Cocked & Locked??

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I've got kids, so mine get set "out of sight, out of mind" and unloaded.

Same routine every time I stow one away. Drop mag, rack slide and lock to rear, visual chamber check, drop hammer on empty chamber and drop it in the drawer.
 
I hope it's not too far off topic, I apologize if it is. Im curious what condition you guys keep a 1911 in, when you're not carrying it.

When you guys remove your carry gun for the day do you unload it, unchamber it, or leave it in C1 in the safe?
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overnight or for a few days?
it stays in the holster, hot and in C1 ... in fact, in this household, any gun in a holster is loaded, barring transport of both devices in an overly small container like a small range case

actual storage?
cleared, mag out, chamber empty, sometimes with a chamber flag ... this is how guns should be stored as far as I'm concerned

long-term storage? (as in, I'm out of town for a few weeks or I otherwise want the gun disabled)
Gun cleared, slide off and locked, generally with a cable lock. Frame may also be cable locked. Rifles have the bolt or some other obvious and critical part removed and locked up, or are locked shut (leverguns) in a cleared condition.

===

beyond those three conditions, I have no use for much else. If it isn't hot, cleared, or disabled ... I'll make it that way if it is going to be in my possession. I have no use for "chamber empty, mag full" or any other half-way loaded condition, and I have no use for trigger locks either.
 
When I used to carry a 1911, I did so C&L and that is the way I'd store it over night in my safe. If I wasn't going to carry it for a few days, I'd clear it.

As for C&L carry, there was a post over on the M1911 forum (M1911.org IIRC) with pics of an unloaded Springfield 1911 left in condition 1 that fell out of the backpack of a biker traveling at about 75 to 80 mph. When he recovered the gun, there was a chunk missing out of the hammer, indicating that it probably hit the pavement hammer first. Despite this blow, the hammer stayed cocked.

Before loading up my 1911, I would do numerous safety checks. I'd test the disconnector, safety and grip safety. I'd wiggle the cocked hammer and push on it a bit to see if I could get it to drop. I would then release the hammer to see if the 1/4 notch would catch it. I would using use dummy rounds I had loaded (no primer or powder) for testing for hammer follow-through. Basically, I would insert the mag with the dummy rounds and release the slide on the mag to see if the hammer would stay cocked (dropping the slide on an empty mag/no mag can damage the gun's locking lugs). I started doing this after a friend with an old Remington Rand experienced an AD when he released the slide on a live round at the range. The hammer followed the slide, and the gun fired. Scared the crap out of him. Turns out the sear was worn, IIRC. Also, I think he said the gun fired more than one round (3 I think, before jamming), but it's been a while ago.

Finally, when I do load it, I always first chamber a round by inserting a magazine with just 1 round in it, because of my friend's experience above. I then switch on the safety and put in a fresh fully loaded mag (7+1).
 
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I'm curious (not so much for Plodder, but for the rest of y'all who carry a 1911 with the hammer down) why when there is so much actual evidence that the 1911 was designed to be carried C&L would you do otherwise?

If the hammer back looks too scary, why not just get a different pistol?
 
Kind of an odd question to ask after you've already committed to a 1911 design.

The answer is, as you know by now, cocked & locked.

I suggest if this is the road you are going down, stay with it forever. Drawing and sweeping the safety on a 1911-style pistol while simultaneously depressing the grip safety and acquiring a sight picture and pressing the trigger takes a lot of practice.
It must be done enough so that all movements become unconscious. If you grip a Glock or a revolver 10 years from now you should be subliminally swiping that thumb safety. That's what you'll have to do if the S ever hits the fan.
 
Something to think about... when do most unintented discharges take place with a handgun?

Could that be when the gun is being loaded/unloaded??
 
Lee-

I know that the US Army is using fewer "clearing barrels" now because many people have decided the extra loading and unloading (with our standard "pull the trigger to prove the chamber is empty" drill) was causing more NDs than it was preventing.


I'm just curious about the guys who think differently than I do. I read up on different designs, and then chose a 1911 for my CCW over a decade ago. I chose the 1911 because of the safeties inherent in the design. If you have a well made 1911, it's as safe as a pistol gets.
 
