Coming full circle back to lever actions and single actions

[Jason_W]

Long story short, in my early to mid-20s, I was all about old west style or updated old west style firearms. In my late 20s, the job situation turned into a great big turd, and I had to sell most of what I owned to get by.

Every now and then, I would get a little bit of spare cash and I tried out a few other types of firearms (a glock pistol, an inexpensive combo gun, a bolt action carbine). Nothing stuck or felt as right in the hands and as fun to shoot as lever action long guns and single action revolvers.

I'd really like to start rebuilding a collection moving in the direction of classic style firearms. I might even give CAS a try, though I'm not a fan of the idea of dressing up in a costume.

What makes and models are good these days? I'm also contemplating a selection of chamberings. I like the idea of the authentic hyphenated rounds, but I worry about ammo cost and availability.

Throwing an additional wrench into the works is the fact that any gun I buy has to double as a hunting gun (excepting maybe the revolver).

 

[shafter]

I love the old classics, the old western style classics to be particular. I have a Rossi 92 in 357 magnum which is probably one of my favorite firearms. I have it with me now in deer camp as its my hunting rifle. It's partnered with a Ruger Security Six which I've been using lately instead of my Blackhawk. There is something real satisfying about using these old fashioned firearms. I have some modern stuff and it has its place, but to me there is nothing quite like a levergun and a revolver.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

I love my Marlin 1894c .357. I paired it with a Blackhawk convertible but someone wanted it more than I did so I sold it for a double action .357. Maybe I'll pick up another Blackhawk one day.

 

[J-Bar]

Attend any CAS match and you will see folks dressed in the same clothes worn everyday...long sleeved shirt, boots, even cowboy hats are optional. Some go for the Hollywood B-Western look, but that is not required. Costuming should not prevent you from enjoying Cowboy Action Shooting.

My best friend has been taking his 1866 Golden Boy in 44/40 to the deer woods this week. I would not hesitate to use my .45 Colt Model 1873 on whitetails either, although I have other options.

Most CAS/SASS participants reload, and many cast their own bullets. If you shoot a lot it makes good economic sense. So if you roll your own ammo, you have a lot more flexibility. And it's fun too!

 

[Jason_W]

I am set up to roll my own. I'm leaning toward a carbine/revolver in .44 WCF at the moment. there is just something that strikes me as cool about that round.

For longer range work, something in .38-55 or .45-70 would be fun.

 

[SC Shooter]

Look for a Winchester Model 94. This gun goes way back, and there are still good older ones from the 30's, 40's & 50's that are marked as .30WCF instead of the more modern 30-30. With some good shopping you can still get a good price.

 

[gbran]

I love my Blackhawk and my Single Six. Just bought a little Ruger Bearcat for my grandson.

 

[Grayrock]

As an aside- there is a big push right now in CAS to enforce the costume requirements. It is part of how we have fun. If you don't want to dress up, don't have any hopes of going to any national matches. If you just want to plink away at local matches, feel free- we need all the attendees we can get- costumes or not. You are welcome anytime.

 

[22-rimfire]

The Marlin 1894 in either 357 or 44 is what I would get first. I am not a big single action guy, but I have a number. I really like my BFR.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

Do CAS rifles have to be in a pistol caliber or is that just a weird rule for my local group? I thought about getting into since my collection has been gravitating towards old revolvers and rifles. If I could use one of the rifles I already have, I'd go for it, but I don't a lever action in a pistol caliber. Does anyone know if a S&W Safety Hammerless is allowed to be one of the two pistols?

 

[jamesjames]

I got bit by the classic western firearms bug several years ago. I was struggling at the range one day keeping my Smith 329PD (.44 magnum) on the paper. A friend handed me a Colt SAA in .45 Colt. It was an epiphany. I couldn't believe how easy and joyful it was to shoot. how could such an ancient and obviously obsolete gun be so well-designed ergonomically? How could it group so well? How could it speak to me when all I wanted was the latest tacticool thing?

I now have a Marlin 94 in .44 magnum paired with Colts and USFAs in .44 special.

I have a Rossi 92 in .357/38 paired with a USFA in .38 special. (The Winnie Model 92 on which the Rossi is based is the quintessential pistol caliber rifle. The action smooth and lock up is strong. Watch this Hickock45 video and you'll be hooked.)

These are dream kits to shoot and fondle and savor. Quality guns with a ton of history to relate to.

 

[bannockburn]

If I were getting into CAS I think I would be good to go with my Ruger Vaquero, Beretta Stampede, and Rossi Model 92; all in .45 Colt. Even have an older double barrel shotgun I could use.

 

[HawkEyeEarl]

You can hunt with cowboy guns

You can hunt with cowboy guns, is the short answer. Hunt close and shoot well.

Main match rifles and pistols both use pistol calibers for cowboy shooting, SASS and NCOWS such as 45 colt, 44-40, 38 special and others.

