Makes sense to me, traded off my .300 when I decided I couldn't tell the difference between it and my stw when I was behind it, and with the stw I gained a good bit of advantage so it's justifiable, I realistically expect to get slapped a bit here and there no matter what I'm holding, but I want something for my troubles lol! And a .257 wby with a fast twist pushing blackjacks could definitely be justifiable!
Compare 25-06 & .270 & .243?
- Thread starter Sniper66
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WestKentucky
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Consider where the case came from and the parent cases original design. 25-06 and .270 come from 30-06 (technically 30-03 but I’m not chasing that rabbit) and with each step down you trade mass for velocity. Similarly .243 is 2 or 3 steps down from .308. The trade off sometimes is good, sometimes it’s not favorable. For deer it seems like 1 step down from the original may be optimal in modern guns, possibly 2 steps down. .270 or 7-08 seem to be pretty well optimal from my viewpoint hunting big bodied Kentucky cornfield deer. Moving from .277 130gr to .257 110gr isn’t gonna be much difference, but it’s going to be faster and flatter. End effect on animal should be pretty similar and would be perfectly fine unless chasing something bigger than whitetail.
In a short action, based on 308 you see the same thing. 7-08 and 6.5creedmore are similar in size and capacity (not same parent case though) and are realistically right there in the same sweet spot. .243 gets a bit light on mass for the velocity and case size, but it is also perfectly adequate for deer and similar critters.
So pick what you prefer... light and fast, heavier and slower, or a trade off somewhere in the middle. I bought .270 as a kid and have never regretted it. My next rifle will be a 7-08 for the same reason, it’s optimal for the case it’s based on.
In a short action, based on 308 you see the same thing. 7-08 and 6.5creedmore are similar in size and capacity (not same parent case though) and are realistically right there in the same sweet spot. .243 gets a bit light on mass for the velocity and case size, but it is also perfectly adequate for deer and similar critters.
So pick what you prefer... light and fast, heavier and slower, or a trade off somewhere in the middle. I bought .270 as a kid and have never regretted it. My next rifle will be a 7-08 for the same reason, it’s optimal for the case it’s based on.
WisBorn
Contributing Member
I thought the OP and thread was comparing the 243 Winchester, 270 Winchester, and 25-06 Remington. Cartridges that at one time were wildcats, but then introduced by big firearm manufacturers. So lets talk about them.
Those that love the 270 do for many reasons, but Jack was the biggest advocate for it. So dad's bought them and then their son's, so came it's popularity. After seeing the results from the 270 on game its popularity grew. The 25-06 enhanced the advantages of the 270 over 30-06, the 25-06 shoots flatter than the 270 with a little less recoil. On medium size game there is virtually no difference between them, on larger game the 270 has an advantage. The 243 was introduced as a dual purpose round and was bought by fathers to outfit there sons and daughters with a low recoil deer capable cartridge. Dad's liked the gun for coyotes in the off-season so the popularity grew. On deer the 25-06 has an advantage over the 243 with its heavier bullet, the 243 has an advantage with less recoil.
In comparing the 3 cartridges the 25-06 is the best compromise of the three. I enjoyed the 25-06 as a dual purpose round. I hunt deer more than coyotes so the 25-06 gets my vote.
Those that love the 270 do for many reasons, but Jack was the biggest advocate for it. So dad's bought them and then their son's, so came it's popularity. After seeing the results from the 270 on game its popularity grew. The 25-06 enhanced the advantages of the 270 over 30-06, the 25-06 shoots flatter than the 270 with a little less recoil. On medium size game there is virtually no difference between them, on larger game the 270 has an advantage. The 243 was introduced as a dual purpose round and was bought by fathers to outfit there sons and daughters with a low recoil deer capable cartridge. Dad's liked the gun for coyotes in the off-season so the popularity grew. On deer the 25-06 has an advantage over the 243 with its heavier bullet, the 243 has an advantage with less recoil.
In comparing the 3 cartridges the 25-06 is the best compromise of the three. I enjoyed the 25-06 as a dual purpose round. I hunt deer more than coyotes so the 25-06 gets my vote.
cdb1
Member
Are you still stating that with “the right stock” I’d feel less recoil from a 25-06, or are you stating everyone feels recoil differently which I wholeheartedly agree with?
With the historical loads of the time each cartridge was being introduced, that is spot on!
Modern technology has somewhat leveled the field so just for curiosity based on numbers only, between a 115 gr bullet with a SD of .294 pushed by 48 gr of powder from a 24" barrel to 2950 fps, and a 117 gr bullet sd .253 using 61 gr of powder to hit 3200 fps. The sd .294 bullet comes with better b.c. to buck the wind and retain downrange energy. Which load is less lethal or are you less likely to pick? (Sheer curiosity)
sage5907
Member
As always - YMMV.In full disclosure - I'm actually spending more time these days with 358 Winchester than anything else, but that's just because I'm an idiot..
