Concealed Carry restrictions......Getting rid of them

[fjolnirsson]

Just thinking to myself today. My state is pretty good in regards to concealed carry. Not ideal, of course. I would love to have Vermont/Alaska type carry. But, other than that, pretty darn good. The only places I can't carry by state law are Jails and Courthouses. Bars, churches, you name it, I'm able to carry. No requirement to notify LEOs(though I would, as a courtesy), and the permit is good for four years. The training requirement is small, and not hard to satisfy.
Other than the aforementioned Vermont style carry, what one thing would you change about your state carry permit?
The two things that bug me are the lack of reciprocity and the requirement to carry the permit itself.
As far as reciprocity goes, I can get around that with any number of out of state permits. So, I guess my pick goes to the requirement that I keep the permit on my person when carrying. If I am cought carrying without it on my person, it's a felony. Even though it shows up in the database when my name is run. If it was a misdemeanor, not so bad. But a felony? I'm constantly worried I'll lose it, and be gunless until my new permit arrives in the mail. And it's one more thing to bulk up my wallet, and remember to transfer to a secure place when bicycling/swimming/running/etc.
What would you change?

 

[Janitor]

What bugs me most (this week) is that there are the costs involved. In Minnesota, it ends up costing about $200 on average. (~$100 training, $100 permit). For most of us, that's not too much. Look what we spend on the hardware that's piled up in the safe.

There are people who cannot afford $200. What do they do? Eat, or take training? I believe that up here there are at least a couple trainers that are accomidating people who can't swing the normal costs. Maybe more than a couple. But then these folks still have to come up with $100 for the permit. I know - $100 doesn't sound like much. But to say, an older, retired woman living of the remnants of her departed husbands social security...

Poor should not have to mean vulnerable.
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PS - I also hate victim disarmament zones.
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[Standing Wolf]

No American citizen should ever have to pay to exericse his civil rights. If government wants to "license" us, it should pick up the tab. If it wants to "check" our "qualifications," it should do so on its own dime, not ours.

Vermont-style carry should be the rule rather than the exception. It's not too soon for other states to follow the lead of Vermont and Alaska.

The idea was proposed in Colorado's legislature about a year ago; none of the courageous Republicans, however, were willing to propose it publicly. It'll come back. Eventually, it will amount to an actual bill. The leftist extremists, of course, will snivel and whine about "blood in the streets," the "wild, wild west," et cetera. Denver will have an hysterical fit.

Maybe Wyoming will do the right thing next. Maybe Montana. I can't predict—but more states will do more to recognize the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

 

[eastwood44mag]

I would change the lack of right to carry in my state. Kick Daley out and let his supporters form their own screwed up state, while leaving us in safety.

 

[neoncowboy]

I get really indignant about:
a. having to apply for, pay for, be approved for and wait for a gov. issued permit to exercise a fundamental right. Can you imagine a worship permit? Or a reading permit? Or a travel permit?

b. being told by the gov a list of places I may not exercise the fundamental right to arms.

What part of 'shall not be infringed' is so confusing to those idiots who wind up in capitol buildings across this nation?

 

[Standing Wolf]

Can you imagine a worship permit? Or a reading permit? Or a travel permit?

Unfortunately, I can.

 

[71Commander]

My biggest beef is the "no carry in post office". You're in violation if you drive into the parking lot.

 

[neoncowboy]

Unfortunately, I can.

Yup.

To be perfectly honest and frank, the possibility of such intrusion on the part of .gov into MY life, in MY lifetime, is one of the bigger reasons that I hold onto the 2nd amendment and my gun freedoms. This possibility is why I train and why I have an AR.

 

[Trip20]

Check out what the state of MA is proposing for it's permit holders. If this doesn't make you sick... nothing will.

 

[garyk/nm]

In New Mexico, we are not allowed to carry anywhere that alcohol is sold. Period. No grocery stores, Wal-mart, C-stores.
That sucks. Not as bad as Trip20's link, but sucky nonetheless.

 

[Firethorn]

I'd like to see a loosening of the banned locations in my state.

I really object to these parts:

62.1-02-04. Places that serve Alcohol and Gaming Sites.

62.1-02-05.A person who possesses a firearm at a public gathering is guilty of a class B misdemeanor. For the purpose of this section, "public gathering" includes athletic or sporting events, schools or school functions, churches or church functions, political rallies or functions, musical concerts, and individuals in publicly owned parks where hunting is not allowed by proclamation and publicly owned or operated buildings.

