Cosmoline
Member
I don't know. Their quarters enrage me. Though these days that queen in her undies is probably worth more than George.
Concealed carry into a foreign consulate?
- Thread starter misANTHrope
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I don't know. Their quarters enrage me. Though these days that queen in her undies is probably worth more than George.
Since you already e-mailed them it is too late, however, NEVER call and ask. Sometimes by asking you alert anti's to the issue, and they will then post in response. As a Tennessean you know ours are legally binding.
Were I in your position, if I knew there were no metal detectors, and I wasn't going to be searched, I would carry. All the people fearing an international incident are comical. Just carry, you are an American, and you never crossed any borders, let the Canadians cry about your actions. I cannot see any possible way they could legitimately try you in Canadian court for this.
Were I in your position, if I knew there were no metal detectors, and I wasn't going to be searched, I would carry. All the people fearing an international incident are comical. Just carry, you are an American, and you never crossed any borders, let the Canadians cry about your actions. I cannot see any possible way they could legitimately try you in Canadian court for this.
Samuel Adams
Member
They'll probably nail you under Georgia's screwy Public Gathering Clause. :banghead:
wrc
Member
misANTHrope said:
Note that the always authoritative Straight Dope's examples that support the prospect of "I might be able to carry without consequence in a Canadian consulate" involve states that were not in normal relations (US/Iran, UK/Cambodia).
I'd ask the consulate. If they expect regular US visitors, including LE and diplo security forces, they probably have a weapons detention capability.
misANTHrope
Member
SomeKid said:
In this particular case, the threat of having them post the office is nonexistent, since Georgia does not recognize any signage as carrying the force of law. And outside of seeking permission from the Consul General, there's still the prickly issue of GA's "publicly owned building" law. Does "publicly owned" only refer to the American public? I don't know, and I don't want to give some lawyer the opportunity to argue it in court.
End result, I'm asking them up front, even though I'm fairly certain what kind of response I'll get. I know, I know... "concealed is concealed"- but I'm not a big fan of using that phrase to justify breaking the law.
misANTHrope
Member
Well, the answer I got back from the consulate was about what I expected. Weapons are not allowed on the premises, and there was no mention of any way to secure them at all, which would leave me sticking it in the glove box, I reckon.
Of course, this still doesn't answer the question of whether or not it's legal to carry there... that might require some kind of AG opinion to really answer. Speaking personally, though, I'll respect the wishes of a person or organization who doesn't want weapons on their premises, either by going unarmed or by staying home.
This has also become a moot point for me as well. The guy who emailed me back is actually the one who sets up the monthly meetings, and he said that the MySQL speaker they were going to have isn't going to make it due to a mix-up, so I won't be going down for the meeting anyway; I was going specifically to learn from this guy.
Of course, this still doesn't answer the question of whether or not it's legal to carry there... that might require some kind of AG opinion to really answer. Speaking personally, though, I'll respect the wishes of a person or organization who doesn't want weapons on their premises, either by going unarmed or by staying home.
This has also become a moot point for me as well. The guy who emailed me back is actually the one who sets up the monthly meetings, and he said that the MySQL speaker they were going to have isn't going to make it due to a mix-up, so I won't be going down for the meeting anyway; I was going specifically to learn from this guy.
Gray Peterson
Member
Hey, you do know that this is a gathering, technically, and could trigger the law that makes it illegal to carry at them in Georgia, right?
www.georgiapacking.org
The problem is that you've posted so much information about your trip (if you had left out the part about being in Atlanta then maybe it would have been less certain).
I don't want to spread FUD, but I would post over at GeorgiaPacking.org and ask them. They know the Georgia laws on the subject better than anyone else.
www.georgiapacking.org
The problem is that you've posted so much information about your trip (if you had left out the part about being in Atlanta then maybe it would have been less certain).
I don't want to spread FUD, but I would post over at GeorgiaPacking.org and ask them. They know the Georgia laws on the subject better than anyone else.
