concealed carry in public schools Poll

[ozarkgunner]

I'm am also trying to teach my son and daughters situational awareness, as brought up in another post. I am very tempted to purchase one of the back packs that I have seen advertised that have armor plates in them. I delieve they are supposed to be level 3 of some sort. I would like to see some reviews on them. Anyone have any info one them?
Would any of you with kids get one for them if they are work?
Alot of this issue comes from paranoia, but also from rescent events. But school shootings are nothing new, they are just more frequent, and more severe. I'm from East LA, and school shootings in and around them are nothing new. But I also lived for many years in south western Arizona. And there were always guns and or rifles in quite a few of the vehicles in my schools parking lot. And it was never an issue. I knew people on both ends of the spectrum, and it wasn't the guns you knew about that anybody was worried about, it was the ones that you didn't.
I would be for the extra school funding to have armed guards so to speek. Preferably plain clothes, undercover type. Ex-cops or military, not the "apply here" airport security. I might even go as far as putting together a training program for rotating volunteers from the school system. A regularly seen parent on the school grounds would not be obvious security. I am often at my kids school for PTA reasons. I'm sure it would be quite a feat to get something like that passed voters and the school board. Lack of experience, emotional, etc, etc.
Yes it could be a bad idea, but feel free to add.

 

[Dambugg]

I voted yes and my kids will e in school in a couple of years. A couple years ago a local teacher wanted to carry at school because she had a bitter divorce and was threatened by her ex whom she had a restraining order against. Because she worked at a school and the school has a no firearms policy she was unable to carry if she wanted to keep her job. After a long court battle a recent appeal ruled that she could not carry because the school had the right to make it's own policies. This woman was made to look like a wacko in the local news and many gun owners felt sorry for her situation. I vote yes.

 

[ny32182]

There is nothing different about a school vs. any other place. For some reason, some people who support carry generally don't support it at school. Who knows why.

Having kids somewhere means you should ban carry? Well guess what. Those kids don't sleep there on the nights and weekends. They go to the mall, the grocery store, and run around in the street playing. Should we ban carry in all those places too? You either support carry in public spaces or you don't; there is nothing special about a school from a practical viewpoint.

 

[Atroxus]

VI:
ask yourself this. Do you want these teachers of your daughter to be legally armed?

http://www.mercurynews.com/sunnyvale/ci_13273650?nclick_check=1

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0809/650019.html

http://www.cliffviewpilot.com/bergen/329-married-phys-ed-teacher-charged-with-having-sex-with-minor

http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/4652931

http://www.qctimes.com/news/local/article_c5fba43a-8775-11de-8bca-001cc4c03286.html

Those people are scumbags, and will be scumbags with or without a weapon. I think it is stupid to penalize the majority for the failings of the few, it's no better than the antis trying to keep us from owning guns because criminals use them to commit crimes. Then again maybe those guys would think twice about abusing the children in their care if the parents picking them up from school were all armed? My wife is a school teacher and it drives me nuts that she is not allowed to carry any means of self-defense at work(not even pepper spray due to zero tolerance), despite the presence of gang members in school, and the fact that teachers there have been assaulted by students. Instead of trying to keep legally armed people off school property, maybe we should try to screen teachers better to weed out the sickos.

 

[MM60]

Here's something to think about: Kids in countries where adults carry firearms around openly and regularly tend to mature more quickly and be more responsible in general, whereas kids in the United States are sheltered from everything gun-related for the entire 12+ years they are in school, and they are often very immature, irresponsible, and just plain stupid all the way up through college and beyond.

There is absolutely no reason why any adult in the United States should be prohibited from carrying any firearm, concealed or openly, to any place whatsoever, unless they are currently locked up in prison. If somebody is dangerous enough that they can't own or carry a firearm, then they are dangerous enough to be locked up in prison.

Like others have stated here, it would be nice if there was a way to guarantee that all firearms owners have the ability to own, carry, and use firearms safely, but I can not think of any way that this could be done that would not infringe on individuals' privacy or 2nd Amendment rights. Background checks and CCW permits are infringements upon our right to keep and bear arms, and they are invasions of our privacy. I don't believe for one minute that the government doesn't have us all on record for when they decide to take everybody's guns away. The only gun-control law that would be even remotely Constitutional would be to require ID for proof of age only (it should be unlawful to record any personal data) before selling a firearm to an individual, and that age would be 18 (and I am in my late 20's).

