concealed carry + Minor traffic stop

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The more you respectfully chat with the cop, and not act like you think he's a thug, the less likely you are to get a ticket

The general premise is sound but in Co Springs you're going to get the ticket .
I'm somehow not surprised that this is your experience, given the nature of your past comments regarding traffic stops and law enforcement officers.

Perhaps some of you need to spend less time on the internet and more time honing your driving skills, brushing up on traffic laws and maintaining your vehicles so you don't have to worry so much about what to do when you get pulled over ...
 
've never been able to figure that either.Criminals are certainly not going to volunteer any information.

Your State law might say that you have to inform. It may also say that you do NOT have to inform the officer.

Nevertheless, (and speaking from a decidedly biased point of view:D) I really do appreciate it when someone informs me that they are carrying legally. This lets me know immediately that I am dealing with a good guy or gal, and I adjust accordingly.

So, what happens?

I ask them where it is, and my usual response is this: "OK. Just relax, and please keep your hands where I can see them." I have also said, "I'll make a deal with you--you don't reach for yours, and I won't reach for mine." Usually, I'll run your vehicle and name--if you're a permit holder, I know it will more than likely come back clear. I'll explain the reason for the stop, and 999 times out of 1000, tell you to drive carefully and tell you you're free to go. Now, if you want to talk guns, hey--I'm available and willing.

The alternative is decidedly less pleasant; if I or any other officer I know sees a gun and you HAVEN'T informed us that you are carrying legally, at that point, I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt. The stop will escalate at that point into what is known as a "felony" or high risk stop: I will head back to my vehicle, and you will be told to exit the vehicle, you will be proned out, and you will be placed in handcuffs.

At that point, you are NOT under arrest, but you are being detained until I find out that you are carrying legally, that you don't have any warrants, and that you are not in the commission of a criminal act.

Some of you will undoubtedly tell me that I'm a JBT, that I'm trampling on your rights, etc., etc., ad nauseam. Go right ahead. You have to remember one thing--I don't know who you are. I don't care how you're dressed or what you drive.

So, what is my objective? To clear the stop safely, and either send you on your way or take any appropriate and legal law enforcement action that might be necessary.

What do I NOT want to see--or experience? The black eye of the muzzle of a firearm pointed in my direction, and the realization that I just became too complacent and friendly with the WRONG person--followed by the realization that my wife is about to be a widow, followed by the blinding flash of hell--and nothing else.

So go ahead, flame away. I will make sure you get home safe that night, if I stop you for a traffic infraction or for some other reason. If you have the same mindset, well--we'll get along fine.
 
as an aside if we could break down the paranoia a bit if the heroes of the revolution feel safe enough could they share what , if anything ,they do for a living? so we could gather an insight into the level of danger and stress they deal with? we've had one computer consultant on here state that he encountered nearly the same threats as a cop in his day to day job. and he did it with a straight face too. what amuses me no end is that i'll wager i've had more "nonpositive" interaction with cops than most of the heroes of the revolution and i musta been awful lucky cause i just never found the level of bad behavior that these poor picked on folks encounter everytime they leave the house. and i spent a couple decades where my signature line coulda been "today i will break at least 2 commandments and commit o1 or more felonies" and lived up to it .
in my dotage i find myself thinking what are the heroes doing wrong that they get all this grief, but thats just my suspicious nature. even funnier is that while they want the cop to be cool about their gun when the threads about encountering a guy with a gun on the street they seem to believe that as a noncop their heightened awareness/paranoia is warranted and yet they have mastered the art of mental gymnastics that gets them to believe that the cop/target doesn't get to do the same thing. most curious to me
 
Why LEOs feel the need to disarm a non-threatening, legally armed citizen is beyond me." really? do you find a lotta things beyond you? maybe this will help in this particular area of confusion http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6762180/ i suspect not but its worth a try

Nice try! Now, tell us how many of the 57 officers fatally wounded in shootings in 2004 were killed by non-threatening, legally armed persons? You can't, because the article you cite contains no such data describing whether or not the shooters were legally armed at the time. The article you cite is not germane to the discussion. One thing NOT beyond me is the concept of reading comprehension.
 
I'm somehow not surprised that this is your experience, given the nature of your past comments regarding traffic stops and law enforcement officers.

