Combat magnum-Four inch barrel and a full lug ?

[The Doc]

Gentlemen,

I have come across this Combat Magnum .357 K frame revolver. The serial number K262XXX dates it to 1955.
1. Did S&W make a full lug for their 4 inch barrels in that era ?
2. Was the top strap checkering on a combat magnum common ?

I do apologize for the poor quality cell phone camera pics.

Thank you.

 

[highpower]

It would really help to have better and bigger pictures. I can't tell much from what you have posted.

To answer your questions:
1. no

2. no

It looks a though there has been a bit of custom work on that gun.

 

[The Doc]

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[Fleetman]

it looks like what the 586 was modeled after

 

[18DAI]

That barrel is a recently manufactured example. Up until 2007 all 586 barrels had nicely done "Smith & Wesson" rollmarks on the left side and "357 Magnum" rollmarks on the right side.

The large ang ugly 357 magnum roll marks on the left side of the barrel were first used on the 586-7 and the current production so-called "classic series" 586's.

I would surmise that someone did a barrel switch recently and had some other customizing (top strap checkering) done to a model 19.

How does it shoot?

 

[The Doc]

deleted

 

[slick6]

What you have there is a N-Frame(Pre Model 27)frame mated to a Model 586 barrel. Take a close look at how far the cylinder is set back in the cylinder frame window-which is the same as for any N-frame and the checkering on the top of the frame was standard for all pre model and Model numbered 27's.

 

[The Doc]

Thaddeus Jones,

Thank you for your reply. I am from India and handguns in .357 magnum caliber here are rather uncommon and profoundly expensive. The .38 special revolver is relatively cheap and a lot of them get modified to fire a .357 magnum which is illegal and very dangerous.

This is a no model number revolver, the serial number dates it to 1955 (so far so good), the confusion starts when one sees the full lug and the top strap checkering. A friend of mine is interested in buying this and he sent me these pictures.

Another point to ponder would be the roll mark on the left side of the barrel; while on a model 586 barrel it says "S&W .357 MAGNUM", here on this revolver's barrel it says ".357 S&W MAGNUM" . A company variation or an after market error on part of the guy who tinkered with it ?

The worry now is .....

1. Is it a genuine .357 where the barrel has been replaced and checkering done?
2. Is it a .38 special of some sort modified to fire a .357 mag round ?

I have asked my friend to check the serial number behind the ejector star and see if that matches with the serial number on the bottom of the grip.

I know I am asking too many questions based on these pictures and I request you to bear with me.

Thank you.

 

[slick6]

Doc:

Well, a pre-model 27 does not have a model number shown on the revolver. also the checkering on the top strap was only factory done on the pre-model 27 as well as the model 27.

 

[osteodoc08]

A 38 special modified to fire 357? Wouldn't the cartridge length be an issue? I'd imagine the cost of proper "modification" would cost as much if not more than a proper 357 chambered revolver.

 

[Archie]

Doc, it is not a factory product

The frame looks like - as Slick 6 already said - a genuine Smith & Wesson revolver frame, large (N frame) size with the original barrel replaced with a fairly recent manufactured S&W barrel from the 586 series.

If the gunsmith who did the work is competent, it is probably safe to shoot. (Without seeing it in person, one cannot guarantee that, of course.)

Were it me considering buying it, I would want to know about how it got in that condition. Who did the work, who owned it prior, how much was it fired and with what ammunition and so forth. Without that, I fear I would pass on purchasing.

 

[hAkron]

I agree this looks like a Pre model 27 large (N) frame. They were never made in .38, only in 357. I agree with the consensus that the barrel is not original, but from the pictures provided, that's the best guess ican make.

 

[Radagast]

The 586 Classic is marked S&W .357 Magnum on the left side of the barrel and had a red ramp front sight. The 2007 special run ditto.
The original Model 581 & 586 were available with the black ramped front sight, but only marked Smith & Wesson on the left side.

I'm inclined to think the gun has been severely reworked, with a new serial number stamped on the frame that the Smith thought was correct and a custom barrel that has been engraved to what the Smith thought was correct.

My advice? If it can't be test fired with magnum ammo before purchase, then your friend should pass on it. You don't know if the barrel is correctly threaded for the frame, or of the correct steel for the pressures involved.

 

[Radagast]

Edit:
I agree that it appears to be an N frame.
The serial number is correct for a 1955 K frame, a 1955 N frame would have a serial number between S103000 & S149999. S&W used different prefixes for different models at that time.
The small S&W logo on the left side of the frame means it was either a pre-war .357 Registered Magnum or pre-war .38 /44 Outdoorsman from 1936 and should have a serial number around somewhere between 35037 & 47000.
Potentially it is a .38 special N frame Outdoorsman that has been bored out to .357 magnum and had the top strap checkered. It could be my eyes, but the checkering appears to large for a pre-Model 27.
So again, pass, unless the seller is willing to put a box of full power magnums through it while your friend watches from a safe distance. There is a big difference in the working pressure of the .38 special and the .357 magnum.

 

[hAkron]

There probably are too many unknowns to make this gun worth buying. Is the price low enough that your friend is considering it, even with its mysterious origin?

 

[bannockburn]

I agree with those that say this mystery .357 just has too many undocumented variables to it for it to be worth picking up. I would tell your friend to pass on it.

 

[Jim Watson]

The overall proportions of the gun look like a K frame to me, but there is no need to guess.
A measurement of the cylinder diameter would let us be sure which.

Whether the cylinder is recessed for cartridge rims or not would tell us whether it was a Magnum or a rechambered Special, unless it were an L frame, which I doubt. A measurement of cylinder length would help, too.

I see a number of oddities.
S&W made some full lug M14s and a very few full lug M15s, but they are Specials, not Magnum.

The extractor rod appears to line up with the front latch, indicating the barrel was made for that frame size.

The top strap is not only checkered, it appears level, without the slight step down to the barrel rib common to all my adjustable sight S&Ws except the 2.5" M19.

The rear sight is not standard S&W, the elevation screw is the wrong type and wrong location.

The hammer spur does not look quite right as to width and angle.

The thumb latch may be the old type, but the picture is not clear enough to be sure.

There is no right side picture to show sideplate screws, although I think I detect a cylinder stop screw at the front of the trigger guard in the tiny bottom shot and the left side view.

Considering the location, I am wondering if some enterprising gunsmith started with a WWII Empire surplus .38 and made everything "modern" from scratch in reasonable approximation of S&W features and markings.

 

[The Doc]

Thank you for your inputs gentlemen. I have advised my friend not to go ahead with the deal.

regards.

 

[CraigC]

Definitely not an N-frame as the barrel shank on a 586 barrel would be way too small. I agree that the overall proportions suggest a K frame.