Concealed Carry And Drawing Your Gun In Time Of Need?

[Blackhawk]

Right on, Majic!

Keeping your head on a "swivel neck" will probably do more to keep you from becoming a casual target than anything else. Be aware of everybody within attacking range by constantly sweeping the area with your eyes.

Pickpockets use the cover of other people to get close to you, and maintaining vigilance while in crowds is the toughest, but an armed attack is more unlikely in crowds.

If your posture and attitude is one of vigilance and confident competence, you'll probably never have the opportunity to use your CCW....

 

[gbelleh]

I like the idea of cackling like a witch. I've always thought acting like a jackass might be a good way to distract someone long enough to get your gun out...then again, it might just make them shoot you!

What about pointing over the BG's shoulder saying "What the hell is THAT?" When he looks away, draw your guns! I bet that one works better in the movies...

 

[BB93YJ]

Don't look like food. Predators want an easy meal.

 

[Sunray]

I'd suggest you go get some training and quit worrying about it until you do. Other than the ccw course.
"...Most attackers are not total idiots..." Yeah, they are. Otherwise they go get jobs and wouldn't be criminals.

 

[Majic]

"...Most attackers are not total idiots..."

If they were then there would never be any dead victims!!!!

 

[Sunray]

I'd suggest you go get some training and quit worrying about it until you do. Other than the ccw course.
"...Most attackers are not total idiots..." Yeah, they are. Otherwise they go get jobs and wouldn't be criminals.

 

[another okie]

I use two carry guns, a Taurus 85 in a Kramer pocket holster, and a Glock 26 in a Sidearmor IWB. The Taurus is very fast if you have your hand on it, but you can put your hand on the concealing garment if you're carrying IWB in a position to sweep it back and be pretty fast, too. For example, if you are wearing an unbuttoned, untucked shirt, you can put your hand up the front of it with your thumb hooking the front of the shirt. Now you're ready, but you don't look threatening. If you're wearing an untucked buttoned shirt you can put your thumb down below the hem of the shirt and hook the hem so you can lift quickly.

The difference between pocket and IWB is small. Practice with what you use is more important than over analyzing which is better.

 

[happyguy]

You are going to die. Get used to it. Just make sure you take the SOB with you so he can't hurt anyone else.

Regards,
Happyguy

 

[Baba Louie]

Yeah PawDaddy, a gun in the hand beats one in the holster every time, almost, if you have the need for lethal force against lethal force.

It doesn't always start out that way tho' I gather (Hey man, you gotta match?), so stay in condition yellow when out on the streets or parking lots or when at other church members places of residence. Keep one hand empty and ready at least, stop and scan, smile at everyone and have a plan to defend yourself and loved ones.

Noting distance of all who approach you and eyeball their look and intent.

Watch their hands and eyes. Avoid groups of ner-do-wells and eeeevil-doers.

I'm not so sure about carrying a loaded sock in public tho'... it could work for ya, others swear by it I gather. (Honest to God Officer, I didn't know the sock was loaded!)

Check your six now and then and enjoy life. No need to be too paranoid... You already follow the Boy Scout motto of "Being Prepared".

Your sig line says it all really. I like it.

Adios

 

[jercamp45]

Good thread!

Well, we have all pondered this one well!
Awareness is key! Predators like sheep not wolves! I work in Vegas on the north end of crack alley and have to face down some interesting characters weekly, if not daily. If they are know you are ready for them, they normally won't bother. This is not a 100 percent rule(nothing is!), for there are those that DO NOT CARE if they die or go back to jail!(They are scary!), and the crazies that are completely unpredicatable!!
A gun in the hand is better! I spent a few years in a large NE city, and had a trench coat with through pockets. Was my hand in my pocket or on the butt of a Chief's Special? The same gun works pretty nice in a pocket holster too(soon to be upgraded to Kahr PM9)...I carry it in my left front pocket, as a back up to my 1911(of one size or another) in the IWB on my left hip! On duty the 1911 is visible, the .38 is not! It is comforting to have the 'Jay'in the pocket of a robe about the house as well!
Your intuition/gut feeling is vital too! That 'feeling' kept me outta alotta caca over the years. Better to avoid conflict, or negate it than have to deal with the legal aftermath later.
People can move fast, when properly motivated! Anyone with anything that looks like a weapon gets the most detailed scrutiny. Anyone that 'feels' like a danger to me or anyone else, gets my attention. Go wide around corners, keep you back to the wall, 'check six' often and do not forget the high ground!!
Be observant, be prepared!
DVC,
jercamp45

 

[Island Beretta]

Pawdaddy, excellent topic!!