Long range match rifles use 45-70, 38-55, even 30-30 and many others.

Most matches I have shot do not have a long range match, though some do, so you can get by with pistol calibers. The long range match is usually optional if one is being staged at a normal cowboy shoot.

All these bullets will be lead cast bullets at the velocities, or below, those commonly in use in 1800's. Of course, for hunting you can modify the load outside the CAS loads if you want, though that is not absolutely necessary if your loads are normal and not downloaded in the extreme.

 

[Palehorseman]

I am set up to roll my own. I'm leaning toward a carbine/revolver in .44 WCF at the moment. there is just something that strikes me as cool about that round.

For longer range work, something in .38-55 or .45-70 would be fun.

I have a 1886 mfg. Colt 1873 in .44 WCF (.44-40) and it is a hoot to shoot with BP.



Also have a 1878 JM Marlin Ballard #5 Pacific in .45-70, it too only fed with BP loads.

 

[Toml]

The Browning BLR is a modern lever action. Uses a detachable magazine and is available in several chamberings. Not the best trigger out there but dead accurate, well-finished rifles.

 

[oldcelt]

Two fine looking weapons of a time long since past.

 

[MBaneACP]

Yes, CAS revolvers have to be in pistol calibers. I shoot either Vaqueros or Blackhawks, because you can hammer nails with the darn things. My main match Blackhawks have way more than 25k .357s through them...most have been cowboy loads (I load to bullet weight/velocity standards equal to 1880s cartridges), but some self-defense loads. BTW, the very best off-hand groups I've ever shot were with a Blackhawk and 125-gr JHP Hornadys during a single action self-defense class at GUNSITE.

My match rifle is Cimarron/Uberti 1873 clone in .38/.357 that has been "short-stroked," that is, the length of throw on the lever has been shortened. Yeah, that's gamey, but interestingly enough in my visiting most of the major arms museums in the U.S., as well as numerous private collections, I've seen lever throws on Winchesters and Marlins as short as mine. Older Marlins are good...Mike Seeklander used my Marlin .357 for an episode of THE BEST DEFENSE and he's completely sold on the short, fast-handling lever gun as a self-defense tool.

I am VERY impressed with the new Winchester 1873 .38/.357. Very smooth out of the box! Almost as smooth as my pre-'64 94 30-30.

In CAS I shoot a Browning BSS side-by-side 12 gauge in competition. For years I used Winchester '97 pumps and their clones, but it was too much like self-abuse...keeping the things running is a 24/7 job! LOL!

I have a set of cowboy guns in .44 Special that I use with .44 Russians, one of my all time favorite calibers...just a bit more expensive to keep running than the .38/.357s. One of my favorite lever guns is a Rossi .44 Magnum have had for many years...it has been shot a lot, mags, Specials, what-have-you.

BTW, we're doing a project for DOWN RANGE on using a Browning BLR take-down as a self-defense rifle in non-permissive environments. We have one in .223, and aside from the fact that the 5-shot magazines are INCREDIBLY expensive and the trigger sucks, it's a nice little gun!

Michael B

 

[SASS#23149]

costuming is very very optional in CAS,so don't let that stop you from joining and shooting matches.One blowhard 'leader' loves to hear himself talk..in print..and is always on the band wagon about something that most of us could care less about.

I started picking up cowboy guns at age 3,and after 60+ years ,they are all that is in my vault still.
If I wanted a carbine to do both jobs,I"d look at an 1873 copy 1st,but model 94's can be had for less money and will suffice,although they're an awful long lever throw for competition.

the ruger vaquero is the handgun of choice for most people in CAS,tank tough and lots of caliber options. I prefer the Colt look and operation of Uberti sixguns,but for hunting i'd go with a vaquero.

 

[peacemaker45]

Pistols: USFAs were the best around, but since they were discontinued, the prices have gone out of sight. Colts are pretty good, but also expensive. Rugers are good and not that expensive. The big frame Rugers are STRONG, while the medium frames are pretty strong. The Italian clones are good once they've been tuned up a little. The big Rugers make excellent hunting guns in .44 Mag, and any of the rest can be had in .357 Mag, which makes an adequate hunting gun.

Lever rifles can be had in rifle calibers, such as .30-30, .38-55, or .45-70; or pistol calibers such as .357, .44, or .45 Colt. The rifle caliber guns are your better choice for hunting, though the pistol caliber guns will work, within their limitations. Pistol caliber, though, is what you need for CAS. The later lever designs, like the Winchester 1892 and Marlin 1894, are much stronger than the early designs, which means that they're well suited to powerful hunting cartridges. However, that strong lockup isn't free, those guns aren't quite as smooth, which means that they aren't quite as fast, which also means they aren't quite as competitive in CAS. Of the late designs, Winchester makes a new 1892 which is excellent but expensive. Marlin makes their 1894, which has had pretty severe quality issues the last few years, but may be staging a comeback. Unless you know what you're looking for, beware. The real bargain in this segment is the Rossi 92, which, at less than half the price of the Winchester, may be rough out of the box, but usually tune up well.

