Pistol confiscated by police and they won't return it, part II.

[Ralph III]

Hello Everyone!

I started a thread a few months ago and I wasn't able to follow up because my laptop died. It's been a process in getting the new computer set up with my stuff and some of our daughters school work.

Anyhow, to refresh. My coworkers pistol was taken from his residence by his step-son without his permission. The gun was then immediately confiscated by a local police officer (rural area) as the step-son was walking toward a wooded area in order to shoot it. This occurred over 2 years ago and it was confiscated because the step-son has a prior felony. The original thread is HERE.

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I appreciate the input that occurred. I would like to clarify a few things, to see if your opinion changes as to whether you feel my co-worker has an opportunity to get his pistol back?

1) The step-son does not and was not living with them. In fact they rarely see him but he does stop by their house on occasion. My co-worker was not home when he took the pistol. He took it without permission and unbeknownst to anyone. I don't know if it would be considered theft though because he intended to return it?

2) My co-worker has spoken to the local police in an attempt to get his lawful firearm back to no avail. They just claim it is an open case or under investigation.

3) The local police never issued a stub for the confiscated firearm nor will they allow my co-worker to see it or say whether they still have it.

My thoughts are the gun is simply a lost cause. If he files a complaint that the step-son stole the weapon then he will run afoul with his wife. He just needs to force the step-son to reimburse him for the value of the pistol, IMHO.

Anyhow, I just wanted to follow up.

Ralph

 

[Riomouse911]

If he can squeeze blood out of that turnip he’ll be ahead.

Too bad the locals are sketchy, being in law enforcement for almost 30 years I can’t stand shady work by an individual officer, much less an entire organization. (This is hearsay info you’re posting, so we can only judge from the info you’ve received and posted.)

I would tell him to file a public records request for their evidence room records, asking for the records of all firearms booked into evidence and their disposition for the twelve months prior and twelve months after the date of the contact with the stepson. (It may be it’s still pending a court ruling.)

If there is no record of his firearm being booked, or a legitimate disposition if it was booked, he should forward a complaint to the State AG.

If there are records, but still no reason why it wasn’t ordered destroyed or returned, then go to the town council/county board and inquire during a public meeting.

Stay safe.

 

[wiscoaster]

The record of other cases where firearms were confiscated by police, whether lawfully under court order OR NOT, is not very hopeful. I'd say since it's just one gun to write it off and let it go. Putting the aggravation in the past and resulting peace of mind is worth so much more than what the one gun is worth.

 

[jmorris]

I wonder what is still under investigation. Are they thinking about charging the felon or your buddy?

If he wants it back what does he have to do? That’s not a question for you, rather those in possession of it now.

If he doesn’t say it was stolen, how is he going to justify a felon gaining possession of it?

If I took his gun, got caught with it and told the police I was going to return it when I was done shooting it, I bet they would accuse me of stealing it.

FWIW, I have a friend that had a firearm stolen years before I had met him. Sometime later he had received a call that it was recovered. Another 12 years or so after all litigation and appeals had taken place, he got it back. Still loaded, when they gave it to him!

 

[jmorris]

If he files a complaint that the step-son stole the weapon then he will run afoul with his wife. He just needs to force the step-son to reimburse him for the value of the pistol, IMHO.

I would agree, if he can’t tell the truth, he shouldn’t start anything.

I can see an officer say, “Did he steal it?”

“Well...no.”

“So you gave a known felon a pistol and ammunition?”

Now he’s in a worse position that he was to begin with.

 

[Riomouse911]

I think you may have missed the purpose of my post.

Since he’s being told that the case is still under investigation, there are red flags for such a simple “possess firearms by a felon case” still being investigated after two years. Using such a line to put off the OP’s friend could be legit, or it could be a blow-off because someone screwed up or kept the gun themselves.

If confiscating firearms and then not properly handling them is a pattern and practice of either the whole department, or just one employee, that pattern can be shown with such records. If they are shady, this type of info is a massively important piece of evidence to have.

