concealed carry + Minor traffic stop

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Thompson, 23, was indicted Monday on charges of aggravated murder, escape, resisting arrest, tampering with evidence and carrying a concealed weapon.
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Doesn't sound like a legally armed CCW to me.
 
for the 10 thousand'th time...

If you are required by law to inform, do so with minimum fuss
"Officer I have a CCW permit"

If you are not required by law then keep your frickin' mouth SHUT unless asked a direct question or you are respectfully asking "Sir am I free to go now?"
 
Doesn't sound like a legally armed CCW to me.
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You obviously missed this:

Although Thompson had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, he was charged with that crime because it's illegal to hold or use the weapon while stopped for a law enforcement reason, according to state law.
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Jeff
 
You guys need to stop acting like it's an affront to your manhood to be disarmed during a traffic stop.
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Come on, Jeff! That's very insulting and immature! Once again, someone on this thread is projecting his response to a given situation on others. The discussion is regarding safety for both LEO and citizen alike and the dangers of unnecessary firearm handling during traffic stops.

1. No one here suggested that LEOs fail to act when threatened or in the midst of perceived threats.
2. No one here claimed permit holders were perfect.

CCW holders are no more or less safe to deal with then anyone else. You deal with individuals not a class.
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Are LEOs no more or less safe to deal with than anyone else? We're talking about individuals not classes. The prevailing attitude of such a comment seems to be that LEOs are never subject to accidents or never capable of nefarious intent.

That officer has no idea how you might react to the traffic citation he's about to write.
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I have no idea how a LEO will handle my firearm, much like the trooper who handed my weapon to me grip first with barrel aimed at his abdomen. I don't appreciate being placed in a position where I might be involved in an accident which results in my or a LEOs injury or death. I've witnessed a LEO at a gun range look down his handgun barrel after experiencing a misfire. Yes, my experience is anecdotal as is Jeff's traffic stop experience, but let's not pretend that accidents are not possible and that unnecessary firearm handling is prudent.

If you're threatened or you reasonably perceive a threat, then by all means disarm the person, but don't disarm some non-threatening permit holder acting within the confines of the law just because you can and because you perceive your need for safety to be greater than his.
 
This thread is roughly the umpteenth iteration of this same subject. This time around is no different from all the previous ones: People reach between their hip pockets to find wild-eyed scenarios which have little relation to reality.

I've found that acting like a mature adult is immensely helpful in avoiding problems during any traffic stop, anywhere.

I've found that acting like a mature adult in one's thought processes before posting keeps threads open longer.
 
for the 10 thousand'th time...

If you are required by law to inform, do so with minimum fuss
"Officer I have a CCW permit"

If you are not required by law then keep your frickin' mouth SHUT unless asked a direct question or you are respectfully asking "Sir am I free to go now?"
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After all of my previous posts, I hope ZeSpectre doesn't mind my endorsement because he's entirely RIGHT!
 
ZeSpectre
for the 10 thousand'th time...

If you are required by law to inform, do so with minimum fuss
"Officer I have a CCW permit"

If you are not required by law then keep your frickin' mouth SHUT unless asked a direct question or you are respectfully asking "Sir am I free to go now?"
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lookn4varmints
After all of my previous posts, I hope ZeSpectre doesn't mind my endorsement because he's entirely RIGHT!
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+1 more to the ZeSpectre chorus!
 
I've been stopped four times since I've had my permit, twice in NC and twice in Michigan. Each time I've handed them my driver's license and CCW permit and they've never disarmed me. One officer in michigan asked where it was and told me to keep my hands on the wheel and one officer in NC spotted my SUB-2000 in the back of the car in plain view and just asked a few questions about it.

I've never had any trouble and never been disarmed. Actually one cop in michigan laughed when I told him and said "Thats ok, I'll just have to shoot you first".
 
2. No one here claimed permit holders were perfect.


but isn't that what the snivelling's about? how come the mean cop takes a certified good guys gun away while doing a traffic stop? the non threatening law abiding guy?though the irony in that is the guy is getting pulled over for breaking some kinda law usually.its plum amazing how the same few folk get all that bad luck and all the mean cops. and trully i believe they play no role in the tenor of the interaction. must be why i get all the good luck. i mean gosh i've been tagged pretty good a bunch of times some not so minor and i've had more bad waiters than bad cops. must just be good luck
 
The three articles you cite originate from The Cleveland Plain Dealer.

there some fact in those articles you dispute? i'll go make a sandwhich while you work on that
 
If you trust a citizen to remove his firearm and clear it in your presence, what makes you believe that citizen is any further threat to your safety to the point that you feel you must then seize his firearm?
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It is much safer this way because I am controlling the environment, I am controlling where I am positioned so as to insure my safety, then I am controlling the firearm for the duration of my contact.