The early designs are the Uberti clones of the Winchester Models of 1860 (called the Henry,) 1866, and 1873. The Henry has too many period correct annoyances built in to make it either a great match rifle or field rifle. The 66 and 73 both work a lot better. They are by far the dominant choice in match rifles these days, but are a bit limited as hunting guns. The 66 can be had a touch cheaper than the 73, but is heavier and weaker. The better hunting rifle would be the 73, firing moderate .357s, or BP equivalent .44 or .45s. It'd make a dandy match rifle too, just a little costlier to shoot in the big bores.

In shotguns, there are 1897 pumps, which will do most things an 870 will. They are, with appropriate techniques, both the easiest guns to learn and the fastest guns in CAS. They don't really look all that old west though, and can be a little glitch prone. Along more classic lines, are the double barrels. They can be hammered or hammer less. The former generally looks cooler, while the latter runs faster. The reigning king at the moment, as well as a fine field choice is the single trigger hammer less SKB. Honorable mention for match use goes to the Browning BSS, and hammered clones of the Colt 1878. Both excellent, strong match guns, but heavy pigs by the standards of upland guns. Lower budget doubles like the Stoegers are generally tolerable as low volume hunting guns, but aren't really up to the rigors of heavy use in competition.

As for caliber choice, the hyphen calibers are best regarded as a hand loader's only prospective. Though factory ammo is available, it's neither common nor cheap. The only real advantage to shooting one is if you're using black powder cartridges in your rifle. The thin brass and bottleneck make an excellent seal to keep fouling out of the action. Otherwise, they're an expensive nuisance. .38/.357 is king in CAS because it's cheap and easy to load and shoot. .45 Colt is also popular, but tricky to get good results from. .44 Special/Mag is less popular, but much easier to load for, as well as being tremendously scalable in power.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

So why the limitation of rifles to pistol calibers? Are they concerned about ricochets or maybe damage to the targets?

 

[peacemaker45]

Yes to both. In CAS you're typically shooting steel plates at 20 yards or so. Thus they require pistol caliber, cast lead bullets, and velocities less than 1400 fps for the rifle.

If you've got a rifle caliber rifle you want to shoot, there are often long range side matches, but main match rifles are pistol caliber by definition.

 

[Jason_W]

I'll probably focus on a lever action carbine first. There is a chance that my wife's job might result in a relocation to California before 2014 is over, so I'll want something for which I can make lead free ammo. If California allows hand loading. That state's gun laws are one intimidating cluster.

 

[shafter]

To me the B-Western look of most cowboy shooters is a little bit of a turn off to me. If I participated I think I'd go for something more traditional.

The other thing that bugs me is using the weakling loads in their guns. I'd feel like such a wuss.

It's not my cup of tea but boy do I enjoy old lever action rifles and sixguns. I may have to tip my hat the the B-Western boys for being a big factor in the current production of these fine weapons.

 

[peacemaker45]

To me the B-Western look of most cowboy shooters is a little bit of a turn off to me. If I participated I think I'd go for something more traditional.

The other thing that bugs me is using the weakling loads in their guns. I'd feel like such a wuss.

It's not my cup of tea but boy do I enjoy old lever action rifles and sixguns. I may have to tip my hat the the B-Western boys for being a big factor in the current production of these fine weapons.

There are two groups that dress what might be called "B-Western," beginners, who tend to wear modern jeans, wrangler type snap shirts and straw hats, and the actual B-Western category shooters. They tend to go all out, with flashy colors, embroidery, sequins and all that. Most shooters dress somewhat more traditionally, at least in most areas I've shot in. There is also another category, called Classic Cowboy which requires its participants to go the extra mile in authenticity. How far, or which direction a person goes is his own choice.

As for loads, light loads reduce recoil, save wear and tear on targets, save wear and tear on an aging population of shooters, and cost less for high volume shooting. That's why a lot of people use them. There's certainly no requirement to do so. That Classic Cowboy category I mentioned earlier also requires .40 caliber or better, so the .32s and .38s are kept out. There are also lots of folks who shoot full case black powder big bores. Again, it's your choice.

So come on out and play. Dress sharp and shoot proper loads if you like, there's a place for you. It'll be fun!

 

[davestarbuck]

I started shooting with Marlin lever actions and Ruger single action revolvers. My fathers guns...

About ten years ago I started buying my own, started with an AR15 and a Glock 19. I've taken instruction from Chris Costa, Pat Rogers, Ken Hackathorn, Gabe Suarez, Jason Falla, and Paul Gomez (RIP)..

Now I mostly shoot my Marlin Cowboy Limited and my Ruger LCR, both in 357 mag! I guess I've gone full circle!