If they’re taking guns and not reporting it properly this is used to;

A) to file a complaint with higher authorities to investigate and possibly indict crooked employees.

Weeding out schnooks is vitally important. I’ve worked public corruption cases as an investigator, supervisor and administrator since 2011, getting info that shows patterns of potential wrongdoing on crooked people is gold.

I have also supervised our evidence clerks for many years. We get these requests all the time, which is why things must be done procedurally and by the book, or you may lose your cases either up front or on appeal.

B) to give leverage in a civil suit seeking at minimum the return of the gun.. or even additional damages later.

Municipal defense counsel are quick to settle with plaintiffs if their own records show the employees or agency they are defending are doing things improperly.

If the records show (hopefully) that they are doing things right, he will have to seek his remedy in another manner... or just walk away.

No matter what tack is taken by the friend of the OP, the time to file against the stepson has a statute of limitations. (In Ca it varies between three years to forever, depending on the crime.) If it’s been sent to the DA and rejected, there is no reason to hold it unless they intend to go to Court for an order it be destroyed as a nuisance. They say it is still in the evidence room awaiting a determination about filing by the DA, so their records should reflect that.

He should also inquire with the DA to see if it has been rejected already. If it has then the PRA for the evidence records is even more justified.

PRAs are simple ways to uncover shady dealings in government, if one feels like they’re being given the runaround then we can utilize the tools we citizens are given.

Stay safe.

 

[CapnMac]

Sadly, at the current time, just going out and getting a replacement is not as easy as it would have been 10 or 12 months ago.

And, the firearm is a legitimate piece of physical evidence in a criminal trial, so they have a legitimate need to have a proven chain of custody of the item. Which means they are not giving it back until the entire process is finished.

Criminal trial proceedings are not swift. 30-36 months just to get started is not unusual. And, if the stepson was still under care of a Parole or Probation Officer, the process will be different. Those cases usually involve hauling the person before a magistrate.

The item probably needs to be recorded as stolen, if only to establish a chain of ownership. And, because the homeowner's policy might pay off, too.

But, it's probably a lost cause to the original owner.

 

[Riomouse911]

Ya, I just threw out possible suggestions if he wants to push it. I’ve seen several situations where people trying to get something have made our lives difficult with PRAs and other means ... but our office came out in the clear and became more efficient and responsive as a result of the experiences.

In all honesty, he’s pretty much lost the gun and I doubt his turnip stepson will be able to come up with the dough to replace it.

A painful lesson learned.

Stay safe.

 

[WestKentucky]

My two cents is worth what you paid for it.

Assume for a moment that the evidence is lost. What is there to gain by forcing the issue? A possession by prohibited person charge for one, and a charge for illegal transfer or allowing access of however they want to put it for the other person. What is there to gain by the gun remaining lost... when it comes to court the first question the defense needs to ask is “Can you produce the weapon in question” and at that point the case should be thrown out. As far as “theft” goes then it’s a common deal for things to be taken without permission but not stolen... as in a kid goes joyriding in moms fancy car.

 

[sisyphus]

If confiscating firearms and then not properly handling them is a pattern and practice of either the whole department, or just one employee, that pattern can be shown with such records. If they are shady, this type of info is a massively important piece of evidence to have.

If they’re taking guns and not reporting it properly this is used to;

A) to file a complaint with higher authorities to investigate and possibly indict crooked employees.

now wait a second, if this handgun had been in the safe where it belonged this would have never happened, yes? So who's really at fault, the negligent gun owner or the felonious stepson? In any event, in this case I don't think the negligent gun owner has a lot of room to feel butthurt over the confiscated firearm, since you know, they didn't store it properly.

Weeding out schnooks is vitally important. I’ve worked public corruption cases as an investigator, supervisor and administrator since 2011, getting info that shows patterns of potential wrongdoing on crooked people is gold.

or snitchery lol

 

[Ru4real]

The owner needs to file a stolen property report for the firearm. He will get the weapon back this way, and only this way, if at all.