I don't believe it! Us older guys seem to gravitate to big bullets. I have 25-06's, 270 Winchester's and 30-06's and my latest rifle of choice is a 338-06. An idot is someone who doesn't have a clue and that's not us because everyone is entitled to make a change from time to time. I used to drive 70 and shoot a 25-06 and now I drive 60 and shoot a 338-06. My bullets are slower but they hit harder.
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cdb1
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I must be the exception as I keep going smaller. My first two years deer hunting a 30-06 and .303 were used which IMO is a bit much when you’re 11 and 12, even if you’re a big kid. Then from 1972 to 2010 I used a .270 for deer. Since 2010 it’s been a 6.5x55.
sage5907
Member
When I was happy using the smaller diameter bullets I noticed the recoil more. Now that I'm older and probably punch drunk I don't feel the recoil as much.
mustanger98
Member
What I am stating is that, because we're all different, we've just illustrated the subjective nature of cartridges, stocks, and perceived recoil.
I used to think it was mostly about the cartridge. While different stocks have sometimes helped me, it won't always be the case. You say with .25-06 it's the cartridge that's the problem... maybe the recoil impulse is different enough to you. I got to thinking back about my old .25-06... it mostly always had a Limbsaver. When I swapped stocks, it wound up with a ladies/youth type (shorter LOP) off a 110D... it came with a recoil reducer, and then I added a slip-on Limbsaver to add the LOP back on when I'm not wearing a heavier jacket. So, on that one rifle, I wound up doubling up on the recoil reduction. For all I know, there could be some set-ups where I wouldn't like .25-06 either, but I'm not going to start sampling everybody else's guns and handloads to find out. I know if I ever fool with a .270 again, it won't be without my own handloads and a Limbsaver.
I'd bet neither of us has tried anywhere near every stock ever offered. It'd be expensive and time-consuming. Easier to pick cartridges we each like and go out and enjoy.
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mustanger98
Member
.243Win works for me. 100gr PowerPoint, CoreLokt, Interlock... IME, one shot, one kill on some good size Virginia Whitetails... not much recoil and plenty of downrange power. No dislike for .30-06 and 303 in heavier rifles... IMO, they're another great option when something needs killing, but I wouldn't want to shoot them all day.
WisBorn
Contributing Member
I was thinking in general. I understand that modern technology is constantly improving what we shoot. I do look at what is happening with factory loaded ammo as it improves. The loads with Hornady's ELD-X bullets still give an energy advantage to the 25-06 over the 243 in their deer hunting loads. Technology makes all loads better and more efficient loads an additional bump.
Varminterror
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Must be a lot of folks from Alabama hanging around... why else would so many folks think the 270’s brother is its dad?
mustanger98
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From what I've read, the .25-06Rem. was first known of in 1912 as a wildcat (introduced as a standard chambering in 1969). The .270Win. debuted in 1925 in Winchester's Model 54. Both were direct spin-offs from .30-06, the cases being identical except for the mouth.
Varminterror
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That ain’t it.
The 270 is parented by the same parent as the .30-06, the 30-03. The 270 case is longer than the 30-06, and necking 30-06 brass down will not yield sufficient length 270win brass. The .30-06 and .270win are siblings.
25-06 WAS parented by the 30-06. The 270win was not.
mustanger98
Member
Now I wonder why the accounts I've read left .30-03 out of pretty much anything that happened after 1906.
can we just call them kissing cousins?
Id never considered that....but yeah the .270s closer to the .30-03 than the .30-06 when considering length.
So is the .280 for that mater.
Still its a lot easier to forget the 30-03 existed when trying to explain the familial connection, and just say the 06 was the parent for every long .473 cartridge.
Id never considered that....but yeah the .270s closer to the .30-03 than the .30-06 when considering length.
So is the .280 for that mater.
Still its a lot easier to forget the 30-03 existed when trying to explain the familial connection, and just say the 06 was the parent for every long .473 cartridge.
WisBorn
Contributing Member
Thanks LoonWolf,
In the past I have called the 30-06 the parent case or Dad myself. I often think of the 30-06 family of cartridges. Though the 30-03 was the start of the 30-06, 270, & 280. I don't know of any re-loaders going out and buying 30-03 to neck them down to 270
With all the great cartridges on the market, and cases available to wildcats, we live in the hay day for shooters. Add in the great bullets available and it is a great time to be a shooter and hunter!
Safe shooting, Stay safe,
Jeff
By the way I still like the 25-06 what the thread was about
There are entire books written on this subject. As Art would say, "Y'all are trying to pick fly poop out of pepper." Let's call this one done.
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