Cocked and locked. (again but different)

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CajunBass

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I was reading another thread about "cocked and locked" earlier and seeing all the ways to "get over" the fear of carrying that way, when it struck me.

Am I the only person who has never really thought about it? When I got my first 1911, I just looked at it, saw the hammer was cocked, the safety was on and holstered it and went on about my business. No big deal. It never occured to me that it was dangerous or anything unusual about it.

I guess I had read in Guns and Ammo or somewhere way back when that was the way it was supposed to be, and that was that.
 
Anybody who is scared of carrying a 1911 in condition #1 might do the following. Carry it cocked and locked with an empty chamber FOR 30 DAYS and re-evaluate. Did it, at any tiime, 'fire' accidentally? Might give them confidence in the C#1 carry mode.
 
It never bothered me either. I also grew up hearing C#1 was the only way to carry one. When I first got a 1911 I just cocked it, locked it, and carried it.
 
I've always carried cocked and locked. My first "good" 1911 holster had a thumb break, which would knock the safety off in short order. The first couple of times, I went probably the whole day with the safety off, and the gun still didnt drop the hammer on its own. A little disconcerting, but if you think about it, hows it going to drop the hammer with the trigger covered deep in the holster unless something is faulty?

I soon cut that silly strap off and never looked back. Still used to find the safety off on occasion, but the gun(s) still never fired on its own.
 
Cocked & Locked is as safe or safer than these striker fired pistols with no manual safeties. I am uneasy when chambering a round in my XD because I can not put the safety on. It does not have one of course. Is the XD a safe pistol? Sure it is, but my comfort level is used to 1911's and a manual safety.

Cocked and LOCKED :)
 
Is there really any other way to carry a 1911?

No, as noted it’s how they were designed. I’ve frankly never understood the C1 phobia. Except for our friend AK103K I’ve not heard of thumb safeties just disengaging. Thumb safety, grip safety, trigger in the holster, it’s not going off.
 
That's the way they were designed, so I don't see a problem.
There are several guys who practice real defensive shooting at my range who routinely practice draw, load (rack slide), aim and fire mostly with non-1911's. Some of them are pretty darned quick with the procedure.
 
Regardless of how you choose to carry your 1911 style pistol, make sure you function-check the safeties often. My AMT Longslide Hardballer fired once when I pointed it down range and pulled the trigger with the thumb safety fully engaged. The safety sheared off when it did.

With an unloaded gun, hammer back- safety engaged (up)- depress the grip safety and pull the trigger; nothing should happen.

With an unloaded gun, hammer back-safety off (down)- do not depress the grip safety and pull the trigger; nothing should happen.

If those two checks test OK, you should feel confident that it cannot discharge in your holster or when drawn from your holster. It would take multiple mechanical failures or multiple stupid gun handling moves from you for there to be a ND.

I carry mine cocked and locked with the mag topped off. If I unload it for some reason, I do those two checks before I reload.
 
Put me down as another vote for "it never occurred to me to worry about it".

Virtually all my long guns can be carried cocked and locked too, and they don't make me uneasy either.
 
If someone is uncomfortable with a 1911 in conditin one they shoul carry a different type of pistol.
 
When I first got a 1911 I carried it around all the time at home empty, but cocked and locked. Did all kinds of strenuous activities to see if the safety would ever disengage. These activities involved fighting, wrestling, climbing, jumping, falling, sliding, direct hits to the pistol itself from various objects from various different angles, etc etc.

The safety never did come off, and more importantly, the hammer never did drop. It's a solid, reliable platform that, IMO, is one of the safest I've encountered. It may not seem like it, but the grip safety also provides an amazing protection against a dropped hammer even with the safety off. It's not easy for anything besides a hand to engage the grip safety AND pull the trigger.
 
Are you going to remember to cycle the slide under duress?
Will you remember to take off the safety when under duress?

It's a matter of practice either way. You could learn to carry C&L on an empty chamber, and disengage the safety and rack the slide before firing. I don't think it's a very good idea, but it could be done. People carried single-action revolvers for years, and were able to cock the hammer when they needed to.

People are highly adaptive.
 
With an unloaded gun, hammer back-safety off (down)- do not depress the grip safety and pull the trigger; nothing should happen.
I've had a couple of 1911's over the years whose grip safety did not work right out of the box. The last one was a Kimber Ultra Carry. I've always "press checked" my 1911's and used the grip safety to do so. Sort of defeats the purpose of it being there if they dont work.

Just because its there, dont bet the farm its working until you prove it to yourself. Same goes for any gun, not just the 1911's.


There are many 1911's that have stiff or sloppy thumb safeties too. Some need some dremel work just to get them off without something hydraulic, while others seem to flop around as you walk. I've had both and the former is usually easier to deal with yourself.