***** +1 ***** Well said Old Dog.
 
ahhh i bet you have some secret handshake that conveys to the cop that you are non threatening. as i suspected my effort was not useful to you for some reason. the article also only lists the ones who die. not the ones wounded or shot at and missed. which is an experience that sticks with ya a while.

and outa curiosity since you brought it up how many would be an acceptable number for you? one? two?
 
as an aside if we could break down the paranoia a bit if the heroes of the revolution

Easy now. They're not starting a revolution, they are just chosing to be less forthcoming with LEO's (while still within the law)

safe enough could they share what , if anything ,they do for a living? so we could gather an insight into the level of danger and stress they deal with?

Interesting premise, and I see where you are going so I'll start.

I'm in Iraq (second time), and I tell cops that I have a gun.


I'll just reitterate my point before we get TOO far off track. If you don't have to tell, and don't want to, that's fine. I really don't care.

But LEO's pick up on your attitude no matter what. If you make it a point to do the bare minimum required by law and act like you're worried about becoming the next brutality victem, the officer will pick up on that nervisness, and probably be more nervious himself.

Now, I'm not advocating the "Submit, Comply, Be Passive!" school of citizenship, but I've found that even a tacit aknowledgment that you were breaking a law makes the whole traffic stop go smoother. Because let's be honest, most of us were breaking a traffic law prior to the stop.
 
POWDERMAN - speaking from a decidedly biased point of view)

Very nicely stated - even from a biased perspective.

You did make a good argument for 'acting like a JBT' when the situation requires and it does make sense when looking at it objectively.

Bottom line is, if both parties in dance are in-step, there is less of a likelyhood that anybody's toes will get stepped on.

Show courtesy and respect and in all likelyhood you will receive courtesy and respect in return . . . . . unless the LEO is a REAL JBT
 
"Why LEOs feel the need to disarm a non-threatening, legally armed citizen is beyond me." really? do you find a lotta things beyond you? maybe this will help in this particular area of confusion http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6762180/ i suspect not but its worth a try

Gee... I wonder how many of those deaths were caused by law-abiding CCW holders... let me take a wild guess... zero.

I understand that LEO's must be nervous during traffic stops, but that does not give them the right to disarm and detain a legal CCW'er out of paranoia. We are not the ones they need to worry about.
 
i already dumpster dove at du if you want to go to the brady site you will find they have documented that contrary to popular delusion a ccw does not make you a saint. and there is no secret "good guy " hand shake that i am aware of.


"On January 30, 1999, a festive day at a Phoenix, AZ, golf tournament turned scary when Brian Murphy, a Arizona Concealed Weapons Permit holder, was arrested after scuffling with police. According to police, an intoxicated Murphy began heckling golf-superstar Tiger Woods on the sixth hole of the Phoenix Open. When confronted by Scottsdale police officer Robert Rucker, Murphy became belligerent. "I told the fan to be quiet," said Officer Rucker, "and he said 'I've got a gun, too' and squared off on me." After tackling Murphy, police found a semi-automatic pistol in his fanny pack"

"Billy Ray Beagle, a Florida concealed weapons permit holder, was killed in a shootout with police on March 25, 1998, after locking himself in a police station bathroom with his gun while being questioned about the slayings of two hunters. During the 9-hour standoff, Beagle confessed that he had killed the two hunters in separate attacks in 1993. Both men had been shot at close range and then robbed. Police hadn't checked Beagle for weapons when he came to the police station because he came to them voluntarily"

now i gotta shower again
 
Yep, that settles it! What was I thinking??? Next time I get stopped for an expired inspection sticker I'm just gonna toss my .45 out on the pavement and prone myself out.
 
if that lifts your skirt go for it. sides it could be spun into a real outrage in your mind and on the net

course you could just keep that sticker current but ymmv
 
Yep, that settles it! What was I thinking??? Next time I get stopped for an expired inspection sticker I'm just gonna toss my .45 out on the pavement and prone myself out.

Was such a statement necessary?

Regardless of whether you have a duty to inform or not, it is a good idea to inform a LEO of said weapon. If you fail to do so and at some point it is observed by the officer, you will likely be staring down the business end of a loaded gun.

Personally, I always have the subject clear the gun and I hold onto it for the duration of the stop, returning it upon conclusion.