" Were I in your position, if I knew there were no metal detectors, and I wasn't going to be searched, I would carry. All the people fearing an international incident are comical. Just carry, you are an American, and you never crossed any borders, let the Canadians cry about your actions. I cannot see any possible way they could legitimately try you in Canadian court for this."
you haven't worked with foreign embassies or consulates and haven't been in the diplomatic arena, have you? I have and Dept of State is responsible for overall security measures at foreign posts inside the U.S. This kind of cowboy attitude is reckless and I agree with the poster who said some CCW holders tend to just push the envelope. I guarentee you if you carried in a consulate and they found out about it, you would be sitting with Dept of State Diplomatic Security Agents being questioned and "interrogated". They are not going to treat you like some prisoner at Gitmo but you will have your time wasted by being questioned over and over again and your background checked, blah blah blah. Good luck with getting your gun back without a fight, Heller or no Heller. They don't joke around with this kind of stuff.
you haven't worked with foreign embassies or consulates and haven't been in the diplomatic arena, have you? I have and Dept of State is responsible for overall security measures at foreign posts inside the U.S. This kind of cowboy attitude is reckless and I agree with the poster who said some CCW holders tend to just push the envelope. I guarentee you if you carried in a consulate and they found out about it, you would be sitting with Dept of State Diplomatic Security Agents being questioned and "interrogated". They are not going to treat you like some prisoner at Gitmo but you will have your time wasted by being questioned over and over again and your background checked, blah blah blah. Good luck with getting your gun back without a fight, Heller or no Heller. They don't joke around with this kind of stuff.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
brickeyee pretty well summed it up: The folks in control of any premises determine the behavior of all who enter. The owner or the renter of a building has the El Primo Maximo legal sayso about concealed carry inside that building.
Art
Art
Sure, but lots of other more likely Candian targets to strike, starting with the Canadian troops themselves, Canadian diplomatic facilities in the Middle East and Canada itself (where there has been one plot at least). Then if you are striking America there are many, many more exciting targets. Even when you get to Atlanta I can think of two high profile American targets off the top of my head more interesting than the Canadian consulate.
Keep in mind that this could only be a couple of guys renting an office in a building. Even if they have security (most likely locally hired) doesn't mean it covers this conference room outisde the main office (we have situations like overseas for US Embassies), and it in fact sounds like it doesn't
So, I think interesting question and the poster did the right thing and checked, and unsurprisingly, got a no.
Aguila Blanca
Member
How do you construe the Georgia law on public gatherings to include this meeting? To me it doesn't appear to be a "pub,ic gathering" in any way, shape or form. (a) It isn't a metting open to the public, and (b) it didn't seem to me that it would involve anywhere NEAR the number of people contemplated by the law (400 to 500 people).
langenc
Member
Make em say NO, if that is the policy. Could push it and ask for in writing (policy).
Scoutsout2645
Member
Carrying into a foreign consulate is a BAD IDEA unless you are looking to make a political statement that would simply make CCW holders look like the gun-crazy wingnuts that our opponents already think we are.
"Potential issue one is GA's prohibition on carrying into publicly-owned buildings"
If the state law prohibits this you will be arrested, charged and prosecuted. ESPECIALLY because it involves stepping on the diplomatic protections we give foreign consulates.
"I'll be attending a casual meeting of PHP developers down in Atlanta"
"since I am my own boss I can say for sure that I won't get fired"
While you probably can't fire yourself, as a businessman think of the consequences of getting arrested--foolishly and probably in what might become a high-profile case--in front of your collegues. What is the likelyhood that the Canadian Consulate would allow your conference to be held there again? If you're doing this at their consulate, I'm assuming you do significant business w/ Canada. How would this incident affect your business? Are the consequences to your livelihood worth the unarmed walk from your car/hotel to the consulate?