Of course, I notice that carry in government buildings isn't banned. I still don't get the 'public park' part. Unless they think I'm going to be hunting with my 9mm.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Ohio's relatively new law is a mess. But the biggest problem is car carry. In a motor vehicle, you must carry either (1) in a holster on your person in plain sight (not concealed); (2) locked in the glove box; or (3) in a locked container that is in plain sight. There is no car carry w/o a permit (except locked/unloaded/ammo separate/out of reach.

Second is that carry in/on a posted property is a crime. There is no requirement that you have to refuse to leave when asked.

 

[Z_Infidel]

What Henry Bowman said regarding Ohio.

Plus, the list of restricted areas is pretty large. Oh, and the city of Toledo has already thumbed their noses at the preemption section of the state CCW law. Section 9 specifically states that municipalities cannot pass ordinances that contradict the state law, and yet Toledo passed a law banning carry in city parks. A man who did just that in order to prove a point was arrested, tried, and found guilty of breaking the local law -- the state law was entirely ignored and a judge upheld the conviction. He should win on appeal... even according to the State Attorney General.

Yep, the Ohio CCW law is a good start but it's a real mess that pretty much makes it not worth while to even get a permit. Legislature has been introduced in an effort to improve the law but I'd say it will be an uphill battle. Yet there is hope.

 

[dangit]

What bugs me most (this week) is that there are the costs involved. In Minnesota, it ends up costing about $200 on average. (~$100 training, $100 permit). For most of us, that's not too much. Look what we spend on the hardware that's piled up in the safe.
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$200

Mine cost $10.00, the gas it took to drive down to the sheriffs office, and the 15 min it took to do a background check. No training requirements. No off limits areas exept for post offices (that's a fed law), schools (again fed law) and "any demonstration being held at a public place". Whatever that is. Although the police must first inform you that a demonstration is taking place and give you the opportunity to remove yourself from the area, if I'm reading the law correctly:

(c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was in possession of any firearm.

 

[Azrael256]

I would like to see two things in Texas. Keep in mind these are incremental steps. What I really want is proper recognition of the 2A, changing the term from "Vermont style" to "American style."

First, I want open carry in Texas. I know we likely won't get to unlicensed CCW anytime soon, but I think unrestricted open carry is a good start. It seems to work just fine in other states, and it would be nice, mostly from a convenience standpoint, not to have to conceal if I don't want to. Of course, I would maintain my CHL for when I want to be discreet.

Second, I would do away with all of the "weapon" definitions in the law. Texas prohibits metal knuckles, saps/blackjacks, clubs, and other such weapons to one degree or another. This is somewhere between silly and asinine. Furthermore, Texas prohibits the regulary carry of "Bowie knives." I think we're all students of history here, so we all see the bitter irony of that one.

 

[Janitor]

but I think unrestricted open carry is a good start.

Well ... we have that here, and I've not noticed any blood flowing in the streets.

Even if you don't want to carry open, it's nice to know that if you tuck your shirt in funny leaving the bif that you're guilty of nothing more serious than a fashion faupax.
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[Morgan]

Standing Wolf sez:

If government wants to "license" us, it should pick up the tab. If it wants to "check" our "qualifications," it should do so on its own dime, not ours...

Don't forget the pesky little detail of the government's dime coming from our pockets.

I completely disagree with licensing, but if it is done the fees should be paid by the user, and they shouldn't be exorbitant.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Don't forget the pesky little detail of the government's dime coming from our pockets.

I'd not forgotten that for a moment. It's just that if government has to pick up the tab, it will suddenly find ways to reduce the size of the tab.

 

[Scott F]

We are truly fortunate to live in Oregon. Our permits are easy to get and most counties cooperate. We can carry almost anywhere not restricted by the federal government. I can and do carry in schools for instance. We are an open carry state which protects us if we inadvertently let our concealed handgun show.

The only restriction as far as I can see is that we must have our permit with us at all time when we are carrying. That would be a good requirement to see go away but considering the restrictions from most states we have no complaints.