Over on Glocktalk we have a thread going on a member who was killed because he walked into a robbery, taken completely by surprise. He was armed, I think a G21, but he never got a chance to retaliate although we heard he put up a helluva fight, may he R.I.P!! Here in our country an off-duty policeman was recently killed in a similar situation but is story is different- he picked up on the robbery but it appears as if he was not able to remove his pistol from concealment in time. He MOVED as some of you say we should but guess what, the robbers MOVED ALSO..they eventually flanked the policeman and shot him to death..may he R.I.P. Here the policemen carry SA BHP which requires some degree of manipulation, but that is a different thread..

Anyway, the point is that one of the posters on Glocktalk made a powerful statement. He said that in our minds we always have the drop on the bad guys, the bad guys are going to be slower, less accurate, less aware, less intelligent, less mobile, less of everything needed to win in a fight.. guess what guys- that is rarely ever so..

Highly trained SWAT operatives have gone up against teenage gunmen (with none of the training the SWAT has) and been killed, not once, not twice..

We are at a DISADVANTAGE ALWAYS AGAINST CRIMINALS BECAUSE WE HAVE TO BE REACTIVE AND VERY FEW OF US HAS THE REAL-LIFE EXPOSURE THAT THEY HAVE.. we try to minimise this by continuous practice in gunfighting/fighting. This affection I see with some for a CCW gun shooting sub-2 inch groups at 25 yds. is all good and well and it has it uses in terms of knowing how your gun fires and your ability to maintain sight picture and alignment and trigger control but this is basic and there is way more East to go. Unfortunately some of us become stuck here and never move to the next level..

Answer this, from the Tueller drill experiment, would you pull your gun and fire at a perp 15 feet away and closing or would you try to evade or use your foot to deliver a kick, pull your knife, or a combination of these.. what would you do?? and how quickly?? what if you fail (yes, you can fail)?? Plan B or beg for mercy?? Supposing whilst delivering a kick you fired the weapon also, would you shoot your foot?? Guys lets be realistic, we see women take a 15-minute self-defence class and that will protect them from a rapist? We carry a .45 caliber pistol and suddenly we are invincible? We are blackbelts in kendo, judo, tai chi and suddenly we can punch out everybody?

It doesn't work like that.. I leave you all with a statement seen at a local gun club (not verbatim) 'Remember to practice always, because the other man is always practicing and when you both meet you'll know the difference.'

 

[22luvr]

A very though-provoking thread

I've always pocket-carried simply because I can have my hand on my gun as often as I want without arousing suspicion.

I carry a Smith 340SC Scandium .357 mag. This gives me a good power-to-weight-to size ratio. I also chose the enclosed hammer model so I can shoot from the pocket, if some perp gets the jump on me. (anyone ever try to shoot from the pocket wearing an old pair of pants?)

I'm also a naturally wary individual, suspicious by nature, and I've gone out the side door, when younger, to avoid an escalating violent situation more than once.

I'm not confrontational but at age 57, I'm 5'-10" and 205 lbs, very husky and solid from years of aircraft loading. Perps aren't generally going to pick on someone like me but go for someone smaller or perhaps a female.

I hope I never have to draw my gun to protect me or my family but if I do, I like the historical stopping power of the .357 mag to stop hostilities quickly.

I'd also like to take up IDPA so I can practice shooting from different positions (flat on my back, God forbid) off-handed and on the move.
It looks like an invaluable skill to learn and fun to boot.

 

[Loaded]

I don't "live to carry." I "carry to live." Before I was able to leagally carry concealed, I told myself (after having gotten shot in the leg by a robber) that I would never again be a victim or a statistic as long as I live. So now, I will go down in a blaze of glory rather than running away, ????ting my pants, freezing, or throwing a wad of stapled $20's on the ground hoping the punk will be happy and leave. Nope, I'm taking the SOB out of the equation.