It would have been much easier had the stolen report been filed immediately, because there sounds to be some shenanigans going on now (gun lost, etc.). The kid stole the gun pure and simple.

If the gun isn’t returned, the kid can be sued. I know you can’t get blood from a stone, but this how the BS process works.

 

[Riomouse911]

now wait a second, if this handgun had been in the safe where it belonged this would have never happened, yes? So who's really at fault, the negligent gun owner or the felonious stepson? In any event, in this case I don't think the negligent gun owner has a lot of room to feel butthurt over the confiscated firearm, since you know, they didn't store it properly.



or snitchery lol

I have no idea what that last line means in the context of my post, sorry.

Stay safe.

 

[jmorris]

If the gun isn’t returned, the kid can be sued.

If the guy is going to be in the dog house for calling a thief a thief by his wife, he would need to go see a specialist for mental retardation if he sues his wife’s son for $700.

He would be paying lawyers twice for nothing and any judgment would come out of his wife’s pocket. Which would be his.

 

[Alex Clayton]

Assuming all told is as it really was I would say he will never see it again. It was "stolen" by a felon, but, he does not want to report it stolen?? He got off lucky. Assuming the felon was allowed access to the home? Did he break in? If allowed access, I assume the gun was not secured? So felon was allowed access to the firearm. He should count himself lucky all he lost was a gun and call it a day. If that guy had used that gun in a crime? Of sold it to someone who used it in a crime? The least of his concerns would be a the cost of the gun. He would need lawyers to stay out of prison himself.
So bottom line. His wife's kid steals from them, his wife is all in on allowing this, and he wants to stay with Wife. Fine. If I was him I would either not own any firearms, or if he wants to keep playing the lotto here at least get a good safe the Wife does not have access too. Next time the kid steals a gun he may not get off nearly so easy.

 

[jrmiddleton425]

What I could find is at this link: https://www.alabamaag.gov/Documents/firearms/File-Alabama-Weapon-Laws.pdf

Your co-worker won't get that gun back until the case is closed, if he gets it back then.

My gut feeling is that the pistol in question has been destroyed by request of the district attorney or sheriff, or retained for public use because it suited the county to do so.

In any case, your co-worker should be able to get information on the pistol's disposition from the district attorney.

 

[Ralph III]

Thanks for the input! I plan on printing some of your posts out for my co-worker to consider. There are a few things I'd like to clear up though.

1) My co-worker is a responsible and law abiding citizen! He is a lifelong gun enthusiast and hunter. I don't appreciate the few comments suggesting he was negligent somehow or even contributed to his gun being taken. It was taken without his permission from his residence and unbeknownst to him or anyone else!

2) Riomouse 911, I don't know about Ca. but there is no law which requires a firearm to be stored in a gun safe in Alabama or any nearby state for that matter. That really defeats the purpose of having a self defense weapon readily available, IMHO. So I don't consider it irresponsible if a firearm is kept in a safe place versus necessarily in a gun safe.

3) In adding to the above. The gun was stored and located within his residence. If a relative should visit your home and take your pistol without your permission and unbeknownst to you, I don't see how you could be considered at fault. Especially if it was stored in a location within your bedroom and not simply laying around in plain sight.

4) The step-son is not a boy. He is a grown man in his late 20's or early 30's.

5) Should he had reported it stolen? Well that's kinda a hard question to answer, as I see it. Sure, the step-son took the gun unbeknownst and without permission but that's about it. He wasn't actually stealing the gun to keep or pawn off. So it may have never actually entered my co-workers mind to report it stolen especially as he has been interacting with the local police department since it was first confiscated.

I doubt any of you, with exception of a few, would have a close relative arrested under the same circumstances. So your step-son who has an expired driver license, borrows your old truck without permission, which then gets impounded? Do you then have him arrested by telling the police he stole it? Do you consider yourself partially responsible because you didn't have the keys locked in a safe, within your residence? I doubt it. You'd most likely simply be pissed as my co-worker is at the moment.

God Bless,
Ralph

 

[Frank Ettin]

Between this one and the earlier thread the ground has been covered.