Never have I had a CCW holder give me any grief when dealing with them. I treat them with courtesy and respect and I expect the same from them.
 
Was such a statement necessary?

Yes, my statement was absolutely necessary in order to demonstrate the absurd with the absurd. When 9 and 10 year old news stories are dredged up from leftist websites in order to recount the sins of TWO permit holders and to project those propensities for criminal behavior on the rest of us, my statement is absolutely necessary for illustrative purposes and no less absurd than his implications. CDaddy's implication is that we're not to be trusted when statistics and previous experience prove otherwise.

No one here previously claimed permit holders were sinless, but that didn't prevent the accusation from being made.
 
Tell me if you pulled over another cop would you disarm them?

Not coyotehitman but answering for myself, I will say that if my gut feeling told me to I would.

There are no certified good guys. A CCW holder is just like anyone else, if I think I needed to take measures for my own safety I would.

You guys need to stop acting like it's an affront to your manhood to be disarmed during a traffic stop. It's not. I would have no problem with another officer disarming me during a contact. After all he doesn't know me. He doesn't know if I just had it out with my wife, killed her and am thinking I'm about to be caught and am just waiting for the chance to shoot the officer and make my escape. CCW holders are no more or less safe to deal with then anyone else. You deal with individuals not a class.

That officer has no idea how you might react to the traffic citation he's about to write. Most officers in this country work one man patrol. This means he has to take his eyes off of you to complete the citation, run your license on the MDC.....

I tore up a warning ticket one night after I stopped a speeder, made contact, everything felt cool, so I waved off backup and started writing the written warning. In the couple of seconds I had my eyes off him, he had decided that I was writing him a citation and the next thing I know, he's at my window (I had told him to wait in his car) yelling; "You're not going to write me a expletive that would really offend Art's gramma ticket are you?!!"

I tore the written warning I was just about to finish off the pad, said; "If you insist" tore the warning up, "now step up to the trunk of your car, and put your hands on the trunk". While he did that I called for back up and then when backup arrived wrote a citation.

My point is that if he had a firearm and was inclined to use it, I most likely wouldn't be here to argue this with you guys.

I would wager that none of you "certified good guy types" would be comfortable telling someone that you were going to cost him several hundred dollars and maybe have to take a day off work to go to court and then turn your back on him if you knew he was armed.

Jeff
 
If there was no duty to inform in NC, and it wasnt linked to my driver's license, I think I would keep my mouth shut unless I was asked out of the vehicle. As a previous post mentioned, I dont offer answers to questions they dont ask.

But, a little closer to the topic at hand, there is a duty to inform in NC, and here in Buncombe county the LEOs really dont seem to care. When I inform the officer that I am armed, I also tell them about my car gun if I have it.

They're normally more concerned about the car gun than the one in my waistband. I had to step out of the car for one officer, but he just wanted to see my mounted holster. He complimented it, told me to fix my tail light, and sent me on my way.

BTW, for those of you in NC, if you arent armed, you should still inform the LEO that you have a permission slip. Its linked to your license, and traffic stops will go a lot smoother if you tell him about your permit before it pops up on his screen.
 
Powderman said:
Some of you will undoubtedly tell me that I'm a JBT, that I'm trampling on your rights, etc., etc., ad nauseam.

Powderman, I am one who is generally concerned about the behavior of LEOs on this country and the expansion and abuses of police power. But on this one, you'll get no argument from me. I agree 100%. If you see a gun in a traffic stop, you have every right to respond to protect your life. Traffic duty should not be deadly duty.
 
well said Powderman. That's the exact reason i inform...If the situation were reversed, and I was the LEO, I'd like the heads up....

While eventually I'd be on my way as a legal CPL person, the thought of a LEO's gun in my ear because i didn't say anything but he saw something is not my idea of a good time. (and i wouldn't blame him)
 
Regardless of whether you have a duty to inform or not, it is a good idea to inform a LEO of said weapon. If you fail to do so and at some point it is observed by the officer, you will likely be staring down the business end of a loaded gun.

Personally, I always have the subject clear the gun and I hold onto it for the duration of the stop, returning it upon conclusion.

Never have I had a CCW holder give me any grief when dealing with them. I treat them with courtesy and respect and I expect the same from them.

