Compare 25-06 & .270 & .243?

[mustanger98]

243: 100gr at 3000 fps
270: 130gr at 3000 fps
25-06: 120gr at 3000 fps?

Not really seeing the need for a 25-06 to supplement the former 2 cartridges, but since when have we let need stop us before...

Who says those three rounds absolutely must run 3000fps? If they're handloaded, I'd say back off on the gas and go for accuracy. 2700fps should work just fine depending on finding a barrel's accuracy node.

But yeah, most of us have rifles that do the same thing our other rifles do. All any of 'em shoots is bullets.

 

[mustanger98]

Personally, if I can get the performance I want from a short action cartridge, I'll go that route every time. I like the .243. And for a bit more oomph, I like the .243 Ackley.

However, if you like long actions, no reason to not like a .25-06. Might be easy to achieve much the same thing, though, by loading lighter bullets in your .270.

Everything is a tradeoff... a lighter bullet like a 110-120gr in a .270 might not be as heavy-for-diameter as a 117-120gr in the .25-05... 'course then there's the question of what works best in each barrel and they can be funny.

 

[skeeterfogger]

If I was torn between 2506 and 243 I would go 270.

 

[Slamfire]

Who says those three rounds absolutely must run 3000fps? If they're handloaded, I'd say back off on the gas and go for accuracy. 2700fps should work just fine depending on finding a barrel's accuracy node.

But yeah, most of us have rifles that do the same thing our other rifles do. All any of 'em shoots is bullets.

I am currently developing more loads for my pre 64 M70



first couple of shots out of the barrel, grouped well, prone with a sling.



shot well out to 300 yards, but, a 130 clocking 2950 fps blows primers. Found the new brass I was using were all over 200 grains a case!



this was a great load at 300 yards, 150 grain Fed Fusion



except for the fact I blew primers on half the case heads. With 54.0 grains IMR 4831 the bullet was moving 2801 fps, I cut that load by a grain to 53, while it shot great, it blew primers.

Screw that. Who said 3000 fps was essential for hunting? Do bullets bounce off animals if they are less than 3000 fps?

The latest loads I am going with, with a 130 gr Fed Fusion, 53.5 grains IMR 4831 moving just at 2875 fps. I want my loads to be less than 2900 fps because I think that will give me margin from blowing primers. And my 150 Federal Fusion, 50 1/2 grs is just at 2708 fps. Great accuracy with both, and no blown primers.

I getting to believe that those published velocity values we read are wildly optimistic, and are so for advertising purposes. Due to customer demand that more means more, the velocity gets bumped up to keep the customer base happy. I remember reading in early Arms and the Man magazine about a 30-06 pushing a 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps. That was the in print standard. I can push a 150 grain 308 bullet that fast in a 300 H&H but not in a 30-06 case.

 

[rbernie]

I'm asking for comparison with .270 and .243 because I've shot them quite a bit, make hand loads for both, and have killed deer with both. So it's a good point of reference for me. If you really prefer the 25-06 to other rifles, what is it that you like? And finally which manufacturer do you like?

Many years ago, in the time before Creedmoors and Dashers and such things, I came to the realization that I had accumulated a bunch of 223s, a 243, a 25-06, a 6.5x55, a bunch of 270s, a slew of 7x57s, oodles of 308s, a few 30-30's, a handful of 30-06s, a bunch of .311-.312 chamberings, and so forth - and I was tired of having to stock so dang many different bullets for chamberings that weren't really all that differentiated from each other. When I really looked at how I used rifles and what I hunted (or just shot at paper), I decided to make things simple - I chose 22cal, 25cal, 30cal, 35cal, and 45cal (**). It may not have been the smartest approach, but my reasoning at the time was simple - each of these bullet offerings in these calibers generally covered a weight range with minimal overlap to its neighbors. With that settled, I sold all of the rifles NOT chambered in these calibers, and then set about choosing the chamberings within these calibers that made me happiest.

When it was all said and done, I found that I gravitated towards the 25cal rifles more than any other, especially for hunting thin-skinned game or when I wanted to spend time at the range sending a fair number of rounds downrange without regretting it the next day. Now, as a general rule - anything that the 257 Roberts can do, the 25-06 can do 200fps better and the 257 Weatherby Mag can do 500fps better. On the face of it, that pretty much means that I'm gonna carry a short action (257 Roberts) as my general go-to gun, and use the 257 Weatherby Magnum if I need more range - and the poor old 25-06 pretty much gets neglected until I get tired of reloading the Weatherby Mag or scrounging for Roberts brass.