"Actually, there is no security whatsoever at the consulate"
Just because the odds of getting caught are slim, are you saying this justifies doing something illegal? I hope not. We all need to realise that shooting enthusiasts and CCW holders are portrayed as "gun-nuts" in the media. By behaving recklessly, irresponsibly or illegally we hurt our own cause the most by proving that even the "good" gun owners can't be trusted. If we prove that no one can be trusted to have a gun, we ALL know what the next step is.
Also, your profile indicates you're not a GA resident. Does your TN CCW permit allow you to carry in GA? I know out of state CCWs are not valid in the Great State of NJ...just curious how things are handled south of the Mason-Dixon.
And for SomeKid: "I cannot see any possible way they could legitimately try you in Canadian court for this."
You're right, they wouldn't. At best you'd be charged locally in Atlanta, hopefully not with a felony, for violating the law as expressed in "Potential Issue one". At worst, unlawfully carrying into a foreign consulate could carry a federal charge. Either way you risk arrest, loss of time and money defending yourself in court, loss of your right to own ANY firearms EVER, and possibly jail time. You want to face these consequenses to make a point, knock yourself out bucko.
As far as "never call and ask", ignorance is never a valid defense in court. If you call ahead you might find that they have secure lockers in their security office (they do in the Federal Buildings in my state), or you'll find that you can't carry in the building and you can plan other alternatives. Either way beats walking stupidly into a situation that could, and should, be easily avoided.
"Potential issue one is GA's prohibition on carrying into publicly-owned buildings"
If the state law prohibits this you will be arrested, charged and prosecuted. ESPECIALLY because it involves stepping on the diplomatic protections we give foreign consulates.
"I'll be attending a casual meeting of PHP developers down in Atlanta"
"since I am my own boss I can say for sure that I won't get fired"
While you probably can't fire yourself, as a businessman think of the consequences of getting arrested--foolishly and probably in what might become a high-profile case--in front of your collegues. What is the likelyhood that the Canadian Consulate would allow your conference to be held there again? If you're doing this at their consulate, I'm assuming you do significant business w/ Canada. How would this incident affect your business? Are the consequences to your livelihood worth the unarmed walk from your car/hotel to the consulate?
"Actually, there is no security whatsoever at the consulate"
Just because the odds of getting caught are slim, are you saying this justifies doing something illegal? I hope not. We all need to realise that shooting enthusiasts and CCW holders are portrayed as "gun-nuts" in the media. By behaving recklessly, irresponsibly or illegally we hurt our own cause the most by proving that even the "good" gun owners can't be trusted. If we prove that no one can be trusted to have a gun, we ALL know what the next step is.
Also, your profile indicates you're not a GA resident. Does your TN CCW permit allow you to carry in GA? I know out of state CCWs are not valid in the Great State of NJ...just curious how things are handled south of the Mason-Dixon.
And for SomeKid: "I cannot see any possible way they could legitimately try you in Canadian court for this."
You're right, they wouldn't. At best you'd be charged locally in Atlanta, hopefully not with a felony, for violating the law as expressed in "Potential Issue one". At worst, unlawfully carrying into a foreign consulate could carry a federal charge. Either way you risk arrest, loss of time and money defending yourself in court, loss of your right to own ANY firearms EVER, and possibly jail time. You want to face these consequenses to make a point, knock yourself out bucko.
As far as "never call and ask", ignorance is never a valid defense in court. If you call ahead you might find that they have secure lockers in their security office (they do in the Federal Buildings in my state), or you'll find that you can't carry in the building and you can plan other alternatives. Either way beats walking stupidly into a situation that could, and should, be easily avoided.
Scotsout2645, I didn't think New Jersey really issued CCWs, let alone recognized them.
GA, and a number of states both north and south of the Mason-Dixon line (Michigan and Indiana, for example) have broad recognition policies. Looks like both my VA CCCW and the TN CCW are valid in GA.
GA, and a number of states both north and south of the Mason-Dixon line (Michigan and Indiana, for example) have broad recognition policies. Looks like both my VA CCCW and the TN CCW are valid in GA.
Scoutsout2645
Member
Yeah, we issue some. God's cousin got one last week, but he had trouble with the background check...
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