Coyotehitman, no one wants LEOs to go home safely at night more than I do, but you are describing a situation in which a non-threatening citizen gets a gun poked in his face while conducting himself within the confines of the law. The context of this thread is dealing with KNOWN LEGALLY armed citizens. In my previous posts, I made it clear to a LEO with the presentation of my permit that I was legally armed before the LEO proceeded to disarm me. We weren't discussing situations where the legality of firearm possession was in question, and I certainly wasn't implying that all permit holders are angels. I want to go home safely, too, and I certainly don't want to be killed or wounded by a negligent discharge from the LEO or myself. Secondarily, I don't want to be placed in a situation where a firearm accident might occur for which I might be wrongfully blamed.

Disarming non-threatening, law-abiding permit holders is inviting disaster. The unnecessary handling of firearms during a traffic stop is a recipe for trouble. I'm not in the habit of toying with my firearm in a dark vehicle along the roadside whilst a LEO stands over my shoulder with his hand on his weapon. That's a bit unnerving. If you trust a citizen to remove his firearm and clear it in your presence, what makes you believe that citizen is any further threat to your safety to the point that you feel you must then seize his firearm?

I have never and will never give a LEO grief over such issues in the midst of a traffic stop. That's not the place to lodge a complaint if one is warranted. I have no desire to annoy the officer who can deny me my liberty or wound my pocketbook.

I'll respectfully request that you, please, reconsider the disarmament of legally-armed citizens before someone is hurt in an accident.
 
Yes, my statement was absolutely necessary in order to demonstrate the absurd with the absurd. When 9 and 10 year old news stories are dredged up from leftist websites in order to recount the sins of TWO permit holders and to project those propensities for criminal behavior on the rest of us, my statement is absolutely necessary for illustrative purposes and no less absurd than his implications. CDaddy's implication is that we're not to be trusted when statistics and previous experience prove otherwise.

First off, there are no nationwide statistics that prove that as a whole CCW holders are more law abiding then anyone else who has undergone a criminal background check such as daycare workers and school bus drivers, school lunch workers and school custodians. NONE, THEY DO NOT EXIST. Don't even think of dragging up stats for one or two states, doesn't cut it at all, I'm talking about nationwide all 48 states that permit some type of concealed carry. Those statistics don't exist.

These stories didn't come from a left wing site and they are as new as last month:
http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten...RT_07-14-08_B2_3VAOEDS.html?print=yes&sid=101
Officer fatally shot during traffic stop
Monday, July 14, 2008 3:44 AM
By Laura Johnston and Ellen Jan Kleinerman
The Plain Dealer

TWINSBURG -- Police Officer Joshua Miktarian got one handcuff on Ashford Thompson when he stopped him early yesterday, blocks from Thompson's home.

And when police arrived at Thompson's former home in Bedford Heights to arrest him in connection with Miktarian's death, that handcuff still dangled from Thompson's wrist.

They arrested him at 2:41 a.m., less than an hour after police say Miktarian stopped Thompson's car for loud music and suspected driving under the influence.

Two minutes into the traffic stop, Miktarian radioed for help, police said. Almost simultaneously, a 911 caller reported loud shouting and "pop" sounds.

A minute later, a police dispatcher radioed Miktarian, but there was no response.

He was pronounced dead at MetroHealth Medical Center at 2:48 a.m., a homicide caused by multiple gunshot wounds to the head, according to the Cuyahoga County coroner.

Miktarian, 33, was the first officer killed in the line of duty in the Twinsburg Police Department's 56-year history.

Police would not say what kind of weapon was used. Miktarian's German shepherd partner, Bagio, was in the car at the time of the shooting and was not hurt.

Miktarian's death still is under investigation by the Summit County sheriff. Police could not say what happened after he stopped Thompson in the normally quiet suburb.

Thompson, 23, who lives on Glenwood Drive, has a sparse criminal history, according to public records.

A licensed professional nurse, he was found guilty of driving while intoxicated in Shaker Heights Municipal Court in July 2007, records show. Three months earlier, he was charged in Bedford Heights for possessing a firearm in a venue with a liquor permit.

Yesterday, Thompson was arrested without incident at a Cambridge Drive home where he used to live, Bedford Heights Police Chief Tim Kalavsky said. He was being held in the Summit County jail and likely will be charged via video in Cuyahoga Falls Municipal Court today.