I am currently going to college to become a public school teacher, and I certainly have the right to carry a weapon on any school grounds, in any courtroom or government building, in state and national parks, etc - as does every other free U.S. citizen. Whether or not this unlawful government permits us to do so, or punishes us for doing it, is a different matter.


Also, what is up with NG VI's quotes?...
Quote:
Gun registration preempts any requirement to obtain search warrant.
Quote:
The 2nd amendment is a right only if you use a gun to defend your state. nothing in there about self defence whatsoever. That's why all gun control laws are legal.

These both seem like something we would hear from an ATF agent or anti-gunner. NG VI, can you explain to us why you use these quotes as your signature line?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

And making the school a "gun (and knife) free zone" made how much difference?

Perhaps we should declare schools as "murder free zones" instead and deal with the crime instead of restricting the tools non-criminals can carry?

why stop at schools? lets make the whole state, no the whole country, no the whole world a crime and murder zone!

 

[DeepSouth]

6.5x55swedish

My first thought after reading you post and voting was ....WOW this poll isn't goning the way he wanted/expected.

286 YES
31 NO


THEN I read this post

ask yourself this. Do you want these teachers of your daughter to be legally armed?

http://www.mercurynews.com/sunnyvale...nclick_check=1

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0809/650019.html

http://www.cliffviewpilot.com/bergen...sex-with-minor

http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/4652931

http://www.qctimes.com/news/local/ar...cc4c03286.html

at which point I almost became angry, what link would 5 sick pedophiles have to honest law abiding teachers.:banghead: You are not getting it, those teachers were NOT LAW ABIDING citizens. If you had provided 5 links to teachers that got in knife fights at schools you might have had an arguement, but I guess you couldn't find any. Which is kind of strange because teachers can (AFAIK) carry a knife and some how they don't get in knife fights everyday.:banghead: I'm gonna stop now....I'm getting mad again..


EDIT:

So when an 18 year old student walks to school with a rifle and does not kill somebody with it that will also be legal.

I still fail to see a problem. I carried a rifle to school for +/- three months every year during hunting season, and guess what I never shot at anything other than paper targets or deer. I guess, with your laws I should be a felon, thanks but no thanks.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

why stop at schools? lets make the whole state, no the whole country, no the whole world a crime and murder free zone!

And we could put us signs, "No murder, rape, mugging, or other crimes allowed."

Now I know there are people who commit murders, rapes, muggings, and other crimes. But I can't believe theywould disobey signs!

 

[Dwrice]

People packing legally aren't a danger ... the real question is, "should criminals be allowed in schools" ... who cares what a law-abiding citizen might have tucked somewhere, when someone with no regard for the law will walk in with whatever they want.

"gun free zones" don't protect anyone but the lawless.

Strange you mention this; my son's middle school has a CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER working as a teacher.

 

[sheepdog]

School districts...

...used to respond to parents' requests and demands...they think they're the oracle of God now...and talk of "our children"...I've had to straighten that out a few times...they are MY children...if all the parents in your school district would stand up to the school district...they'd get rid of that armed robber...they're just afraid of the cost of a civil suit more than of the irate parents...that's a shame...parents have given up their rights and ignored their responsibilities in this case...

 

[sheepdog]

Our Governor...

...has stated he believes that a person licensed to carry firearms should be able to carry them almost anywhere...and I agree...courtrooms and Federal property(states can't control that) are the only places that should be off limits...if we're capable of controlling ourselves and our weapons at the mall, we don't turn into imbeciles when we walk through the door at school...and the news reports prove that our children are not well protected at school...one or two officers aren't enough...
...one school district in Texas has allowed concealed carry permit holders among the staff/teachers to go armed...how they got around the state law making it a felony to do so, I don't know...but I applaud them...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5976922.html

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/teachers_to_be_armed_148.html
...excepting the domestic disputes and crazies...several terrorists have told the gov't that they are planning and intending to target our schools and do here what was done in Russia a few years ago...and make sure the parents outside could hear the screams of their girls and the shots...to cause us the most anguish...I would vote to get every school police officers, teachers, coaches...anyone who would pass the strict background check and get a permit...armed and trained.....and any permit holder should be able to carry at colleges...times have changed and so should the laws...our children are more precious than anything we have...

