Compact [CCW] 9mm that can handle +P+

[hentown]

I'm not l.e. or military and I easily buy +p+ ammo from a reputable dealer, online. However, unlike the OP, who, for some reason, doesn't want a Glock, I do want a Glock and carry a G26 daily, loaded with 127gr. Win Ranger T +p+ ammo. I figure I could probably only fire 500,000 or so rounds of +p+ through my G26, before I'd have to replace something, but I doubt that I'll fire that many rounds through the Glock, anyhow. FWIW, I tailor my Glocks' recoil spring weights to the loads/calibers that I'm shooting.

The assertion that higher-velocity rounds aren't as effective from shorter barrels as are "standard" velocity rounds is nonsensical.

 

[psyopspec]

Steve, thanks for taking the time to explain, that makes more sense.

 

[PabloJ]

Trade it towards .40 S&W and the "problem" will go away.

 

[1911Tuner]

They'll all handle it. They're proofed at higher pressures than +P+.

The question is: How many rounds/how long will they handle it.

 

[Girodin]

I am with those that do not believe the negligible gain in FPS from a very short barrel outweighs the the added flash, blast and recoil. I do not believe one is going to really get any notable improvement in terminal ballistics.

 

[AK103K]

I never really noticed any real increase in flash or recoil with +P+. It is comparable to 357SIG in feel when shot in the same gun. Having shot all of them, I do know that perceived recoil is less with +P+ than .40 S&W in the same model gun, and for me, faster back on target.

As far as ballistics go, Winchester 127 grain +P+ does mimic 357SIG in measured velocity.

 

[Prosser]

Generalities about ammunition are pretty much worthless.
You can have slow burning or very fast burning powders that reach +P+ pressure levels, or medium burning powders.

The speed of the powder is going to determine how much of a velocity gain
you get in what barrel length you decide to use.

Valuable comments would be actual tests of the difference of different ammunition types in different barrel lengths.

Something like this, but using +P+ ammo, scroll to the bottom for the actual gun results.

http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

Great thing about such tests is you can get a pretty good idea about what exactly works in your weapon barrel length.

If I was considering such a thing, I'd certainly be looking at the ballistics of larger calibers.

There does appear to be a about a 200 fps jump going to .357 Sig.

Still, the plus p corbon load 125 grain goes nearly 1198 fps out of a short barrel in 9MM Plus P.

The rational reason for wanting +p+ ammo would be to emulate the .357 magnum with a 125 grain bullet.

To get that you'll probably need a 4" barrel on your gun.

That makes your search a bit narrower.

The .357 Magnum with a 2" barrel gives you about 1200 fps with a 125 grain
bullet, using Corbon Ammunition.

Their 9mm pretty much equals that out of a 3" barrel, in an auto.

Without specific tests, my conjecture would be you aren't going to get a great increase in velocity with +p+ ammo out of a 3" barrel or less.

The surplus stuff was designed for submachine guns, with longer barrels, so they probably used a slower powder that would work less effectively in
a shorter barrel.

Buffalbore makes +P+ ammo. It goes the following from these guns, with longer barrels:
9mm Luger +P+ PENETRATOR Ammo - 124 gr. FMJ-FN (1,300 fps/M.E. 465 ft. lbs.
1317 fps Browning MK 111 Hi Power

1298 fps Glock Mod. 19





Item 24A/20 (+p+) 115gr. Jacketed Hollow Point
9mm Luger +P+ Pistol and Handgun Ammo - (+P+) 115 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,400 fps/M.E. 500 ft.lbs.)
Browning Hi Power MK111, 4.6 inch barrel---------1426 fps
Beretta 92F, 4.9 inch barrel-----------------------------1402 fps
Glock 19, 4.0 inch barrel--------------------------------1389 fps

I think it's pretty telling that NONE of the tests are done with a barrel shorter then 4 inches, and that's the Glock 19.

I'd look at Buffalo Bores +P+ and consider the guns he's using if you are going to use such ammo. I would also get the stiffest springs I can for said gun from Wolffe and have them installed.

So if you want a .357 in your 9mm, it appears you need at least a 4" barrel, and all 4" barrels are not created equal. The Glocks seem slow, Walther's much faster with the barnes bullets at least.

 

[Girodin]

I never really noticed any real increase in flash or recoil with +P+. It is comparable to 357SIG in feel when shot in the same gun.

Are you talking about service size guns or sub compacts? I have a snub nose 9mm revolver that definitely has more flash than any of my guns with 4"+ barrels.

 

[AK103K]

Both. I shoot +P+ out f my 17 and 26 and see little difference.

Revolvers are a little different than the autos. The autos have a longer barrel in a similar sized gun. You get better powder burn in them. The revolvers barrels are shorter and you have the cylinder gap, which tends to produce a lot more flash. The smaller revolvers grips combined with heavy recoiling loads are also not as shootable, especially when shot with grips that are more suitable to carry. I can shoot my 26 all day with hot loads, my 642's are basically a 50 round box of punishment. Now with my 4" revolvers shooting the same ammo, its not anywhere near as brutal.

What 9mm revolver are you shooting? I had a couple of S&W 940's when they first came out, and both failed within 200 rounds and had to be replaced. S&W would never go into what the problem was, and I always wondered if the 9mm wasnt a little to hot for the J frames.

 

[Girodin]

What 9mm revolver are you shooting?

The 940, I have never had an issue with mine. I actually think it is a nearly ideal defensive snub nose. I wish it had a trigger like an LCR and then I would say it was ideal. My 940 has a trigger job but I still prefer the LCR trigger.

If a J frame can live up to the the 35000 CUP chamber pressure of 357 mag I don't know why the 35000 CUP pressure of the 9mm would be an issue.

Both. I shoot +P+ out f my 17 and 26 and see little difference.

I also have a G26 as well and I would respectfully submit it is a bit of a different beast than the very small guns like the PM9 or PF9. The barrel length is only about half an inch difference ( a bit less I believe but I'd have to look it up to get the exact figure). However, as you noted grip size and shape is important in terms of felt recoil, control and follow ups. The G26 is a pretty larger gun compared to a PM9.

There is a huge difference in the blast, recoil, etc between my 940 and my G26.

I still don't see there being a truly notable terminal ballistics advantage, that said I would be much more inclined to run +p+ through a G26 than I would a PM9 or a PF9 (I believe any kind of significant round count would cause the latter problems in fairly short order anyways).

 

[AK103K]

If a J frame can live up to the the 35000 CUP chamber pressure of 357 mag I don't know why the 35000 CUP pressure of the 9mm would be an issue.

You wouldnt think. I kind of doubt the higher pressures of the hotter 9mm's would really make any real difference.

I dont know what the deal was with my two, but neither made it past the 200 round mark when new. Both broke parts internally, and had to be disassembled to get the live ammo out to send them back. The second gun they sent me had the same serial number as the first, but the lettering was different on the second, and it was obvious it wasnt the same gun. When it took a dump, I sent it back and told them I didnt want it back in 9mm, so they sent me a 642.

Since they werent around much longer past that, I just assumed they were trouble and were discontinued due to it. I did like the idea, and especially the moon clips.

 

[Buckeyeguy525]

As others have said, in a short barrel +P+ isnt going to give you the kind of performance you are looking for. And depending on the gun, you may not be able to cycle the heavier loads like 147gr. For example, I had a Pf9 that would not reliably cycle 147gr defense rounds. The thing that is far more important to me than the pressure of the round is how well it has performed in expansion/penetration tests. The Hornady Critical Defense is only 115gr and standard pressure, but has performed very well.