Colt Dragoons Purpose?

[jmar]

What besides the looks 'which are nice' is the purpose of the Dragoon in the modern day. It doesn't pack any more power than a 1858 Remington 'cylinder size is the same'. And weighs more and is unwieldy.

Now i'm trying to think objectively so i'm excluding historical provenance and personal preference. And i'm not saying i dislike the gun because i actually really like it. But i always see people say it's better than the walker. And yes i know that was true 150 years ago when the walkers were grenading. But in the Modern day i think the walker is a much superior gun to own if you had to choose between the two. Its size and weight actually serves a purpose.

So to be clear i'm just responding to the debate and trying to say 'in my opinion' the walker in the modern day is vastly superior. Which contradicts about all the forum posts i ever read about the walker. It's longer barrel and more importantly cylinder give it unrivaled power. While the dragon is just heavy to be heavy. Thoughts?

 

[CraigC]

'cylinder size is the same'

How do you figure that?

The Dragoon is just as superior to the Walker as it ever was and for all the same reasons. If not moreso, because A LOT more folks are shooting them now than ever were originally. It's 2" shorter, it's half a pound lighter, it's almost as powerful, its loading lever doesn't drop at every shot, along with all the other minor improvements made in the final design of the 3rd model Dragoon.

 

[Old Fuff]

It's longer barrel and more importantly cylinder give it unrivaled power. While the dragon is just heavy to be heavy. Thoughts?

More cylinder/chamber length = bigger powder charge, which usually means more power. Colt's problem was that they took a good thing too far, as ultimately most of the Walker cylinders self-destructed in a KABOOM!

This isn't an issue with modern replicas with cylinders made from far superior steel.

Colt solved the problem by shortening the cylinder to in affect reduce the amount of powder the chamber would hold. Then the back end of the barrel was lengthened to match up to the shorter cylinder.

The resulting revolver wasn't much lighter because otherwise the dimensions were mostly the same as the Walker. Collectors were the ones who gave it the name Dragoon. Colt simply called it a "holster pistol" - as in saddle-holster, not the kind intended to be strapped onto a person.

 

[jmar]

How do you figure that?

The Dragoon is just as superior to the Walker as it ever was and for all the same reasons. If not moreso, because A LOT more folks are shooting them now than ever were originally. It's 2" shorter, it's half a pound lighter, it's almost as powerful, its loading lever doesn't drop at every shot, along with all the other minor improvements made in the final design of the 3rd model Dragoon.

I should have clarified closely the same. The Dragoon has a cylinder only 1/4 of an inch longer than the 1858. But the 1858 has a longer barrel so i'd wager power and velocity is about he same.

 

[jmar]

More cylinder/chamber length = bigger powder charge, which usually means more power. Colt's problem was that they took a good thing too far, as ultimately most of the Walker cylinders self-destructed in a KABOOM!

This isn't an issue with modern replicas with cylinders made from far superior steel.

Colt solved the problem by shortening the cylinder to in affect reduce the amount of powder the chamber would hold. Then the back end of the barrel was lengthened to match up to the shorter cylinder.

The resulting revolver wasn't much lighter because otherwise the dimensions were mostly the same as the Walker. Collectors were the ones who gave it the name Dragoon. Colt simply called it a "holster pistol" - as in saddle-holster, not the kind intended to be strapped onto a person.

Yes that is my entire premise, the Walker is almost the same size but has much more power. Which makes it the winner to me.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

The dragoon holds up to 50 grains of powder, and yes pietta remingtons have about that capacity, (I don't shoot that much powder in mine) but they aren't made to shoot that much powder, whereas the dragoon was.

 

[Old Fuff]

Yes that is my entire premise, the Walker is almost the same size but has much more power. Which makes it the winner to me.

Understand we are discussing replicas, not the original gun. Ultimately Colt made peace with the War Department by selling them Dragoons at a reduced price to compensate for the Walkers that KABOOMed!!

A lot of the performance you are thinking of is really muzzle flash and smoke. But if you enjoy the pyrotechnics by all means go ahead.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I prefer the Dragoon because I shoot smokeless cartridge .45Colt and the Dragoon has a more .45C cartridge friendly cylinder length. They are plenty big enough (I like um!!) the Walker is the one that's "heavy to be heavy "!

Oh, the other purpose for the Dragoon model is . . . . . . . to make me happy!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

 

[Old Fuff]

I may ruin jmar'e day.

Walker loaded with 60 grains of Goex FFFg under a 147 gr. lead ball. 1,171 FPS

Dragoon same but with 50 gr powder charge. 1,072 FPS.

Now I will admit you are gaining - give or take - 100 FPS, but I hardly think in the real world it makes any practical difference.

But if carrying around that ultimate cannon floats you're boat by all means go ahead.

 

[rodwha]

"Colt's problem was that they took a good thing too far, as ultimately most of the Walker cylinders self-destructed in a KABOOM!"