BUT - the hidden truth in all of this is that if I could only have -one- rifle, and wanted to split the difference between the true varmint guns (22CF) and the big hog/elk-capable guns (30+cal), it would probably be the 25-06 as the best choice of the jack-of-all-trades options (within my caliber choices, above). It's easy to reload or to find quality ammo for, it can easily run 75g lightweight bullets when needed and 120gr tougher stuff when appropriate, and it has a comfortable trajectory that is well suited for traditional hunting needs. I am not the most experienced hunter, but I've never seen nor heard of a situation in which a well constructed 120gr bullet was inadequate but a similarly built .277 150gr bullet was somehow that much mo' better - my belief is that if I can't ethically hunt it with a 25cal, then I'm stepping up to a 30cal or better. And shooting a 110gr .277 (lightest you'll find in a lead-based bullet) vs a 75gr .257 will make a difference after 40 or 60 rounds.

As always - YMMV. In full disclosure - I'm actually spending more time these days with 358 Winchester than anything else, but that's just because I'm an idiot.



(**) I could just have easily gone 22cal, 6.5mm, 7.5mm (30cal), and so forth. I almost did. But at the time, 6.5 didn't have much filling in the gap between 75gr to, say 100gr, and the 25cals just filled that spot better. Do / did I really need that gap filled? I think so - as it turns out, most of my extended range work is done using a 257 Roberts shooting either a 75gr or a 100gr bullet.

 

[LoonWulf]

Screw that. Who said 3000 fps was essential for hunting? Do bullets bounce off animals if they are less than 3000 fps?

yes..............

 

[troy fairweather]

I like all 3, the rifle you want my pick what cartridge you go with. Tho most actions these days are long action with shorter rounds.

 

[LoonWulf]

I am currently developing more loads for my pre 64 M70

View attachment 911839

first couple of shots out of the barrel, grouped well, prone with a sling.

View attachment 911840

shot well out to 300 yards, but, a 130 clocking 2950 fps blows primers. Found the new brass I was using were all over 200 grains a case!

View attachment 911841

this was a great load at 300 yards, 150 grain Fed Fusion

View attachment 911842

except for the fact I blew primers on half the case heads. With 54.0 grains IMR 4831 the bullet was moving 2801 fps, I cut that load by a grain to 53, while it shot great, it blew primers.

Screw that. Who said 3000 fps was essential for hunting? Do bullets bounce off animals if they are less than 3000 fps?

The latest loads I am going with, with a 130 gr Fed Fusion, 53.5 grains IMR 4831 moving just at 2875 fps. I want my loads to be less than 2900 fps because I think that will give me margin from blowing primers. And my 150 Federal Fusion, 50 1/2 grs is just at 2708 fps. Great accuracy with both, and no blown primers.

I getting to believe that those published velocity values we read are wildly optimistic, and are so for advertising purposes. Due to customer demand that more means more, the velocity gets bumped up to keep the clown customer base happy. I remember reading in early Arms and the Man magazine about a 30-06 pushing a 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps. That was the in print standard. I can push a 150 grain 308 bullet that fast in a 300 H&H but not in a 30-06 case.

Ive had little issue reaching 3k with any of the midweight bullets in long actions. Usually 3100 is attainable....BUT those are the upper 5-10% loads. You may have to give up temp stability, or accuracy to do it, you may not. You almost always have to tinker with components and keep trying stuff to find the right combo.

Ive also seen some guns that just couldnt get ANYTHING into that top end range.

Case in point my .30-06ai using hornady brass, will easily do 2750-2850 with most powders, but it took me almost 2 months and trying every powder I had or could get to, get close to 3k with reasonable accuracy, and acceptable pressure signs.
Rl-23 and superformance will both deliver acceptable accuracy and 2950 with 178eld-x. Thats it out of maybe a a half dozen slow to superslows.
I cant use those loads in federal brass either.

Now if im being honest...I REALLY dont need 3k from anything.

 

[Anchorite]

A 25-06 is just a 270 that took a week off from working out.

 

[WisBorn]

A 25-06 is just a 270 that took a week off from working out.