I think the best thing they ever came up with was the Series 80 firing pin safety. Solves the whole problem. If the trigger isnt pulled, the gun wont shoot.
 
The only exception is when I use a fanny pack. Once, I opened it up, and the safety was off. I honestly don't know if I forgot to put it on safe, or if my 2 year old was playing on my lap and squished it off, but I decided that if it's in there where I can't see and touch it, and it takes time to draw it anyway, I'll leave the hammer down.

Other than that, IWB, shoulder, open carry, it's condition 1. And yes, if carrying with the hammer cocked gives you the willies, and you just can't get over it, carry something else.
 
I also grew up thinking cocked anf locked was safe and normal.

The ONLY time I have had my safety come off was long ago when I was using an extended safety in a "mexican" carry.

Got rid of the extended safety and have never had the problem again.

Got one 1911 with extended safety, and it is for range / comp only.
 
The only exception is when I use a fanny pack. Once, I opened it up, and the safety was off. I honestly don't know if I forgot to put it on safe, or if my 2 year old was playing on my lap and squished it off, but I decided that if it's in there where I can't see and touch it, and it takes time to draw it anyway, I'll leave the hammer down.

+1

I've had exactly the same experience, and more than once, using a Galco fanny pack, which I otherwise really like and use daily. I too keep the 1911 in condition two in the fanny pack.

Regarding the extended thumb safety, my carry gun has one (Wilson). However I have been extensively using a stock Series 70 Colt with a .22/.45 Conversion Unit. The regular Colt thumb safety works as fast for me as an extended one; I never notice the difference when I change back and forth, and am convinced that it is much less likely to get wiped off inadvertently than the extended one.
 
Even if the thumb safety happens to disengage, there is still the grip safety, and with the 80 Series there is also the firing pin safety. I don't understand the fear of carrying in condition one. :confused:
 
Cocked and locked is fine, if you have a quality holster, and are experienced with your weapon.

What whould you recommend for your clueless neighbor, who is scared of looters after a hurricane, does not own a holster, and has not handled or fired his pistol in the last ten years? Remember, he will be carrying it around, right next door, in close proximity to your family, while distracted by cleaning up the wreckage of his home.

Cocked and locked is fine, but not for everybody. It is up to you to determine if it is fine for you.
 
545days said:
Cocked and locked is fine, if you have a quality holster, and are experienced with your weapon.

What whould you recommend for your clueless neighbor, who is scared of looters after a hurricane, does not own a holster, and has not handled or fired his pistol in the last ten years? Remember, he will be carrying it around, right next door, in close proximity to your family, while distracted by cleaning up the wreckage of his home.

Cocked and locked is fine, but not for everybody. It is up to you to determine if it is fine for you.

If I had a neighbor like that I wouldn't worry about him carrying cocked and locked, as long as he obeyed the four rules.

Conversely, if he couldn't follow the four rules I wouldn't feel safe watching the guy carry an unloaded revolver.

Condition 1 carry doesn't require any special skills or experience to be safe. It just requires the same common sense that applies to handling any firearm. Some people may let some mechanical variations provide the illusion of compensating for poor gun handling, but anyone who spend a little while thinking about it knows better.
 
From my colt manual;

Carrying Modes Note: This pistol may be carried in any one of the following three modes according to your needs:
Mode 1: - MAGAZINE EMPTY, CHAMBER EMPTY.
Mode 2: - MAGAZINE LOADED. CHAMBER EMPTY, HAMMER DOWN.
Mode 3: - MAGAZINE LOADED, CHAMBER LOADED, HAMMER COCKED, SAFTY ON. (Use mode 3 when you MUST BE PREPARED to use the pistol IMMEDIATELY without warning.
SAFETY DEPENDS ON YOU.
 
MY Favorite excerpt from the colt manual.

IMPORTANT: These safety devices are designed and installed in this pistol to prevent accidental discharge. Of course, this Colt Pistol is designed primarily to discharge bullets, and it will do this efficiently when it is loaded and you squeeze the trigger, Always expect the gun to fire when you squeeze the trigger.:)
 
greener said:
...There are several guys who practice real defensive shooting at my range who routinely practice draw, load (rack slide), aim and fire mostly with non-1911's. Some of them are pretty darned quick with the procedure.
It can be done, of course. But it take two hands. I'm not going to count on having the use of both hands if I need my gun in a hurry.

545days said:
What whould you recommend for your clueless neighbor, who is scared of looters after a hurricane, does not own a holster, and has not handled or fired his pistol in the last ten years?...
Sorry, but I'd recommend a baseball bat. Clueless people and loaded guns are a lousy and dangerous combination.
 
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