Think about this. Most losers who choose to rob people don't spend hours at the range, practicing their draw, or reading up on the latest and greatest techniques. They sit around getting stoned half the time and the other half usually is spent with other losers talking trash. I like to think I am much more intelligent and in better shape than they are and being so, I am not going to cowtow to their silly demands that I give them my hard earned money and be thankful that they didn't "hurt" me. Screw that! He's going to be dead and I'm going to give a written and oral report to the police once I have my lawyer present while doing so.

 

[Byron Quick]

I collected money and repossesed possessions from deadbeats for 15 years. In areas of Augusta that the police patrol in pairs. Sunset Homes, Telfair Manor, Gilbert Manor... Muggers don't like folk who are aware of their surroundings. Condition yellow? I lived on the edge of condition red.

There are plenty of people out there who will backshoot you or ambush you. There's damn few who'll try you when they know you're armed and ready. Due to my job, it was unavoidable that people knew I was carrying money. I let people know then that I was armed and fully intended to use it if necessary. I was in the middle of a riot that started at a local business. I was the only person of my ethnicity who was not assaulted. My vehicle was the only vehicle not damaged.

I had a guy walk up to me one night on the sidewalk and ask,"What would you do if someone tried to rob you?"

"Try to blow their head clean off of their shoulders,"I replied as I drew my FN HP. He mumbled that he was just joking and scurried away. Joking, my eye, he was on the lead in to rob me then. I was supposed to start quaking in fear.

I've beaten a real "Tueller drill" that started with no warning from a distance of four feet. I moved off the line of attack by stepping backward to my right at a forty-five degree angle.(Granted it was a BIG step) while preparing to draw. My assailant realized three things: 1)I wasn't where he was attacking. 2)He couldn't reach me from where he was and would have to turn and step again to do so, and 3) I appeared to be drawing a gun. He dropped his sledge hammer handle and talked very reasonably from that point on. We agreed that I would, in fact, repossess my merchandise.

Seeing as how I've been in the situation for real from a distance of four feet and facing an assailant who had a weapon with a reach of three feet and successfully manuevered, avoided the attack, and was in position to continue my draw and fire before he could turn and continue his attack...I don't really pay much attention to the Tueller drill. I don't know what folks are doing during the Tueller drill as I've only read about them. But the results that people relate do not square with my experience with an actual attack delivered with absolutely no warning during a conversation that amicable to the point of the attack.

That said, I avoid bad areas as much as possible. I found another line of work at the end of 1990.

If you maintain awareness and watch your six, you'll have time to draw and fire. Look into the store before you enter. If you can't see into the store...start patronizing a different store where you can. About the worst situation you can get into is walking into an ongoing robbery where the bad guys already have guns out. So don't do it.

I've wound up on the ground with a concussion three times. Twice I was in a fight and didn't watch behind. The third time I was doing something stupid and didn't watch behind me. (Don't do stupid stuff...look behind you if you do.)

If you can draw smoothly from your holster, maintain awareness of your surroundings, and avoid trouble areas you shouldn't get into a position where you have to worry.

 

[Texas Bob]

Try idpa concealling in your favorite manner. No, the national will not saction pocket ccw, but at the local club level RO's are more attentive to local concerns, provided they believe you are safety conscious. I've seen several people over the years modify their dress after a little competition and having to draw from concealment. Other people have validated how they are concealling and able to draw and fire under timed competition.

 

[Blueduck]

Think about this. Most losers who choose to rob people don't spend hours at the range, practicing their draw, or reading up on the latest and greatest techniques. They sit around getting stoned half the time and the other half usually is spent with other losers talking trash.

Agreed, many are like that, but I would never feel overconfident about it.

Many low lifes have also spent extended periods incarcerated. Spending 16 hours a day 7 days a week on three year strech doing nothing but working out, and exchanging fighting, disarming and various ambush strategies with other inmates can make for a very dangerous foe. Kinda makes a week with Jeff Cooper and an occasional weekend trip to the range pale in comparison...

 

[Island Beretta]

Ever hear some at the movies?..they can identify every gun and state its capabilities and limitations. They also shout instructions to the 'movie' bad guys on correcting or doing tactical maneuvers!!

You dare not say 'Shhh'