Compact 45 ACP, is it pointless?

[jimbo555]

If my colt new agent has been 100% perfect for 1500 rounds and your 4 or 5 inch 1911 has been perfect,are they not comparable?

 

[earplug]

Awkward for me

The balance of my compact 1911 (Detonics) never felt right in my hand or on my belt. The short slide did not provide enough security to (keep me happy) to hold the pistol in its holster or my hand. This was before Kydex holsters were made.
The short butt was still pretty heavy when the magazine was full.
It might have been a better pistol with a alloy frame or longer slide and short butt.
I liked a alloy Commander size pistol better for inside the belt carry.
A cut down mainspring housing corner would help with concealment.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

are they not comparable?

Yes (if you're talking to me, or even if you aren't. Yes, either way) they are comparable. But all else being equal, I believe (that's ME) that the shorter you modify the slide on John Browning's 1911 design the more potential for a slide-related FTE/FTF you create. And 4" is as short as I'll comfortable pushing the odds of that potential.

 

[trex1310]

That being said, I don't like carrying a gun that holds less than 10 rounds of ammo. Hard to do in a compact 45ACP.

But not impossible. Check out the Springfield XD Compact.
I believe it holds 13+1 with mag extension.

If you're worried about 1911 reliability just trade it in for a Glock.

 

[Hootus]

Ghost Tracker you do have a point on the short slides. It took some minor work to get my Kimber Ultra CDP running, but it runs great now. It did take a feed ramp polish, Wolf springs, and Wilson mags, but it has not hiccuped once since then (about 1,500 rounds fired afterwards). A shame to spend that much on a firearm and still have to tweak it, but it is now a fantastic carry piece.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Thanks Hootus, two questions; How much shorter is the Kimber Ultra CDP than a 4", an inch? With all that worry, work & expense to make you comfortable enough to carry it, is a single inch of (less) barrel length worth the effort to you? Appreciate your input.

 

[jimbo555]

Ghost Tracker,the new agent is 6 inches long by 4 inches high,compared to almost 8 inches long and over 5 inches high for a colt commander.Thats significant.Not to mention the weight if we are talking an all steel commander.I love the commander but the defender/new agent is much easier and comfortable for me to carryand yet still have 8 rounds of 45acp available.The new agent can fit in a lot of pockets,not posible with a commander model.

 

[ORHunter79]

Ok. Thanks for all the input. I've Carried the Glock 30 and the Taurus PT145. Sold both, but miss my .45's.

The ballistics by the inch site shed some light for sure.

I'll might go back to a PT145 MilPro, that thing was unstoppable.

Anyone experience the Springfield XD(M) .45?

 

[oneounceload]

I looked up some statistics, and NYPD lists an average of 16.8 shots per shootout with 6.9 shots fired per individual officer.

That's because NYPD cops have so little training and they are not the world's greatest sharp-shooters, especially today.......

 

[Ghost Tracker]

The new agent can fit in a lot of pockets,not posible with a commander model.

Understand entirely & not pickin' a fight. Those differences ARE significant. I don't pocket carry so I don't think about it much. New Agent is 7+1 or 8+1? I generally think the compact .45 acp has a LOT of merit. I just wonder (JMB forgive me!) if the 1911 is the best design to keep making more (and MORE) compact? What about the Kahr P45, etc.? Or is just the thought...pure blasphemy?

 

[jimbo555]

You are correct Ghost Tracker,I also carry owb and a lightweight commander would be just as easy to carry except for the grip length. I guess it's just lazyness that I strap on the new agent.But it is comfy to carry! It is 7+1.

 

[230therapy]

A "compact" 45 ACP would be the 45 GAP cartridge.

Oh, did you mean a compact 1911 pistol chambered in 45 ACP?

 

[Ghost Tracker]

I think the OP was open to ANY compact .45 acp (and corresponding velocity loss) if I understand correctly. I just may have helped make it a conversation about micro 1911 variants. Whoops! I detest thread piracy!

 

[Hootus]

Thanks Hootus, two questions; How much shorter is the Kimber Ultra CDP than a 4", an inch? With all that worry, work & expense to make you comfortable enough to carry it, is a single inch of (less) barrel length worth the effort to you? Appreciate your input.

Yep it's shorter by one inch - 3". Actually it seemed like a lot of worry, work & expense at the time but it wasn't really. The big expense was the Wilson magazines which I am now not sure was needed once I did the other two modifications - my stock Kimber mags have not jammed afterwards but the Wilsons are obviously much better products.

The only really cheesy issue was how rough the feed ramp on the Kimber barrel was - I own a Ruger LCP that retails for 1/4 the price of the Kimber and it had a more polished feed ramp on the barrel than the Kimber had. That's not a good advertisement for Kimber quality, is it? However I always polish feed ramps anyway "just because" so that part was not an issue for me. A 7/16" wooden dowel rod wrapped in emory cloth and several minutes of sanding while watching TV cost me less than $5 to fix that.

The Wolf springs cost something like $20. So all told, I had to spend another $25 (and a half hour polishing the feed ramp) to get the Kimber running, not counting the Wilson mags that I would have bought anyway. I can live with that today: although at the time it was frustrating to take my new thousand dollar pistol to the range to find out it wouldn't feed JHPs (it now feeds anything I put into it - four different brands of JHP and several different handloads of LSWC and jacketed designs).