Check out:
http://www.oregonfirearms.org/

http://oregonconcealedcarry.com/

 

[SMMAssociates]

Here in OH,

Vehicular Carry was a poison pill, if not a way to force us to kill ourselves and our friends & family with un-necessary handling of our firearms. It's also a good way to get arrested for just being there....

Restaurant Carry is a blissninny solution to a non-problem.

But what really cranks me off is that I can't carry in places that I paid for!....

I would understand (and reluctantly accept metal detectors & armed security), but to assume that I'm going to be safe because there's a sign on the front door....

I was going to say "there ought to be a law", but there is one. The Second Amendment. Too bad the anti's in Columbus can't read....

 

[Morgan]

I'd not forgotten that for a moment. It's just that if government has to pick up the tab, it will suddenly find ways to reduce the size of the tab.

Perhaps. More likely they'll just find a way to get more of our dimes.

 

[Standing Wolf]

More likely they'll just find a way to get more of our dimes.

One way or another, government will help itself to more of our hard-earned money.

I just bought another Python this afternoon. I had to wait half an hour for the "approval" to go through, but wasn't required to fork over any extra money. Colorado demands "approval," and therefore conducts the "approval" process at its own expense rather than demanding that we who buy firearms pay an extra fee.

To be sure, the costs of running the "approval" operation come out of the state's budget, but I'd guess the costs are much lower than those in the People's Republic of California, for example, whose subjects are required to pay for government "approval."

Ultimately, I've to say none of that's extremely important. My primary objection is this: we, the people are presumed guilty, and therefore disqualified from keeping and bearing arms until, one way or another, we pay government to concede it can't prove we're guilty.

It should be up to government to prove individuals are guilty rather than individuals to prove we're not. That's all the difference in the world. The purported "simple background check" of today will inevitably lead to much, much more horrendous intrustions in due time—and when they do, they'll cost us even more money, of course.

 

[jnojr]

Other than the aforementioned Vermont style carry, what one thing would you change about your state carry permit?

Being able to get one in the first place.

 

[Valkman]

NV is good, could be alot better. We have shall issue and anyone can carry any loaded gun in their vehicles so that's the good part. Also state law forbids localities passing their own restrictive laws, although some are already in place. Can carry in casinos - as a rule they do not bar CCW holders but you do not want them to see you're carrying. I've not had a problem yet.

The bad - no reprocity with any state. Luckily some state recognize our permit even though we don't recognize theirs.

Takes forever to get the permit - they took longer than the law allowed on mine. They don't care.

Cost $60 for the class and $105 for the background check and permit.

Must test with each gun listed on permit - I had to pay $25 to add my 2 Kimbers plus pay to test with them.

Can only carry guns listed on permit - I really hate that one.

So we have a ways to go, but after living in CA most of my life it's still pretty good.

 

[JJpdxpinkpistols]

We are truly fortunate to live in Oregon. Our permits are easy to get and most counties cooperate.

Just curious...what county *isn't* cooperating? I had zero trouble in Multnomah, the "liberal" county in our fair, green (and currently chilly) state.

I did have to either do an NRA course or the county "Safety" course for 20$, but I didn't find that to be too onerous.

We are an open carry state which protects us if we inadvertently let our concealed handgun show.

Actually, that isn't *quite* true. Depends on the community. If you were to open carry, say, in Pioneer Courthouse Square a.k.a. Portland's Living Room, there could be a stir, and you could be charged with "Creating a Public Nuisance" or "Disturbing the Peace". But it isn't technically illegal...just unusual, and some bliss-ninnies don't see any distinction between CHL's and mafia hitmen. To them, its not just an inert piece of metal, its a device with mythical properties, and an uncanny ability to aim, arm, and fire itself at will.

The only restriction as far as I can see is that we must have our permit with us at all time when we are carrying.

You know...aside from that pesky "...shall not be infringed" stuff in the consitution that really isn't so repulsive. At least the cops that do ask us for ID know that we aren't some random nutball thats just out there. Unless I am mistaken, we have had a more thorough vetting than the teachers around here, backgroundwise. WE aren't the problem. The last tiem a CHL holder was involved in a shooting outside his or her home, it was in defence of a neighbor...this was years ago, IMS.

Check out:
http://www.oregonfirearms.org/

Mr. Starret is GREAT. He did a homeschoolers gun safety course several months back, and was incredibly patient and very kind to all the kids. He didn't even charge us folks. Go there...give them money. He and his group do great work.