And all the 270 ever wanted to do was to match what his 30-06 dad always could, but the 270 never could

 

[Tentwing]

A few years back I went into the hospital and was not supposed to make it out. Things were really bad for a while. I rounded up all my firearms and handed them over to my kids and grandkids along with fly rods,arrowheads, books, camping equipment etc.... Well the man upstairs had a different plan for me than my doctors, and a year later I was well enough to go back to work. Which in my mind meant I was well enough to back to the woods, so it was time to go gun shopping.
I decided to try a new to me caliber, and after a little research it was the 25-06. I bought the new at the time offering from Ruger … the Hawkeye. I got lucky as my rifle actually like two different factory loads, and I have not yet took up reloading. Hornady loaded with 117 Sierra Game Kings hit Bambi like a lightning bolt, and are just as devastating to feral hogs. Sighted in at 100 yards it has less than a 3 inch drop at 300. Due to my age and my less than stellar eyesight I would never take a shot at an animal beyond 300.
There really aren’t many long shot opportunities in my neck of the woods. The average Whitetail around here probably get taken at between 50 and 70 yards. My longest shot with my 26-06 was a nice Sow at 147 paces. She dropped where she was hit , and weighed 140 lbs minus the gut pile. I believe that shot placement is king, and have not had to track anything in the 8 years I have been hunting the 25-06. I realize that 8 years is a small sample size, so your mileage may vary.
Now in the interest of full disclosure I have went back and repurchased most of the calibers that I owned before getting sick, but other than my Marlin 39a going to the squirrel woods my quarter bore has become my primary deer woods rifle.

Enjoy whatever rifle you decide on, and never take your time in the woods for granted, …… Tentwing

 

[Hokkmike]

25.06 - LOUD, ammo not available everywhere.
270 - Lots of good rifle choices - ubiquitous caliber
.243 - Great caliber but minimal for deer. (I didn't say to wouldn't work - I just said minimal)

Multiply all of the calibers by 1,832 and then find the square root of half and you come up with 6.55x55. It has the flatness of the 25-.06, the power of the 270 and the versatility of the .243.

 

[mshootnit]

I wish Nosler would offer a 25 Cal 120 gr. Accubond.

 

[mshootnit]

Ive had little issue reaching 3k with any of the midweight bullets in long actions. Usually 3100 is attainable....BUT those are the upper 5-10% loads. You may have to give up temp stability, or accuracy to do it, you may not. You almost always have to tinker with components and keep trying stuff to find the right combo.

Ive also seen some guns that just couldnt get ANYTHING into that top end range.

Case in point my .30-06ai using hornady brass, will easily do 2750-2850 with most powders, but it took me almost 2 months and trying every powder I had or could get to, get close to 3k with reasonable accuracy, and acceptable pressure signs.
Rl-23 and superformance will both deliver acceptable accuracy and 2950 with 178eld-x. Thats it out of maybe a a half dozen slow to superslows.
I cant use those loads in federal brass either.

Now if im being honest...I REALLY dont need 3k from anything.

I am running 0.2 gr under listed max charge of IMR4350 and 130 Game kings out of my 22" 270 Win. What do you think that looks like velocity-wise?

 

[mshootnit]

A 25-06 is just a 270 that took a week off from working out.

A 338 is a 25-06 that took 34 years off from working out!

 

[LoonWulf]

I am running 0.2 gr under listed max charge of IMR4350 and 130 Game kings out of my 22" 270 Win. What do you think that looks like velocity-wise?

From my limited experience with the .270, id guess 3000-3050ish. I had to go to imr4831 to get over 3100 from my 24" .270.

That said I could be way off on my guess.

 

[js8588]

From my limited experience with the .270, id guess 3000-3050ish. I had to go to imr4831 to get over 3100 from my 24" .270.

That said I could be way off on my guess.

Yeah, to those critiquing the 25-06 for "needing" a 24 inch barrel (and IMO, it does), well, so does a 270 (and for that matter, a 30-06).

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I wish Nosler would offer a 25 Cal 120 gr. Accubond.

We *might* see a .257 120 grain-ish Speer Impact bullet in the not too distant future.

 

[redneck2]

and I was tired of having to stock so dang many different bullets for chamberings that weren't really all that differentiated from each other.

Yep. At one time I had dozens of different chamberings. I figured out that I had to stock dozens of different bullets, powders, cases. I was no different than the hoarders in American Pickers. Some day I’m gonna need that. Yeah, and some day hell will freeze over

A 150 grain bullet anywhere from 2,200 to 3,000 FPS still works, no matter the head stamp on the cases. I had stuff just for the sake of having stuff

I have my .22’s, a couple varmint rifles, and a 7 Mag. Before I add another hunting rifle, explain what my 7 mag won’t handle that I hunt. You could substitute any one of dozens of calibers for 7 mag.

