Quantcast

Colt 1911 Making Comeback

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Guy B. Meredith, Jul 19, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,383
    Location:
    Salem, Oregon
  2. 357 Terms

    357 Terms Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2010
    Messages:
    943
    Location:
    Indiana
  3. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,383
    Location:
    Salem, Oregon
    OOpps! I have once more been caught in Fox's tendency to mix ancient with the new. When you link to News, Sports, etc. They sometimes have old stuff mixed in on the banner page.

    I haven't seen any fall off or "resurgence" in interest in the 1911 here over the years and thought it curious they would take that angle.
     
  4. JT-AR-MG42

    JT-AR-MG42 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    494
    I can believe anything concerning redundancy and wasted spending from our Government.

    Source? Those guys weren't given the name 'The Faux News Channel', they earn it every day.

    JT
     
  5. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    25,768
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    LOL, the 1911 has been extremely popular for over 100 years now and just might be popular 100 years from now if were are still using centerfire by then...
     
  6. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Huh?....

    I guess a few of these forum members & maybe some Foxy staff didn't read Hamilton Yam's recent item about how many top cadre/tactics trainers are carrying & advising the use of 9x19mm sidearms. :rolleyes:
    Yam's gun press article(2014) is based on what he said was serious problems holding & firing 1911 platform pistols hour after hour day after day. :uhoh:
    Yam is no closet commando or gunshop ranger either. He co-owns 10-8 Performance & was widely known as a top 1911 custom pistol maker.
    He decided to switch to a M&P 9mm & feels fully able to defend himself or conduct the same SWAT drills & tactics he did with the 1911a1 .45acp model.
    Pat Rodgers, a well known training expert, retired NYPD officer & retired USMCR officer says he carrys a M&P 9mm sidearm too.

    If instructors & LE units are now using 9x19mm pistols over 1911s, does that mean it's all over for the .45acp? Maybe not, but times are changing.
     
  7. 19-3Ben

    19-3Ben Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,149
    Location:
    CT
    ^^
    Id bet that for every 1911 in a holster, you see at least one and probably several polymer 9mm pistols.
    But the 1911 is popular enough that everyone and his uncle is making one, and somehow the market seems to support it. How many companies have STOPPED selling a 1911?
    It should tell you about their popularity.
     
  8. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,533
    I dunno- to stage a comeback it would have to go away first. While the use of the 1911 among PDs is virtually nil there are still millions of them out there. Just cruise over to Bud's and pull up their selection of 1911s. It's stunning how many companies make them, from Turkish and South American companies to American giants like Colt, Smith & Wesson, Remington and Sig (if we call the latter American).

    I doubt the 1911 will ever make much of a comeback as a mainstream choice for LEO and military, though. There are so many other designs now. Polymer is the present trend and as materials science advances I doubt we'll all steel guns winning back any ground.
     
  9. Skyshot

    Skyshot Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    936
    Location:
    Tn.
    The trend now is lighter, simpler and easy to rack the slide type for those wimpy carriers. The 1911 is old, and in today's digital/iphone society, the new improved polymer, striker fired, fully adjustable is what every one of us want's! mmmm.... maybe not.
     
  10. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,794
    Location:
    Garrettsville, Oh.
    I read the article written by mr. Yam and referenced in a previous post. I came to the conclusion that his tastes had changed to favor plastic guns and justified it with overblown examples and opinions.
     
  11. pendennis

    pendennis Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    643
    I can remember, in the 1970's, that most gun makers resources were still going into revolvers. Colt wasn't exactly flooding the market with 1911's, Ruger and S&W weren't even in the market.

    Most folks remembered 1911's as noisy clankers from GI days. However, folks like Jim Clark and others already knew that the 1911 was a fine platform. They machined parts, tightened up the gun, and voila! Not an overnight sensation, but word of mouth and winning matches started the flood.

    As the "boutique" shops cleaned up, Kimber and others figured they could get in on the renaissance. It also didn't hurt that the Glock could be a foil for die-hard 1911 fans.

    While there's enough business to go around, folks have to have issues to support their views:
    • Glocks don't _______ (fill in the blank).
    • If John Browning had intended ______ (fill in another blank).
    • Kimber does/doesn't ______ (yet another blank)

    The lists go on endlessly.

    It also keeps an infinite (or so it seems) number of bloggers busy.

    Vive la difference!!
     
  12. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Why DA revolvers lasted as long as they did......

    This post could be a different topic but Id add it here.
    To me, one big reason why DA revolvers stayed popular or were in wide use by law enforcement or private citizens was the ammunition. ;)

    Semi auto pistols in general were not known for 100% feeding/cycles with JHP or defense type ammo they way they are in 2014. :uhoh:
    Cops & CCW holders felt safer with .357magnum or .38spl that were reliable.