Family, friends, co-workers and Twinsburg residents mourned Miktarian, whom they described as always smiling, always making people laugh.

He was raised in Tallmadge and lived there with his wife, Holly, an Oakwood police officer, and their 3-month-old daughter, Thea. He owned a Gionino's Pizza franchise in Sagamore Hills, played guitar in an Akron rock band called Barium and recently began working part-time as a police officer in Uniontown, where he began his law-enforcement career.

Twinsburg Police Chief Chris Noga called him an all-around great officer.

Miktarian is the fourth northeastern Ohio police officer to die on duty in the past two years.

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/in-memoriam/Officer_Joshua_T_Miktarian.html
Twinsburg Officer Mourned
First on-duty killing in department's 56 years shocks colleagues, residents; suspect in Summit jail


TWINSBURG, Ohio -- Police officer Joshua Miktarian got one handcuff on Ashford Thompson when he stopped him early Sunday, blocks from Thompson's home.

And when police arrived at Thompson's former home in Bedford Heights to arrest him in Miktarian's death, that handcuff still dangled from Thompson's wrist.

They arrested him at 2:41 a.m., less than an hour after police say Miktarian -- a K-9 officer who had worked midnight shifts since 1997 -- stopped Thompson's car for loud music and suspected driving under the influence.

Two minutes into the traffic stop, Miktarian radioed for help, police said.

Almost simultaneously, a 9-1-1 caller reported loud shouting and "pop" sounds.

A minute later, police dispatch radioed Miktarian, but there was no response.

He was pronounced dead at MetroHealth Medical Center at 2:48 a.m., a homicide caused by multiple gunshot wounds to the head, according to the Cuyahoga County coroner.

Miktarian, 33, was the first officer killed in the line of duty in the department's 56-year history.

Police would not say what kind of weapon was used. Miktarian's German shepherd partner, Bagio, was in the car at the time of the shooting and was not hurt.

Miktarian's death is still under investigation by the Summit County sheriff.

Police could not say what happened after Miktarian pulled Thompson over in the normally quiet suburb.

"I was in shock," said Twinsburg officer Robert Hilton. "You know it can happen, but think, 'This doesn't happen here in this neighborhood. It's a good community.' "

Thompson, 23, who lives on Glenwood Drive and drives a 1998 Dodge Intrepid, has a sparse criminal history, according to public records.

Thompson, a licensed practical nurse, was found guilty of driving while intoxicated in Shaker Heights Municipal Court in July 2007, records show. Three months earlier, he was charged in Bedford Heights with possessing a firearm in a venue with a liquor permit.

On Sunday, Thompson was arrested without incident at a Cambridge Drive home where he used to live, Bedford Heights Police Chief Tim Kalavsky said. He was in the Summit County Jail, and is expected to be charged via video in Cuyahoga Falls Municipal Court today.

On Sunday afternoon, a woman who said she was Thompson's girlfriend sat on the driveway of the neat, tree-lined Cambridge Drive home and cried.

"How about giving us time to heal?" she said.

Meanwhile, family, friends, co-workers and Twinsburg residents mourned Miktarian, whom they described as always smiling, always making people laugh.

He was raised in Tallmadge and lived there with his wife, Holly, an Oakwood police officer, and their 3-month-old daughter, Thea. He owned a Gionino's Pizza franchise in Sagamore Hills Township, played guitar in an Akron rock band called Barium and recently began working part time as a police officer in Uniontown, where he began his law-enforcement career.

Twinsburg Police Chief Chris Noga called him an all-around great officer.

"People have no idea how much they give their lives to their jobs," said Diane Martin of Twinsburg, who stopped by a makeshift memorial of cellophane-wrapped bouquets, potted plants, balloons and American flags that grew in front of City Hall.

Someone had taped two photos of Miktarian, one his official department head shot, the other of him playing guitar, atop the City Hall sign. A handwritten poster said, "Thank you for keeping our streets safe. May you now watch over us."

Officers' wives planned a candlelight vigil for 9 tonight at City Hall on Ravenna Road, where the Police Department is housed.

Miktarian is the fourth Northeast Ohio police officer to die on duty in the past two years.