 

[Ankeny]

Strange you mention this; my son's middle school has a CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER working as a teacher.

Are you sure about that? I just looked up the teacher certification requirements on the MA Department of Education website and a convicted felon can't hold a certificate. Same is true in most states.

 

[Avenger29]

..excepting the domestic disputes and crazies...several terrorists have told the gov't that they are planning and intending to target our schools and do here what was done in Russia a few years ago..

I agree. Sooner or later, we're going to have a Beslan of our own. VA Tech and Columbine are going to look like a day at the playground when that happens.

Oh, and the school resource officers? Well, around here, they only have 1-2 per school, and they generally aren't seen at all during the school day.

 

[trigun87]

I support cc in schools, Im a student in college. Last year there were two rapes in the college I attend. Some classes get out at almost 11pm so obviously the danger is there.

 

[lloveless]

I support the 2 Amend everwhere. I sent my children to private schools and I carried there(concealed). I have never shot anyone. My grandfather grew up in kansas-walked to school-somedays took the .22 somedays the shotgun. All the kids brought guns to school propped them in the back of the room and potted something to eat on the way home. That was the way of life. To my knowledge he never shot anyone. My father was in WW 2. He never mentioned shooting anyone, but he beat my brother and my butts for pointing our fingers at each other and saying bang bang your dead!
ll

 

[Autolycus]

WHere in the BIll of RIghts does it say that I cannot give my 7 year old a .22 revolver and let him take it to public school?

THanks.

 

[TexasBill]

... The only exception to this, is that I don't think a person should be allowed to carry a weapon in a courtroom while proceedings are going on. ...

Why not? The judge has one (I don't know about other states but Texas has allowed judges to carry for years).

I have a son in public school for another five years. I have a daughter in college. I have a grandson in public school and two more grandsons and a granddaughter who will be in public schools. So I think I have a well-vested interest in the topic.

The school district in which my kids are registered does not have a sworn police force. Despite the fact it is one of the largest districts in the state, all it has is a staff of security guards armed only with pepper spray. They don't even have powers of arrest. A local constable's office provides what actual police functions the district has but officers are not always present in schools and response times can be slow.

We always hope there will never be another Columbine, but an armed parent or staff member could bring such an incident to an end before it becomes a massacre. Unarmed but uniformed security officers are just targets in such a situation; they may look great for the school's liability insurance, but they're as useless as boobs on a bull if an armed nut opens up in the school.

This really bothers me as other school districts have actual commissioned police officers and, if you don't want that, Texas does allow licensed security officers to openly carry firearms and authorizes them to detain suspects, by whatever means are necessary, until police can execute a formal arrest.

Even though I am a liberal, I believe we should not compromise our children's safety in the interests of whatever educational philosophy is currently in vogue.

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by TexasBIll:
Why not? The judge has one (I don't know about other states but Texas has allowed judges to carry for years).

I have a son in public school for another five years. I have a daughter in college. I have a grandson in public school and two more grandsons and a granddaughter who will be in public schools. So I think I have a well-vested interest in the topic.

The school district in which my kids are registered does not have a sworn police force. Despite the fact it is one of the largest districts in the state, all it has is a staff of security guards armed only with pepper spray. They don't even have powers of arrest. A local constable's office provides what actual police functions the district has but officers are not always present in schools and response times can be slow.

We always hope there will never be another Columbine, but an armed parent or staff member could bring such an incident to an end before it becomes a massacre. Unarmed but uniformed security officers are just targets in such a situation; they may look great for the school's liability insurance, but they're as useless as boobs on a bull if an armed nut opens up in the school.

This really bothers me as other school districts have actual commissioned police officers and, if you don't want that, Texas does allow licensed security officers to openly carry firearms and authorizes them to detain suspects, by whatever means are necessary, until police can execute a formal arrest.

Even though I am a liberal, I believe we should not compromise our children's safety in the interests of whatever educational philosophy is currently in vogue.

What about instead of an armed parent or teacher, but an armed student?