Disarming non-threatening, law-abiding permit holders is inviting disaster. The unnecessary handling of firearms during a traffic stop is a recipe for trouble. I'm not in the habit of toying with my firearm in a dark vehicle along the roadside whilst a LEO stands over my shoulder with his hand on his weapon.
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Your statement is actually a pretty good argument for not allowing CCW inside a motor vehicle.

I see your point, though.
 
Quote:
If you trust a citizen to remove his firearm and clear it in your presence, what makes you believe that citizen is any further threat to your safety to the point that you feel you must then seize his firearm?

It is much safer this way because I am controlling the environment, I am controlling where I am positioned so as to insure my safety, then I am controlling the firearm for the duration of my contact.


Quote:
Disarming non-threatening, law-abiding permit holders is inviting disaster. The unnecessary handling of firearms during a traffic stop is a recipe for trouble. I'm not in the habit of toying with my firearm in a dark vehicle along the roadside whilst a LEO stands over my shoulder with his hand on his weapon.

Your statement is actually a pretty good argument for not allowing CCW inside a motor vehicle.

I see your point, though.
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Well, I'm guessing we'll just have to agree to respectfully disagree here. From my standpoint and I dare say from the standpoint of some others posting here, we'll always argue that you are no less safe when we retain our firearms as we're behaving appropriately, respectfully, and civilly during traffic stops. I don't believe any of us are asking LE for a carte blanche good guy certificate. Demeanor, attitude, and other factors are certainly in play. Granted, we broke a traffic law in order for us to be stopped, but hopefully we didn't do something of a criminal nature to warrant a face full of gun barrel. I'd venture to say the majority of us just want to go about our daily lives and make it safely home; just like you guys.

Regarding your comment pertaining to motor vehicle carry, again, let's agree to disagree. I'm not unnecessarily toying with my firearm in my vehicle. It's stays on my hip unless I must act in order to remain within the confines of sundry CCW laws. I'm not doing anything in my vehicle I wouldn't be required to do on foot.

Thanks for the great debate and be safe.
 
LEOs have a tough/dangerous enough job as it is. Yeah, CCW holders tend to be a "cut above" the average citizen, but since we all know that that isn't always the case, why beef on 'em for trying to make sure they get home to their family & a cold beer that evening? Anyone here live in the OK/TX area, in the late '80's, when that rash of Trooper/HP killings was happening? If politely informing them that you're carrying earns you an extra bit of respect & courtesy, then what's the prob?

I know, it's a pride thing, not wanting to be disarmed. But seriously, there's an armed LEO in extremely close proximity to you; it's not like your life is in any grave danger at that point.

I don't have my permit (yet) & don't CC because of that. But, when I've been stopped, I've politely informed the officer (dome light on, engine off, hands on steering wheel) that I had a loaded pistol laying on my passenger seat. Every single time, they simply either grunted a thanks or commented "Oh, yer a wheelgun fan. Nice piece, now the reason..."

If the law requires you to inform, then just friggin do it. If it doesn't & you don't, I hope to hell the LEO doesn't see/find it by surprise.
 
sadly that site was the fourth one that came up when i ran a search under the officers name. i hada read it twice i though i was hallucinating then i wanted to believe it was a bad joke the reallity came slowly and painfully.
i take it you don't dispute the facts in the articles though
 
MPGV-
I also understand that he/she will likely remove me from the vehicle and confiscate my weapon for the duration of the stop.
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I have never been disarmed during a stop. All I get is, "thanks for telling me. Don't touch it while we're on the side of the road here."

Why in the world would an LEO want to disarm a permit holder? Safety? Please.

Let me see if I have this right, officer. You want me to pick up my pistol and either clear it or just hand it to you? This action will make you feel safer? WRONG!
You just ratcheted up YOUR danger level immensely.

I have a gun in my hand, where is yours? Oh, in your holster with your hand hovering nearby. On your mark. Get set. GO!

Ok, Mr. Jerry Miculek, you got me. Dang that was fast. Oh, you're not Jerry? Oops. That was pretty dang slow. You're really gonna need a bandage on that.

The only safe way would be like a felony stop. The whole, "walk backwards towards my voice. Stop! Down on your knees..."