 

[horsey300]

I am running 0.2 gr under listed max charge of IMR4350 and 130 Game kings out of my 22" 270 Win. What do you think that looks like velocity-wise?

From my limited experience with the .270, id guess 3000-3050ish. I had to go to imr4831 to get over 3100 from my 24" .270.

That said I could be way off on my guess.

I got a cool app for that! 2950 is gonna put you REALLY close!

 

[horsey300]

I'm thinking about another rifle and have heard good things about the 25-06. You guys out there have always a been great source of information. I'm asking for comparison with .270 and .243 because I've shot them quite a bit, make hand loads for both, and have killed deer with both. So it's a good point of reference for me. If you really prefer the 25-06 to other rifles, what is it that you like? And finally which manufacturer do you like? Thanks for your help. Tom

I can't hold it back any longer, the .243 wins because it's a 6mm, and metric is just better and makes more sense! It's using less powder to do the same jobs as the quarter bore so that's a bonus, and I like my barrel burners to have "age" nuts because 'Merica! We can debate the numbers on paper all day (and we will cuz it's fun and why not), but reality is, with modern bullets, if someone is choosing something other than the sleek 6, 6.5, or 7mm pills for most hunting purposes, it's sheer want and as much as the debates will rage on, pick what you want and good on ya for giving some lonely gun a loving home!

 

[Mr. Zorg]

As far as "age" goes the .25-06 existed as a wildcat for decades before the .308 Winchester came out as a parent case for the .243 Winchester, cuz 'Muricans recognized what great potential the .30-06 Springfield case had for use in 'Murican calibers - yeah calibers, not milly metres!

 

[Sniper66]

OP here....Hey Guys, When I started this thread I was in the process of finding a .243 for my sis-n-law and building loads for it. That's done now and happy to say mission accomplished on all fronts; she has a real shooter and is happy with it. I already have two .243s so didn't want another, but further experimenting with loads and bullets is in my immediate future, like with some of the current ELD bullets. I'm always curious about what else is out there. Sound familiar? So the 25-06 questions emerged. My gun-fevered brain is swirling around with guns, bullets, loads and out of this vortex the 6.5 Creedmore is emerging again. Maybe stronger than the 25-06. Never plan to shoot a 500 yd deer, but also said I would never buy a 6.5 Creedmore when I sold my brother's Ruger #1 for him and the reloading dies with it. (smack forehead). Oh what a tangled web!! Now I'm looking at the Bergara B-14 Wilderness Ridge 6.5 Creedmore. Stay with me guys; I need all the help I can muster.

 

[horsey300]

As far as "age" goes the .25-06 existed as a wildcat for decades before the .308 Winchester came out as a parent case for the .243 Winchester, cuz 'Muricas recognized what great potential the .30-06 Springfield case had for use in 'Murican calibers - yeah calibers, not milly metres!

"Age" nut was a reference to rifles not cartridges, i.e. Savage, remage, or the unicorn rugage.
As far as age itself goes, 06 just got luckier than krag, we're already moving back towards something closer to the .300 Savage, .250-3000 design to make use of short action cartridge design in a more appropriate manner, something more efficient always finds its way to the top. A .250 ai bites the 06 counterpart in the butt with noticeably less powder, it's cool how the manufacturer's are figuring these things out! Attempting to recreate ol .284 shortER action performance in something stamped prc, or the tc/Savage cartridges into creeds. Bonded, aframe, and monometals being pushed by better powders to allow 22 cf a credible reliable claim to larger game. Old is cool in its own way (still got a krag, Brit, and .30-30) but needed, they aren't.

 

[Picher]

I had several teenage hunters of both sexes in the family, so had more .243s (3) than I really needed for myself. Now, they either have their own rifles or quit hunting. The latest deer I shot was a 120 lb. buck with a .243, just because I liked carrying it and didn't really expect to see a buck that I couldn't let get away.

The .270 Win is my favorite deer cartridge and it's taken about 15 deer at ranges out to 400 yards or so. I wouldn't use anything less capable unless I needed to carry a bunch of stuff to the blind and wanted to take my lightest-weight medium/large game rifle.