What does everyone think of 18 year old high school students being allowed to carry while in high school?

 

[strambo]

I find the notion that an armed, yet not highly trained, teacher engaging a threat in a crowded room is more dangerous than having the threat go completely unopposed...to be absurd.

So...the danger of a round from a good guy accidentally hitting an innocent bystander by mistake while taking out the threat is somehow worse than the scumbag deliberately shooting kids undaunted until he runs out of ammo?

If not...what is the reason not to let qualified staff who choose to do so, be armed?

Because they might deliberately miss-use said firearm? I doubt someone bent on murder would only do so if they could lawfully CCW first...and being denied that right, would instead live their lives as law abiding citizens were it not for that temptation of having a gun on them.

EDIT: A child molester doesn't need a gun for that crime so CCW would be immaterial. As for unqualified, I have 3 kids and when they become school age, I'd rather have the biggest goober of a teacher with a gun between them and a shooter...than nothing at all. It won't make the pain of loss any less, but losing a child to a stray bullet from a good guy who stops the threat would be better in my mind than them and others being straight up executed un-apposed.

 

[DeepSouth]

What does everyone think of 18 year old high school students being allowed to carry while in high school?

In most states you have to 21 to get a CCL. So many, many laws would have to be changed.

WHere in the BIll of RIghts does it say that I cannot give my 7 year old a .22 revolver and let him take it to public school?

THanks.

It doesn't, but it doesn't say you can either.

 

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

IMO it is an asinine concept to not allow it. The delusion that some people think that laws that restrict guns in any way reduces crime or murders has pretty much been debunked, don't you think?
I have three kids in school, and my greatest fear is that some nut is going to bring a gun into the school and there isn't a sole there to do anything about it. It seems that the more "gun free" zones we have, the worse the shootings get. This is another place where emotional fears have nullified logic and fact.
I went to school before the "gun free" absurdity existed, you remember those times, before we had mass murders at schools on a regular basis. Bad and tragic things do happen in a free society, but, worse things happen in a less free society.
The bottom line is this, it is a well proven fact that law enforcement can't protect you and that you are the one who is actually responsible for your safety, I do that for both myself and my family. The law says I will send my kids to school, at that point they had better be willing to step up and make protection (real protection, not the illusion of protection) a priority. Their laws have failed, emotional "logic" has failed, it's time to get back to reality.

 

[Avenger29]

What about instead of an armed parent or teacher, but an armed student?

What does everyone think of 18 year old high school students being allowed to carry while in high school?

I think it's an unrealistic goal, especially for now and with the behavior of people today.

Getting teachers and college students armed first is what needs to happen. Getting those under 21 will generally have to wait. Baby steps...

Plus, while I think getting teachers and college students 21 and over armed might be doable in today's society, getting younger people legal to carry would require a major change in people's views.

 

[9MMare]

If it's a 'concealed' weapon, no kids should even know about it. And IMO, it shouldnt be a 'requirement' for teachers, but if they were qualifed CC, why not? Those would be people with the desire and hopefully, the training.

As for visitors, really, the same should apply.

 

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

What about instead of an armed parent or teacher, but an armed student?

What does everyone think of 18 year old high school students being allowed to carry while in high school?

Sadly, today's youth are pampered and spoiled. They lack responsibility and feel entitled. Now, I know there are exceptions, and there are many kids that don't fit that broad brush. But, it fits the majority of the young population these days. As bad as it goes against my core beliefs, most 18 y/o's these days aren't mature enough, especially when amongst their own peer group in a school setting. Our society has generally produced a population of kids completely uneducated in firearms, their use and most of all in the respect they demand.

I realize there are the few who are more than capable, and more than responsible enough. Yet it would only be a matter of time before someone claimed "it's unfair!!" that some weren't allowed, when others were. It reeks of some of the serious culture problems we have in today's society. So, I don't think armed HS students is a great idea. College? You bet, by the time they are 21 they usually have a grasp.

 

[ny32182]

There are plenty of morons in every age group, from 18, to 21, to 35, to 55.

The question is whether CC should be generally allowed in schools, *by CC permit holders*... the same people who carry almost everywhere else.

Since 18 year olds can't hold CC permits, they aren't really pertinent to the question.