The trend began in August 2006, when Cleveland Detective Jonathan "A.J." Schroeder, 37, was shot and killed on West 98th Street. Cleveland Heights Patrolman Jason West, 31, was shot to death in May 2007 while responding to a call about a street fight. Euclid Patrolman George Brentar, 49, died in October 2007 when his cruiser hydroplaned on Interstate 90, crashed and burst into flames. And Cleveland Patrolman Derek Owens, 36, died in March after being shot while chasing four men in southeast Cleveland.

Cleveland Heights Police Chief Martin Lentz, whose officer father was killed on duty in 1957, brought an American flag to the Cuyahoga County coroner's office to drape over Miktarian's body.

Funeral arrangements are pending. The Twinsburg Police Association is accepting donations, police said.

"I pray for all police officers," said Sister Jane Frances, a nun who stopped at the memorial when she saw a woman crying. "They are some of the most selfless people I know."

Plain Dealer reporter Jesse Tinsley and news researcher JoEllen Corrigan contributed to this story.


http://www.cleveland.com/clevelandp...ex.ssf?/base/iscri/121671541950620.xml&coll=2
Ashford Thompson indicted in killing of Twinsburg officer Joshua Miktarian
Tuesday, July 22, 2008
Karen Farkas
Plain Dealer Reporter


Twinsburg- Ashford Thompson, who faces the death penalty if convicted of killing Twinsburg police officer Joshua Miktarian, is accused of using a "pocket pistol," a gun designed specifically to be easily hidden and used at close range.

Thompson, 23, was indicted Monday on charges of aggravated murder, escape, resisting arrest, tampering with evidence and carrying a concealed weapon.

He is accused of killing Miktarian during a traffic stop July 13 in front of his home on Glenwood Drive. Miktarian was shot four times in the head, with three exit wounds, according to search warrant returns filed in Summit County Common Pleas Court and Cuyahoga Falls Municipal Court.

Police recovered three 9 mm Luger casings in the grass east of the driveway and two rounds that went four to five inches into the ground at the same location.

Thompson was arrested at his sister's home in Bedford Heights, where the gun used in the shooting was found in the kitchen, authorities said. The Kel-Tec P11 gun holds a 10-round magazine.

Police recovered a receipt for the gun in a bedroom of the home where Thompson lived with his mother, according to a search warrant return. They also recovered a certificate from Sherwin Shooting Sports in Eastlake for a concealed-carry class, an application for a concealed-carry permit from Cuyahoga County and seven cell phones.

Although Thompson had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, he was charged with that crime because it's illegal to hold or use the weapon while stopped for a law enforcement reason, according to state law.

Thompson's attorney, Larry Zukerman, has claimed the shooting was self-defense. Summit County Prosecutor Sherri Bevan Walsh shrugged off the claims in a news conference at Twinsburg City Hall.

"Killing a police officer to escape your arrest is not self-defense. It is aggravated murder," she said.

Walsh declined to give any details about the case, including how the attack occurred or how Miktarian was able to put a handcuff around Thompson's right wrist.

Plain Dealer reporter John Caniglia contributed to this story.

Sorry but there are no certified good guys....There are just people, and some of them who have CCW permits obviously would murder a police officer to avoid a DUI. Just like anyone else might. You can't let your guard down around anyone and if your gut says disarm, then perhaps you should disarm the subject.

Jeff
 
Not coyotehitman but answering for myself, I will say that if my gut feeling told me to I would.

There's a big difference between I would if I felt it neseccary ( In a state where nobody is supposed to be armed) and I disarm every body.

There are no certified good guys. A CCW holder is just like anyone else, if I think I needed to take measures for my own safety I would

By the same token it could be the cop that flips. I don't like the fact that you have official sanction to put the odds in your favor. Although the instance is probably rare, I am positive that there have been bad cops that take advantage of it.
 
BTW, for those of you in NC, if you aren't armed, you should still inform the LEO that you have a permission slip. Its linked to your license, and traffic stops will go a lot smoother if you tell him about your permit before it pops up on his screen.

Excellent advice Zach,but I'm always armed so always gotta tell him/her anyway.Been behaving lately,haven't been stopped in 2 years and am attempting to lighten my foot and stretch out my string indefinitely.:)
In the 3 times I've been stopped since getting my permit,I was treated with courtesy each time,was never asked to disarm and received 2 warnings and only 1 ticket.
Our troopers here are by and large, quite the gentlemen/women.
 
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