    Many people were leery of a 15/16/18 shot pistol thinking the gun would jam a lot or break. :uhoh:

    Today, both gun designs & engineering for bullets has improved greatly.
     
  13. pendennis

    pendennis Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    643
    Just to expand a bit on Rustyshackelford's comment:

    At one point, it was thought that you could only get one or the other. However, as machine tools gained greater accuracy, and CAD/CAM became embedded, you now can get both. Compromises have, in a large part, gone away.

    Semiautos are simpler, and with more precise manufacture, they've gained an edge that revolvers can no longer offer. Revolvers, even with modern manufacturing are still far more complicated. However, revolvers do offer one edge - On a FTF, you just have to pull the trigger again; something a lot of the semiautos can't do.
     
  14. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,153
    Location:
    West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
    Humm not necessarily. There are a lot of semi-auto that have pins that have to be driven out and little springs waiting for their chance to escape and launch into a deep, dark part of your room never to be seen again.
     
  15. chieftain

    chieftain Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,264
    Location:
    The Free State of Arizona
    Lots of hyperbole here.

    The new pistols are tremendous, I really enjoy them them, and there is a bunch to choose from.. Presently I have parked my SIG's, HK's, etc... for my Walther PPQ's when I want or feel a need for a 9mm or high capacity. I have given my married daughter and son-in-law a SR9 and a XDm 9a long with a couple of long guns. My single daughter, I gave her a Colt Combat Elite on her 21st birthday 8 years ago, and last year she got a Shield 9mm, and a mossy 20ga too.

    My point is that there are many good reasons to pick what you carry for your purposes. My only advise for folks that carry and use 1911 pistols is to understand how they work, ande either have a very close personal relationship with a good 1911 gunsmith, or learn how to take care of them yourself.

    7 times I have used my secondary side arm, a 1911A1 in combat. Three times a S&W 38spl was my secondary in combat.

    Today when I go out, I will have either a Colt LtWgt Commander in 45acp, or a Walther PPQ in 9mm. + one additional magazine with either weapon.

    I do not feel under gunned with either. I learned years ago, starting in the terrain around Khe Sanh that if I put my bullets where they needed to go, either the 38 or the 45 would do it's job. If I did not do my job, caliber wasn't the issue.

    Today because of the arthritis in my arms, wrists, and hands, the Colt generally feels better to me, and is thinner to carry. I use either a Milt Sparks VMII horsehide/shark, or a Kramer 1 1/2 horsehide. I have a copy of each for all my carry weapons, past and present. (RE: the PPQ, I may have the first Milt Sparks VM II ever made for that variant, the guy had originally said no to availability. Then he told me to hold on and they checked that days mail and such. Lo and behold the mold had just been received. So I started the 6 month clock on my holster build.)

    by the way my BUG is still either a hammerless, or shrouded 'J' frame airweight in 38, now with a Crimson Trace grip.

    Buy a good quality RELIABLE weapon (today there are many to choose from unlike in my day), train, train, train, then practice 3 times more than that.

    Learn your weapon, at Parris Island we were required to be able to field strip and reassemble our 1911A1's and M14's, blind folded. (Don't want to turn a light on at night when your weapon "Craps the bed" in a firefight. It would give popularity a 'very' SHORT lived but new meaning.)

    And learn how to clean your weapon properly, and EVERY time you use it. Maintenance means much more than just cleaning. Inspect, replace parts particularly springs and extractors on schedule. Learn how to take your weapons down to their smallest components. One day you will be glad you did.

    Think of a future where only those of you that are grandfathered in to the guns you presently own have guns. How many factory's or gunsmith's going to be around for you then? Buy extra parts now, and at least one duplicate back up. Personally I get three, one to carry, one to shoot/compete with, and a third for home defense back up of the other two.

    Some folks think my orthodoxy on these subjects is silly and old fashion. As an oLd Vietnam vet who was later a DI, I know what helped me and some of my troops survive. I don't know how many medals and Purple Hearts I need to qualify as experienced.

    Go figure.

    Fred

    "I no longer fight the NVA, now I must fight the VA." -- Me
     
  16. pendennis

    pendennis Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    643
    As with any statement in a short blog discussion, there are some generalizations, so please forgive.

    I can affirmatively reply to your statement. I bought a used Gold Cup National Match a couple of years ago. I always disassemble my pistols into a small parts bin for all the obvious reasons. When I removed the sear pin, I inverted the frame and let things drop into the bin. After finishing the cleaning, I started reassembly.

    When finished, I looked in the parts bin, discovering two additional parts (depressor, and depressor spring). What!?!?!. Back to the manual. No luck. Went to Numrich's site, and found both parts. Disassemble gun, locate and try to install depressor parts. Now, why can't I seat everything at once? Start web search, and find out how to handle.

