illegal search that turned it up. It would have been a felony had the charge stuck.

In his case, the gun was in a locked box inside his locked glove box. To comply with the law he should have had it in his trunk. Not sure if it was loaded. Don't know why he was pulled over, though knowing him it was probably for speeding, possibly suspected DUI.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

For those wondering:

As for the co-workers character, I've worked with him for a little more that 3 years, yes he's a little rough around the edges.

BUT:

Would I trust him with one of my guns? Yes.

 

[jnojr]

I also told him that should he come out of this OK, he NEEDS TO GO GET HIS CCW!!! He told me now he understands why I'm so vocal about the 2nd amendment.

It may be far too late for him now... if he's convicted of a crime, especially a felony, he'll never have a CCW, let alone a gun, again.

 

[Michigander]

If he is so forgetfull then how can he remember if it was loaded or not?

First thing I thought too. His lawyer better help him with this.

Also, in Michigan, IIRC, a felony could cause your liquor license to be revoked. He may be out of business after all the dust settles.

Hope not.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Here's what I know so far:

1. Pulled over for DUI

2. Refused testing, so instant arrest. Will have to wait for further results on this portion.

3. They claim it was loaded(he wasn't shown this), he's thought about this since our initial discussion, and he says it couldn't have been, as he bought 1 box of ammo when he bought the gun, shot a cylinder full of it, and hasn't pulled the trigger on it since. And his box of ammo at home is only missing those six bullets.

4. They're trying to hang him for no serial number on gun. However, it's a security six with an aftermarket grip that covers the frame, so unless he's been totally stupid here, that should be cleared up quickly. He bought the gun with that grip on it many years ago in a private transaction.

He's one of the type that bought it for protection, but he's not a shooter and never thought to check it for the #, so I really hope it's there when they look for it, or he's royally screwed.

Like I said, he's an OK guy(give you the shirt off his back type). So hopefully he's just been a little stupid here and going to learn an expensive lesson. The alternative here, as we all know, is not good at all.

More later, after he talks with attorneys.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

The big moral here is:

DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE!!!:banghead: If if you are stupid enough to, make sure you DON'T HAVE A GUN!!!

 

[RED-DOG 40]

Gun hidden in glove box, DUI......OUCH.....

 

[sumpnz]

This is part of the reason that, for the most part I don't carry unless I'm going to/from a shooting related activity. I've been lucky in that after 5 times being pulled over I have to get anything more than a warning, but you never know when I'll get a cop that doesn't know the law and decides to make an issue out of something he shouldn't.

I don't have a CCW, and am uneasy about the possibility of attracting unwanted attention from open carry (although AZ is an open carry state), so I generally leave my iron at home. This is particularly true if I think there's any chance I'll be imbibing any potent potables.

Best of luck to your co-worker. As you said, hopefully this will end up being no more than an expensive lesson.

Edit: Based on Utah law, does unloading it make it legal, or is it bad ju-ju to have in the glove box regarless.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

A little clarification:

He's the type I would trust to treat my gun(or anything else) with respect.

I wouldn't just hand one over as I know he's not a shooter. But I would trust him not to do something stupid(like borrowing it to brandish, etc.). He is aware of the 4 basic rules, as he was raised around guns, just never got into them. Know what I mean?

 

[Standing Wolf]

What's wrong with carrying guns? Last time I read the Second Amendment...

 

[RED-DOG 40]

"Based on Utah law, does unloading it make it legal, or is it bad ju-ju to have in the glove box regarless."

..Having it conceald any where w/o permit a no-no.
Leaving it in the open w/no round in chamber or no round in next up cyl. in revolver legal.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

My personal opinoin here is that the gun is TOTALLY irrelevant to the DUI. But heck, I guess it's a good thing he didn't have his work knife on his belt, or they'd have hit him for that as well.

Here again, thanks to laws on the books, yet another falls victim to assuming the constitution means what it says, and unfortunately assumed wrong.

How many do you know that have no clue how restricted the 2nd ammendment is? The looks on thier faces when they mention doing something and you tell them "Congratulations, you're a felon! You just didn't get caught."

 

[sumpnz]

Having it conceald any where w/o permit a no-no.

Looks like he's screwed unless he can get the evidence thrown out due to possible illegal search. Since he was apparently already under arrest (i.e. automatic probable cause) when they found it I doubt that argument will fly.

The only other possibility I see is if he really wasn't drunk, he might be able to argue that the arrest and hence search was improper. But, consent to sobriety tests is usually implyed by ownership of a driving license, so again I don't think this will fly either.

Bummer. Still, I wish him good luck on beating the gun charge. Don't have much sympathy over the DUI charge though (if he was drunk).

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Here's a thought:

Isn't it strange that even in a gun friendly state like Utah, mere possesion/storage of a gun in a certain manner carries heavier penalties than a DUI?

"Reasonable restrictions my !!!"

Like I said earlier, more details as I get them. Most likely monday.

 

[Carlos]

Ben, trust me, that gun needs to be removed from the evidence. A good lawyer will achieve that, if he/she's lucky. Lawyers don't have the luxury of choosing which judge who will hear the case. If you get my drift.

Bottom line: Yes, NO DRINKING AND DRIVING, WITH A GUN!!!!!.

Good point about losing a liquor license. Damm, this is a bad, bad, bad deal for your friend.

 

[MarkDido]

As I understand it, at least in Florida.

A SILA (Search, Incident to Lawful Arrest) is one of the circumstances that LE does not need a warrant or permission to search a vehicle.

These are sometimes called "Inventory Searches" of a vehicle to prevent arrestees from claiming that there was an envelope containing $10,000 or valuable computer / camera/ etc equipment in the vehicle before LE had the vehicle towed.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Um, he carries a gun that he's shot once, with no ammo within miles, for protection?

Riiiiight.

Then he drinks and drives with the gun in the glove box.

Sheeeeesh.

Not the brightest bulb, is he?