As much as some of the people I've heard say 'My safety is between my ears' or the like have scared me in the past, there really is some truth to that concept. Safety has to be a conscious thing, a person really needs to be 'fully present' or 'in the moment' or whatever, when handling a firearm. It's the mistakes, the mental slips, the forgetfulness, any of many human failings that suddenly bite us with a BANG when we didn't expect one.

The designed-in safety features of the firearm can certainly help protect us from ourselves - but only to a certain extent. Most of 'safety' is up to us where firearms are concerned. And as far as I am concerned, the less a loaded handgun is fondled, the less likelihood there is for brain flatulence to happen.

OPMMV of course...
 
First of all, forget about "using" the half-cock notch for carry. The notch has one purpose and one purpose only, to provide a measure of protection if the hammer slips while you're uncocking it.

Why anyone thinks it's safe and smart to lower a hammer on a loaded round is beyond me.

As for the "I can cock the hammer just as fast..." crowd, ummm, no. Seriously?? When you acheive a firing grip with the 1911, your thumb is exactly where it needs to be to pop the safety. It's nowhere near where it needs to be to pull back on the hammer spur. At least not while retaining a secure grip on the gun. And the safety can be released in an instant while the pistol is being presented, without any separate motion.
If it was "just as fast", you'd undoubtedly see Rob Leatham or his competitors trying it out. They don't. For a reason. It ain't fast.

Plus, with this method of carry, you still have to drop the hammer on a live primer. Not good.

There is a school of thought that promotes carry with safety off, slide down on an empty chamber. The Israelis taught this for years, but remember that this was an administrative solution to the fact that they were fielding many different kinds of pistols from all over the world, and were looking for a common manual of arms that could be taught. They didn't teach it because it was the "best" or "safest" way. It was just based on similarity of operation.

If you carry this way, the hammer can be cocked or not. Cocked, it gives you the small advantage of not having to fight the mainspring tension as you withdraw the slide. But if the thumb safety inadvertently gets applied, it'll hang you up for a second or two until you sort out the problem. Not good in a high-stress situation.

Cocked and locked it where it's at with the 1911. Feel like you want a thumb break between the hammer and the slide? Knock yourself out, I have a couple of holsters just like that. And Jeff Cooper mentions just that type of holster in "To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak The Truth".

Ther are so many redundant safeties on the 1911 that it doesn't make sense to carry (for self-defense, at least) in any fashion besides Condition One.
 
Just acquired a new Kimber Micro 9 which is a largely 1911 design. ( I say largely, because it does not appear to have a grip safety) It was purchased for concealed carry. Heretofore, I have not carried cocked and locked, but have used other designs. I have been tempted to carry with a full mag, but unloaded chamber, as my preferred method of carry, depending on dress and circumstances is inside the pocket.

I respect all the opinions which say the 1911 was designed for cocked and locked carry. Any concerns however if no grip safety and carrying inside the pocket?
 
wjwlawz said:
Just acquired a new Kimber Micro 9 which is a largely 1911 design. ( I say largely, because it does not appear to have a grip safety) It was purchased for concealed carry. Heretofore, I have not carried cocked and locked, but have used other designs. I have been tempted to carry with a full mag, but unloaded chamber, as my preferred method of carry, depending on dress and circumstances is inside the pocket.

I respect all the opinions which say the 1911 was designed for cocked and locked carry. Any concerns however if no grip safety and carrying inside the pocket?
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I carry my Sig P938 cocked and locked. No grip safety. I use a good pocket holster and NOTHING else in the pocket.
 
As originally designed, the early Colts didn't have a grip safety. The designer didn't think it was necessary, and JMB knew a thing or two. The grip safety came about as a result of the US Army Cavalry units expressing the desire to have one.

As an aside, years ago a popular modification was to pin the grip safety. At times, folks wouldn't get a proper grip on the pistol and would not completely disengage the grip safety. People were totally rabid for and against it. What did come out of that was the newer style grip safeties with the "speed bump" making disengagement much more positive.

Personally, I have never needed a pinned safety or a speed bump. After almost five decades using a 1911 I've sort of learned how to grip it properly and don't worry about it being there.
 
Wow! An oldie but goodie resurrected. I love it.
As the OP of this thread, I can tell you that since the OP, nearly 5 years ago now (unbelievable), that I have carried in Condition 1 ever since. The weapon has never become possessed and tried to discharge of its own accord, I have not dropped it & caused a ND or any other misfortune. It just resides comfortably in my holster, or is promptly removed and placed into my bedside lock box all while in Condition 1. My theory is the less fumbling around and manipulating with a round in the chamber, the better.