For me the 3" is worth it. I carry with either a Crossbreed Supertuck or a generic IWB holster.

For strongside carry I would be better off with a Commander length barrel - easier aiming (longer sight radius for these old eyes) and the longer barrel length doesn't hamper concealability (it's the handle/grip that prints on this pistol). However, the 3" design allows appendix/front carry that is oftentimes more convenient for me. That would not be possible with a longer barrel length. I can access the firearm MUCH quicker with it near my front pocket than if it was on my side/hip, and I figure that if I do ever get in a situation where it is needed then speed is king. The shorter barrel gives me the option of appendix/front carry in addition to the normal strongside carry; something that I do not have with the longer barrel.

Concealability-wise, it is the same thickness and length as my Glock 26 9mm, but the grip is slightly longer. Carried on the side, the grip prints sometimes when I bend over, but carried a little bit farther forward at 10 o'clock (I am a lefty) it does not at all. And with the short barrel I can carry it that way and still sit down (driving, eating, working at desk, etc). I couldn't carry at 10 o'clock with a longer barreled 1911. This one lets me carry a 45 instead of a 9 and be just as concealed and just as comfortable. The Crossbreed Supertuck is so comfortable I sometimes forget I am wearing the thing. The combination of this pistol and this holster allows me to carry without having to compromise (power vs size vs caliber etc).

Hope that helps explain some of the logic behind my personal preference.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

I've heard good reviews on the Supertuck Deluxe. Thanks for the 3" Kimber explanation.

 

[ghitch75]

i have carried a Defender daily for over 4 years now and have ran over 3k threw it.....have changed the springs 1 time(i don't think they needed changed just did it for peace of mind)...it will eat anything and has never failed to perform....buddy of mine has a PT145 MilPro that you would be better off throwin' the thing at the BG than shootin' it......i had a CW-45 that ran great but printed all over the court.....as far as the Defender goes i guess i got a good one by luck it seems....

 

[PabloJ]

So, looking at getting a 45 ACP in compact form. A few people have said it's pointless to get a 45 ACP with a short barrel cause you loose to much velocity, and it's already a relatively slow round.

So what's too short for the 45, 3.25" barrel, 4"???

What are your thoughts?

YES if you choose 1911 style weapon otherwise absolutely NOT.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Yes...You lose some velocity with a shorter barrel, but is 850 ft per second fast enough to stop a perp?

From a Kimber UCC II with 3" barrel of which the bullet will see only 2".

 

[230therapy]

I think the OP was open to ANY compact .45 acp (and corresponding velocity loss)

Again, there is no such thing as a "45 ACP" when referring to handguns. It is a cartridge. So, the OP's question is about cartridges, not handguns. Therefore, a compact 45 ACP is 45 GAP.

 

[Rail Driver]

As far as holsters go, I've got a Deadeyeluke.com IWB holster, a Don Hume #10 IWB, and a Galco horsehide NSA-2 IWB... My Colt Commander lives in the Galco, but the deadeyeluke holster is my EDC holster.

I heartily recommend everyone try Deadeyeluke holsters. They're ~$25, can be made to fit ANY gun, they're water and sweat proof (Kydex), easy to clean, good stuff. They also don't have as much potential to scratch the finish as the Bladetech holsters I used to have did.

Again, there is no such thing as a "45 ACP" when referring to handguns. It is a cartridge. So, the OP's question is about cartridges, not handguns. Therefore, a compact 45 ACP is 45 GAP.

The OP was obviously asking about firearms and not cartridges... His answers to replies have all been in that context. Semantics aren't important to this question, and you're not helping the OP, you're just mucking up his thread with irrelevant posts. If you have something applicable to the question to add, we'd love to hear it.

 

[Seven For Sure]

Short barrels are what 230+P is for! Someone mentioned the PT145 and despite Taurus' rep on the internet, mine is flawless. A reliable, accurate, 10+1 45ACP is not pointless.

 

[2wheels]

.38 Special out of a 2 inch barrel ain't exactly a screamer either, and plenty of people carry those don't they?

You live with a little velocity loss if you carry a subcompact gun, I think .45ACP will still get the job done with only 3 or so inches of barrel.

 

[jimbo555]

Good point 2 Wheels! I'll think of my new agent as a snub nose 45!

 

[SIGLBER]

Their are a few .45 rounds such as the Winchester 230gr.+P Ranger, several of the brass bullets, and Short Barreled Gold dots that expand fine even down to a 3" barrel. So with careful ammo selection a 3.25" or 4" barrel will work well. But yes the .45 does lose more velocity then tha .40 and especially the 9mm. I know it's been beaten to death but with proper ammo selection the dofferences in ammo performance between the various srvice calibers is small.
Although I have an Officers Sized (3.25 inch barrel) 1911 and it works fine I would much rather carry one of my compact or sub compact with 13 or so rounds of high performance +P or +P+ ammo. Plus mines not but when yo u go under 4" in a 1911 they can get very fincky about loads. Springs have to be changed more regularly. And the little ones bark. Just food for thought.

 

[NG VI]

: I think most people would rather be shot with a 9mm out of a 4" barrel than a 45 out of a 3" barrel.

I'd rather be shot with .45 ball out of anything than any 9mm JHP out of anything with a barrel longer than one inch.