Do this to a permit holder? Man-card check on aisle 12. ;)
 
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Let me see if I have this right, officer. You want me to pick up my pistol and either clear it or just hand it to you? This action will make you feel safer? WRONG!
You just ratcheted up YOUR danger level immensely.
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And that is perhaps the most pertinent post here.

If you are stopped by an officer; you inform them that you are carrying and that you have a permit, and they tell you to HAND THE GUN TO THEM, DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, REACH FOR YOUR GUN.

That is the hallmark of the inexperienced and/or complacent officer.

Tell them this: "I really don't feel right handling a loaded firearm in your presence under these circumstances. I'd prefer that YOU get it; what do you want me to do now?"

Hence my answers in the post above. As long as I see your hands, and they're empty, we're both OK.
 
As long as I see your hands, and they're empty, we're both OK.
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Agreed. There is a laundry list of things that can go wrong whenever a weapon is handled. If one doesn't open the can-o-worms by doing action A, then outcomes B, C, D, E and/or F will not occur. Cannot occur.

Oh, outcome D is a bad one. That's the one where his partner on the right, rear quarter panel doesn't hear the demand for the weapon & just sees you apparently drawing on an LEO. Good luck with that one. :eek:


And when the officer goes back to his car to run your info, DON'T start digging in your console for that pack of smokes or rummaging under the seat for your half-eaten Snickers bar. Just sit there. Like this :) or this :fire: but just sit.
 
Tell them this: "I really don't feel right handling a loaded firearm in your presence under these circumstances. I'd prefer that YOU get it; what do you want me to do now?"
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Ummmmm? No.

How about I just don't tell you I'm carrying?

If you ask for my gun I'll tell you I can't get to it while I'm sitting in the car. Next moves on you.
 
If you are stopped by an officer; you inform them that you are carrying and that you have a permit, and they tell you to HAND THE GUN TO THEM, DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, REACH FOR YOUR GUN.

That is the hallmark of the inexperienced and/or complacent officer.

Tell them this: "I really don't feel right handling a loaded firearm in your presence under these circumstances. I'd prefer that YOU get it; what do you want me to do now?"
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Agree. There is no way i am removing my firearm in that situation. If the LEO wants it, i will let him disarm me as he sees fit, but it will be his hand on the pistol, not mine. period. A bad outcome would suck, but i'd rather take the risk of a round in the leg from a ND on the officer's part, than getting popped because my intentions were mistaken by him or another LEO on scene.

I remember reading a news clipping (and forgive me, I don't recall where/when) about a gentleman in a Denny's. Two officers approached him, to question him about his firearm (he was OC'ing). One was closer and speaking w/ him, the other was farther away and out of earshot. The first office politely asked him to disarm for the remainder of their encounter. Told him to slowly draw the weapon, keep it pointed away from everyone and place it on the table. Well he did, and officer # 2 saw what he thought was going down from a distance, drew his weapon and shot the guy. That won't be me....
 
I inform in VA. While not required the officers appreciate the courtesy as well as a calm and courteous manner. I have informed 4 times while carrying, two open carry(on seat), two concealed. Not disarmed the two CCw stops although they were in WV. VA state police are generally polite. Having the permit means you come up when they run your DL so I prefer to inform so they don't come back to the car in a hurry. The possibility that my permit comes up on a cop-puter in say neighboring Maryland means I have to be very careful to obey the law there as it would pretty much be an invitation for them to try to search my car.
 
Funny how all this goes around and around. Both the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) and the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) have issued press releases about how little interaction they have with CHL folks. We're the most law-abiding of any identifiable group.

Well, whoopee! Big surprise! After going through NCIC and doing all the mugshot/fingerprint/LEO signoff, I'd figure we oughta be! Our records are as clean as any LEOs.

Back when one of the Carolinas was considering a CHL law, there was the usual folderol from the antis. Then a state cop lieutenant testified; the gist was, "We favor it. That way, we know who the good guys are." CHL passed.

Sure, there's no perfection in this world, but the odds favor CHL folks. Me, I've made 74 years through playing life's odds, so I must be doing something right.

The thing about being an Olde Phart, coming from my background and rural culture, is that when I meet anybody who gets all exercised about my CHL, I immediately figure I'm dealing with immaturity and all bets are off. Time to go all namby-pamby and mealy-mouthed until I'm once again in the company of adults. I don't care if it's an LEO or some Sweet Thang at a party.

Y'all might have figured that I'm a tad cynical about the dearth of mature-adult though running loose nowadays...

Art
 
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