    You guessed it. That tiny spring shot out burying itself into a wall recess. Magnet extension saves me. Then I realized that I needed something to keep the spring in place while reassembling. Heavy dose of grease. Works, but not perfectly. Lost the spring finally, and ordered four from Brownell's. I still have two. Two are in the depths of my gun room somewhere.

    :D :D :D
     
  17. Potatohead

    Potatohead Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5,374
    I dug your post Chieftan.
     
  18. maxxhavoc

    maxxhavoc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,080
    Location:
    SC Lowcountry
    One of my favorite range guns is a 9mm 1911, and I carry an XDS 45. I turned around the old 1911-vs-9mm argument. My 1911 (one of them) is 9mm and my 45 is plastic. Times are indeed changing.
     
  19. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Ayoob; semi auto vs revolver.....

    Top instructor & author Massad Ayoob wrote a detailed article many years ago about the pros & cons of both types.
    I'm not going to rewrite the entire thing but a few points were already made.
    Ayoob also stated a DA revolver was good for CQB or barricade type shooting where you can use cover, since the barrel does not move or need space like a pistol. It's minor but a true factor.
    I for one, can't really argue over not packing a semi auto pistol in 2014. If you can tote 25-50 rounds of a mid caliber compared to a DA revolver of the same weight & size that may have 18-36 rounds total, which would you pick? ;)
     
  20. M1GarandDeerHunter

    M1GarandDeerHunter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Wisconsin, in the sticks somewhere
    Chieftain, you rock.
     
  21. Captain33036

    Captain33036 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Messages:
    421
    Location:
    SE FL
    Looking over the market, since Colt introduced the Marine Recon CQB side arm, IIRC, SIG then introduced what appeared to be a pretty close copy, the scorpion 1911. Sand cerakote, rail and G10 grips...about as close to the Colt as you could get (please focus on the gun, not the shooting...it was free hand and I am not a young guy any longer :O):

    SIG1911Scorp1_zpsd77789a9.jpg

    And...I will be the first to confess, the civilian version of the Colt Marine CQB really caught my attention. I like having a rail on my HD arm and I always wanted a Colt (Had other 1911's). Well...with TWO reasons to buy .....you can guess:

    ColtRail45_zps0418b9fd.jpg

    Recently, SA has come out with a 9mm version of the Range Officer and just now, a compact version of the RO in .45acp.

    SARO9_zpsc12f0963.jpg

    In this time, RIA has introduced more versions and Ruger came out with theirs.

    Yes, I would say there is a resurgence in the 1911 platform, and it is great to see.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  22. Magnumite

    Magnumite Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Belcamp, Maryland
    Polymer striker fired and metal hammer autos. Both work but nothing like the heft and 'being there' for the metal guns.

    I read Hilton Yams's article and the change was based on maintenance of effort of the two platforms. Switching to the M&P greatly reduced reliability maintenance. Greater acceptance of proper design external extractor on the 1911 would go a long way to reducing much of that time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  23. george burns

    george burns Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,842
    I read Yams article, he was speaking on the maintenance. issues of the 1911 when it came to police departments. the article about the resurgence of the 1911 probably is more about the military's search for a more powerful cartridge for the troops.
     
  24. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Messages:
    8,178
    Location:
    Greeley, CO
    Hey, I say shoot what you like. I have a 1911, and I like it fine. My bedside gun is a XD9, and I really like it. I could argue for or against either, and have in the past. At the end of the day however, I feel perfectly well armed with either.

    I also enjoy revolvers a great deal. All the points made thus far both pro and con for revolvers have some truth to them, but at the end of the day I feel well armed with a revolver for a couple of reasons. First, I feel I shoot a revolver more accurately. Second, whether it is true or not, I have a higher comfort level with revolvers in terms of reliability. I have no real empirical reason to feel that way since my autos have all proven to be extremely reliable, but somewhere deep inside me that belief persists. Third, I like the caliber choices that revolvers offer that autos do not. Specifically, I feel that the .357 is the best and most versatile all around pistol cartridge there is, and with proper bullet selection, I feel it is pretty hard to beat as a defensive caliber. I know there are autos that are chambered for it, but they are expensive and relatively hard to find as opposed to, say, a GP100.
     
  25. dsk

    dsk Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    776
    Actually (and ironic perhaps) the 1911 was never a mainstream LEO choice during its entire 100+ years of existence. G-men and Texas Rangers used them to some extent in the old days, and during the 1970s there was brief interest in the 1911 as a police duty arm when several California departments either issued or authorized it. But the DA revolver was always king, followed by DA/SA 9mm (and later .40) semi-auto pistols, and then the polymer guns. Aside from a few notable exceptions (like many SWAT teams) the idea of a cocked single-action pistol on a duty officer's belt has filled administrators and ignorant members of the public alike with horror. Forget the fact that modern striker-fired pistols are little more than pre-cocked weapons with no manual safety, the fact that John Q. Public can't see a visibly cocked hammer makes them okay to issue out.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice