Compact 1911's reliable or only in full size??

[Jedi_7.62]

My dilemna..I've had my eye on a Kimber CDP package compact. Fits me well Have not shot one though. This thing just makes me drool when I see it in the shop. Full size just feels kind of bulky to me.

I've talked to a couple guys recently that have been telling me 1911's are great but only in full size configurations. They seem to be of the mind that all compact and small size 1911's are problematic at best.

If I drop $1,200.00 on a pistol I expect it to be flawless, not just pretty.

Looking for personal experiences with compact 1911's especially any of this model.

Thanks,

 

[MICHAEL T]

I think for 1200 bucks it best be reliable. It seems once you go under 4" some will say4 1/4 " That they become unreliable. The only ones we hear about are mainly the ones that don't work. Never about the thousands that do . I have a sub-compact Llama 3" barrel I have called it a POS several times on the net. I have also been tinkering with it and finely found the right spring combination and now mine is humming along next to my Colts My point is and this applies to all guns ,for everyone we read about not working how many are firing away without a problem.

 

[raghorn]

My Colt Officer's ACP was very finicky and unreliable. It broke my heart to sell it, but I just didn't have the the patience to constantly tune it and I couldn't trust it enough to EDC.

 

[Tom Servo]

I have the CDP Compact (4" bbl, Officer frame), and I've not had a single failure in over 1300 rounds. From what I understand, anything shorter than 4" is a bit touch-and-go, as I can attest from having a godawful Colt Defender a few years back. However, this one's given me no trouble, and it's incredibly accurate.

 

[Vernal45]

I would not go below a 4in 1911.

 

[JMag]

What Vernal said...

 

[71Commander]

I have a Kimber Eclipse Ultra. (3"er) Never had any problems with it. I have a Para C6-45 as well. Just gotta change the recoil spring after 1000 rounds to keep it running right.

 

[TGT]

Sorry, chances are better when they're full size, BUT THEY CAN STILL MALFUNCTION AT ANY SIZE. It's a crap shoot buying 1911's as far as I'm concerned. I've had two 45's . One was a 5" series 70 that jammed once in every 50 rounds. Got rid of it after 3 pistol smiths, 2 months, and another $250 was spent trying to solve that problem.

The other is my Para Ord P-14 that jammed once after 175 rounds. I'm fine with that.

I've heard it both ways with that Kimber. But, 1911's just are not a Sig or Glock!
Personally, just like a Kahr pistol, I will never buy a 1911 new again. I'll run a classified ad and offer to pay top dollar for a used one that looks in great shape, and can demonstrate to me at a firing range that "It never malfunctions". I'd pay for the ammo too. In the long run, it saves me a lot of time. $$, and hassel. . If the used Detonics always worked, I'd have bought one already. Just my 2 cents

 

[larry starling]

IMHO it appears that kimbers in general have had issues with FTE since they have switched to there external extractor. Its my understanding that they(Kimber) have redesigned there extractor 4 times. I carry a Colt officers model that has been converted to a FLGR and it is 100 percent reliable. My wife carrys a Colt defender and we have had no issues. I think the recoil springs in these smaller guns take a beating and need to be replaced more often. Some people say replace after 300 rds or so. compact 1911's are reliable just choose carefully when you purchase one.

 

[Ala Dan]

After selling many of the Pro and Ultra Kimbers with feedback from user's,
I hear that these firearms with barrels of less than 5" in length
are ammo sensitive. Some report that their particular weapons had a hard
time even feeding 230 grain MC "ball ammo". My only experience with the
short barreled .45's has been with Colt's Combat Commander and Officers
Model series 80's and if memory serves me correctly, I don't recall having
this problem?

 

[ulflyer]

Defender Runs Good

I keep repeating my tale about the recently purchased used Defender that shoots SWC's with ease. My feeling is that many guys are simpley repeating what they have heard others say that "anything under......don't work" without any actual experience with the shorties. As many have already said "any gun can malfunction". If you don't have the patience to deal with a potential problem, or don't want to have a gunsmith tweak your auto, buy a revolver.

Note to Larry Starling: have you found a good source for springs for the Defender other than from Colt? I find them for the Officers in Brownells but havent' seen any for the Defender. Don't know how many times my used one has been shot so i'd like to have a spare on hand.

 

[dodge]

You can try Wolff Springs as they may have what you need. I owned a Charles Daly compact sometime ago and it was very reliabile but I sold it in one of those weak moments that alot of us get from time to time. The only prob;em I had with it was that it shot low at 15 yards which wass a easy fix but it feed and ejected everything I put through it. I used mainly round ball but also ran Hydro shocks and Gold dots through it with no problems.

 

[wally]

I fancy guns that are "small" for their caliber. I have a Colt Officers ACP, Kimber Ultra Carry and Charles Daly CS, all feed my lead SWC reloads wihtout problems along with a variety of JHP (Hydrashok, Golden Saber, PMC Starfire).

The Daly CS is the newest and its been 100% out of the box for over 600 rounds of Wolf, reloads, and the above mentioned JHP. The Kimber is in my carry rotation with a set of CTC Lasergrips. I replaced the extractor and outer recoil spring on it at about 800 rounds when I started getting a few extraction and return to battery failures. No problems since.

They are much more sensitive to spring rates and need cleaning much more frequently than do the larger guns. Other than my carry guns, I just wipe them down and put them back in the safe after shooting until I get crud induced failures -- I can generally fire 3-4X as may rounds without cleaing thru full size than with the sub-compacts.

The stouter recoil also makes them much more prone to "limp wristing" failures -- a vailid concern in a carry gun where you might have to shoot one handed from a less than optimum position.

Basically I'd not give a blanket recomendation for or against them, but if it means having a gun instead of the 5" in the safe, weighing the various risk factors is your decision. They work for me, although my carry is probably 50% S&W SC360 "Scandium" .357 (also with CTC Lasergrips), 40% Kahr PM40 (night sights), 5% Kimber Ultra Carry, and 5% Kel-Tec P3AT.


I also have a good assortment of double stack 45ACP guns, these are the ones I'd have concerns about carrying -- the mags are very sensitive to spring strength and dirt/crud at the single to double stack transition region which leads to "bolt over base" (aka ride over feed) failures. With the strongest mag springs I can get and keeping the mags clean they are great fun at the range, but would be amoung my last choices for carry. I have confidence it the guns, but not the mags, maybe now that the AWB is expired, the mag situation will improve -- three new 13-round Mec-Gars functioned 100% out of the box in my Para P14 so I have hope.

--wally.

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

My wife has a Kimber Ultra CDP II 3" barrel. It has FTE out of the box but since we got it back from the factory she had had not problems other than it has a feed issue with lead SWC. No problems with RN, FP, HP non-lead SWC. For $1000 we were very disappointed in the FTE, 2 failures per mag should have been caught at the factory.

 

[Old Fuff]

There is a lot more to making a reliable 1911 style sub-compact pistol then simply cutting off two inches from a Government Model's front end.

Can it be done? Sure, but it's not easy and a lot of factors come into play. Then things can become even more complicated when some makers' shorten the butt but still want to have the the cartridge capacity of a standard magazine.

The Colt Commander length guns (4 to 4 1/4" barrels) have a pretty good reputation. Anything shorter is a mixed bag.

I continue to maintain that the most RELIABLE small .45 is called a "snub-nosed revolver."

 

[Old Dog]

Wow, this question keeps coming up on both this and the 1911 forums ... does no one ever use the search function? (I'm sure by now there's still a hundred threads around on this topic...)
Last year, I dropped almost 900 smackers on a Springfield Armory (loaded) bi-tone Micro-Compact (a 3-incher). It's flawless, in my regard. Not only is the fit and finish excellent, the pistol is stone reliable and accurate as hell. A good buddy has likewise had great success with his Kimber Ultra CDP -- another 3-incher. Of course, everyone's experiences with the compacts are different. All I'd ask is, just don't bash the compacts if you don't have experience with 'em ...

 

[bratch]

I have a Kimber Compact and it is great. Wouldn't trade it for anything and am looking for more.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The fundamental problem with short-barreled M1911s is that it is a tilt-barrel design. Since the locking lug engagement is pretty much fixed, shortening the barrel increases the angle of tilt necessary to unlock. For that reason (as has been said before) just shortening the slide and barrel won't work -- particularly if you shorten it quite a bit.

Many of the compacts on the market have been thoroughly wrung out by now, and any design flaws corrected. Others haven't -- it seems like designing a shorty tilt-barrel is black magic. Each company has to learn for itself.

Personally, I don't find a full-size M1911 to be inconvenient to carry, so I stick with what's proven.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Kinda 1911

If you want a small 1911 you might consider:

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/ls/ls.html

It's what I carry in .40 Short & Weak.

It looks like a 1911 but has a linkless barrel and external extractor. It feeds self defense ammo and goes bang every time you squeeze the trigger, what more could you ask for?

Check one out, you may like it. You'd also save quite a bit of that $1200, you are fixin' to spend.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I have had bad luck with two 4" 1911s (kimber and springfield), and two 3" 1911s (colt officer and springfield ultracarry.

Does that give me enough experience with them to be allowed to bitch?

I will NEVER buy another 1911 with less than a 5" barrel. Believe what people are saying. Too many people out there are complaining about short barrelled 1911s being unreliable for this not to be a real problem.

The only people who don't complain are those that got lucky and got one that actually works. These people say the rest of us are just spreading internet rumors though.

 

[ken grant]

Small 1911

I have an Officer's ACP that I bought used(re-worked by Wilson's),took it to the range and it was a jam-o-matic with hardball. I got 2 Colt 6 rd. mags with it,1-7rd. Colt and 1-7rd. Springfield. It jamed with all of them.
Came home and changed mag. springs(11# in 6 rd. and +5% in 7 rd) . I left the Devel type followers in the 7 rd. mags. just to try them.
I have now made 3 more trips to the range and fired about 300 rds. with no failures except I broke the ejector on the last trip. I blame this on the fact that I was using the recoil spring that came with the gun and the ejector was receiving a big hit with a weak spring.
Wilson's said to replace recoil springs every 300 rds. and I now have replaced the recoil spring and ejector and fired about 75 rds. with no problems.
Another way I see of helping small 1911 clones is to install a firing pin stop with a small radius. It will help to slow the slide down and maybe even let you use a lighter recoil spring.
1911 Tuner & OLD FUFF are good teachers and I just use their advice on all my 1911's and clones

 

[ManChicken]

Ymmv

I just picked up a Kimber Eclipse Pro II yesterday (my first 1911! ) which is 4". Only put 100 rounds of FMJ through it so far (and it was slightly used prior to me) and didn't have a single malfunction. Will try some JHP as soon as I can get my hands on some.

 

[bearmgc]

My Colt Defender has been a proven shooter, and with everything I've fed it so far- about 600 rounds as of last week.

 

[Jedi_7.62]

I may have made a small mistake in my original post. The gun I have my eye on is NOT the compact model. It is actually a Pro model. I believe it is still a full frame but with a 4" barrel. Could I expect the same reliability as a regular 1911?

I do not like those odd designs where the barrel is no longer than the magasine. Look funny feel funny.

I am new to 1911's This is something I'm wanting to get down the road. Don't have the cash to lay down right now.

 

[Zach S]

I hear that 1911s shorter than a commander aren't as reliable as commanders or government models. But the two short pistols I own run great, just like my government models.

My 4" Kimber has only given me problems with the remanufatcured Atlanta Arms Ammo that's stocked at the range (why he carries that crap in a box is beyond me), but a lot of my pistols dont get along with it, including my previous and current G17.

I've heard people say that a FLGR is required for the shorter pistols, but its been swapped out of both of my short 1911s with no problems. My 3.5" Para functioned great with no guide rod at all, and now that its got a short one, I dont have to tighten the two peice every 50 rounds. It'll even eat that Atlanta Arms crap with no problems.