The majority of the Walker cylinders did not go kaboom.

"The dragoon holds up to 50 grains of powder, and yes pietta remingtons have about that capacity..."

My Pietta Remington NMA holds nowhere near 50 grns. It might get close to 40 grns without a wad with a ball.

Initially I needed a 2nd model Dragoon, but these days I'd much prefer the Walker if for no other reason the history behind it (the gun that made Colt a common household name these days, and for Texas) though I'd fix the lever latch, which is simple.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

My Pietta Remington NMA holds nowhere near 50 grns. It might get close to 40 grns without a wad with a ball.

You're right. I measured homemade powder by volume in the remington, probably not a fair comparison, I should check regular store bought powder.

 

[Panzerschwein]

What is the purpose of any cap and ball revolver "in the modern day"?

Amusement and historical appreciation. The Dragoons with their 50 grain powder charges (more than the 1858 Remingtons BTW) are great for amusement. Big, heavy, and for the time, powerful and accurate guns.

 

[Stormson]

50grs of 777 would be one HELL of a charge.... Frankly, unless I where in Grizzly country each and every day, I cant even imagine what I would do with 60.

If I where in griz land every day I could get a LOT more power with a LOT less weight out of a S&W Mod. 29.

Im pretty sure, like Old Fuff said, a LOT of the 60grs would just be wasted in "pretty sparkles" anyway. I'd have a LOT of fun with either the Dragoon OR the Walker... But where I live the '58 and the '60 are really all the serious workhorses I need... The weight and recoil of either of the horse pistols would only serve to slow me down when I really NEED to be taking my time in a hurry!

 

[Malamute]

FWIW, the Dragoons seem a much more practical gun in all aspects than the Walker. Walkers never really captured my attention like the Dragoons did either, there never were many Walkers in circulation in any event, and the history of their use is much more limited, though quite important in its own right.

Id like to shoot a deer and buffalo with a Dragoon for some reason.

 

[rodwha]

"Id like to shoot a deer and buffalo with a Dragoon for some reason."

 

[4v50 Gary]

Rodwa - you are a sportsman.

 

[bannockburn]

Given my druthers I prefer the practical improvements of the Colt Dragoon (my favorite is the Third Model), over the historical significance of the Colt Walker.

 

[CraigC]

I should have clarified closely the same. The Dragoon has a cylinder only 1/4 of an inch longer than the 1858. But the 1858 has a longer barrel so i'd wager power and velocity is about he same.

The `58's barrel is a half inch longer, which is practically nothing. You're going to get more out of the Dragoons quarter inch longer cylinder than the half inch of barrel difference.

 

[Panzerschwein]

One thing the Colt's Dragoon does better than the Remington New Model Army is to thunk someone on the head with when you run out!!

 

[jmar]

The `58's barrel is a half inch longer, which is practically nothing. You're going to get more out of the Dragoons quarter inch longer cylinder than the half inch of barrel difference.

I'm willing to bet the difference in velocity is about 25 FPS averaged. If you've ever chronographed a blackpowder gun you'd know they aren't reliable FPS wise anyways. Some shots you may get 900 and the next 1000 with the same amount of powder.

People think the dragoon is a powerful gun because its size but it just isn't. So much excess metal everywhere. Anyways this isn't a comparison of the Rem and Dragoon. The walker also suffers from all the problems of the dragoon but is vastly more powerful. So i guess i just don't understand why people say the Dragoon is a better gun.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I'm willing to bet the difference in velocity is about 25 FPS averaged. If you've ever chronographed a blackpowder gun you'd know they aren't reliable FPS wise anyways. Some shots you may get 900 and the next 1000 with the same amount of powder.

People think the dragoon is a powerful gun because its size but it just isn't. So much excess metal everywhere. Anyways this isn't a comparison of the Rem and Dragoon. The walker also suffers from all the problems of the dragoon but is vastly more powerful. So i guess i just don't understand why people say the Dragoon is a better gun.

I wouldn't call the Walker "vastly more powerful" than a Dragoon.

The Dragoons are just "product improved" Walkers in a way. As they progressed, they fixed the "exploding cylinder", "dropping lever", and some other issues with the gun such as excessive weight and length.

 

[rodwha]

10 additional grains of powder is significant. I highly doubt the average addition would be a mere 25 fps.

 

[Old Fuff]

10 additional grains of powder is significant. I highly doubt the average addition would be a mere 25 fps.

If you spread an old bed sheet or tarp in front of the muzzle you'll find some unburned grains of powder. That and some of the delightful muzzle flash that so may enjoy is powder that is still burning outside the barrel with the ball well on its way.

 

[Old Fuff]

One thing the Colt's Dragoon does better than the Remington New Model Army is to thunk someone on the head with when you run out!!

Improper procedure !

You are supposed to drop it on his foot.

 

[Tinpan58]

I am sure he preferred a rife for taken Buffalo. But he took his share with his 1858. (It never failed him).