Seriously, if carrying for SD, Condition 1 in my opinion is the only way to go. This point was hammered home to me during a training session when it was demonstrated how quickly an aggressor can be on top of you from even 20 ft. away. No time for manipulating a slide, even if prepared for it and not a pile of shaking adrenalin infested nerves.
 
Thanks for all the replies and thought. Can anyone recommend a good inside the pocket holster for the Kimber Micro 9.
 
You should always carry the same way every time. Mixing it up is a surefire way to run into trouble under stress. Carry your 1911 cocked and locked. The gun has more than one built in safety feature that combined with a holster that covers the trigger and good common sense will prevent it from going off unintentionally. When your life is in imminent danger of being snuffed out you sure don't want to have to think about cocking the hammer or racking the slide.
 
plodder said:
Wow! An oldie but goodie resurrected. I love it.
As the OP of this thread, I can tell you that since the OP, nearly 5 years ago now (unbelievable), that I have carried in Condition 1 ever since. The weapon has never become possessed and tried to discharge of its own accord, I have not dropped it & caused a ND or any other misfortune. It just resides comfortably in my holster, or is promptly removed and placed into my bedside lock box all while in Condition 1. My theory is the less fumbling around and manipulating with a round in the chamber, the better.

Seriously, if carrying for SD, Condition 1 in my opinion is the only way to go. This point was hammered home to me during a training session when it was demonstrated how quickly an aggressor can be on top of you from even 20 ft. away. No time for manipulating a slide, even if prepared for it and not a pile of shaking adrenalin infested nerves.
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So...if the OP comes back, is it still a Zombie thread? o_O (Or is it AAALLLIVVVVE!!!) :what:

Actually, I don't think I've ever seen an OP come back to a resurrected old thread. It is cool to have that feedback and closure.
 
Owen Sparks said:
I have handed my locked and cocked 1911 to enough people at the range .......
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I'm wondering why anyone would hand a loaded and cocked firearm to anyone else, under any circumstance. You've done two things, at least: You just disarmed yourself, and armed someone else. And regardless of anyone's intentions, passing a loaded and cocked firearm is usually against any reasonable shooting range's rules, and also violates basic gun safety.

As for 1911 carry, cocked and locked is essentially the same as carrying any striker-fired pistol with one in the chamber and the safety on. If the striker-fired pistol does not have a grip safety in addition to the slide safety, then Condition One on a 1911 has an even higher safety factor. My 1911 is only carried C-1.
 
With a Series 80 Colt designed firing pin lock I have no qualms about carrying any of my Colt 1911s. I have a Commander in .45 and a Government in .40 S&W. Both have the firing pin lock and 'cocked & locked' is the only mode I'd carry them in for protection.

bangswitch said:
I'm wondering why anyone would hand a loaded and cocked firearm to anyone else, under any circumstance. You've done two things, at least: You just disarmed yourself, and armed someone else. And regardless of anyone's intentions, passing a loaded and cocked firearm is usually against any reasonable shooting range's rules, and also violates basic gun safety.
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Well my WIFE is not someone I worry about, neither are my friends on the range NOR folks at the IDPA club when we shoot matches.


Deaf
 
dprice3844444 said:
ifound the best way,i bought a glock.no worries about the thumb safety accidently becoming disingaged and accidently blowing my butt off causing brain damage.
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Some will call me a nervous nelly, but I'd go with a 1911 cocked and locked before I'd cc a Glock. I don't cc any striker fired gun w/out a thumb safety. Either long DA pull (PF-9) or an engaged thumb safety. I realize this is just my opinion, but that's what I feel comfortable with.

If I had a Glock, I'd get one of these:

http://www.gunnuts.net/2016/12/28/the-gadget-a-striker-control-device-for-glocks/

I am in fact ordering two of these as belated Christmas presents for close friends that have partaken of the Glock Kool-Aid :)
 
wjwlawz said:
Thanks for all the replies and thought. Can anyone recommend a good inside the pocket holster for the Kimber Micro 9.
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Strongly recommend Bob Mika's custom made pocket holsters. See multiple threads in THR for high praise and recommendations.
 
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