Concealed Permit Requirements

[Soybomb]

I think its human nature to want to be the "only one professional enough in the room." A lot of gun owners are gun control supporters, which I find infuriating and depressing. One one front I spend a significant portion of my time fighting anti's while back at home the other supposedly pro-gun people are giving away rights and failing to use the same basic critical thinking skills I try to pound into the heads of the antis. For all the "molon labe" talk I have to read on the internet I sure wish people would stop giving their rights away a little bit at a time.

Ultimately I'd answer your question just like I'd answer the question of an anti. You say you would trust only maybe 2 of 13 people in that entire class with concealed weapons. What you think or feel or imagine they might do doesn't mean anything, you need to bring some evidence. If the carry training is so inadequate in your state, can you demonstrate the bad things done by the 85% of permit holders (based on your observed sample) that you deem unfit to carry firearms? Can you show me any evidence of safety problems in states that either require no training or testing, or the states that don't even require a permit to carry? We have a huge data set available and you need to use it, not just guess.

When the anti's say "there will be blood in the streets if we allow concealed carry" we're quick to throw up that mountain of evidence of states that already allow carry to prove that there will not. When you say "there will be blood in the streets if we don't have permits with tests and training" shouldn't you be looking at the states that don't to see if your fears are founded? We already know what will happen because its happening in multiple places and has been for years, there is no need to play make believe.

 

[Jwebb]

I actually agree with the must take a class to obtain a permit, but highly believe in the open carry law which we currently have over 20,000 petition signatures for in Texas hoping it will pass. Most people look at the sense that people should not be allowed to carry handguns in the "open" legally because it will in the end cause more violence and killings, yet arent there still people out there today carrying hanguns without permits? There will always be the responsible people and the irresponsible people with firearms either way you slice it in my opinion.

 

[dogrunner]

Safe handling and familiarization OUGHT to be taught in high school..........just like drivers ed! Still you are not going to suceed in making everyone a safe and competent weapon handler...just as DE doesn't make everyone a safe and competent driver.

It DOES expose them to the concepts tho and that itself holds value, there is utterly no excuse for any adult to be so grossly ignorant of an everyday article in our society, be it a gun or a vehicle.

In reality, those 'quickie' qualification course given by the various jurisdictions DO NOT assure anyone of the day to day competance of the prospective licensee. They are not basic safety courses, they are NOT designed (regardless of the stated intent) for any purpose other than to generate some record of SUPPOSED training. I have personally witnessed more realistic and thoughtful basic firearms handling when a boy scout than exhibited in the mandated courses for at least two States.....Fella's, the truth is that there IS NO receipe that renders the kind of assurance some on this board seem to desire and I remain to be convinced that there's any value to what I've seen demanded by any jurisdiction prior to licensure.

 

[22-rimfire]

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty ignorant about a lot of things that many would consider everyday stuff. Unfortunately, I don't think a firearm is an everyday article in our society taken as a whole. I can recall struggling to open the hood of my truck on more than one occasion. Many don't know how to check the oil in a car let alone change a tire. The list is endless.

 

[never_retreat]

I voted for No one should have to have a permit.
But I think it should be just marked on your drivers license whether you can or can not own a firearm. Simple

 

[TallPine]

A cigar to you, TallPine

Thanks, but I don't smoke


I have a question for those of you all who think training needs to be required by the govt:

Do I suddenly become less safe with a concealed firearm when I step across the city limits?

Or do I suddenly become less safe with a firearm when my shirt or vest covers it?

 

[brighamr]

I'm glad the continental militia didn't require permits... we might still be wearing white wigs and stockings.

 

[jqbagley]

Crap. I voted for the first one with seeing the last option. No one should need a permit to bear arms, concealed or not.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I like the Texas take on this. You don't need a permit to purchase, but you need a permit (and the requisite competency test) to carry concealed unless you have an immediate need (ie, you're life is being immediately threatened).

There's more to carrying than just shooting proficiency, there's also knowing the law. People need to know that you can't just aimlessly fire at a threat. There are consequences for hitting innocent people. People also need to be aware of things like brandishing a firearm, the fact that the CCW permit does not make them an officer of the law, etc. I know that very few people fail the shooting proficiency part of the Texas CCW test, but still there are a few that do. Back to shooting proficiency; if you see how easy the test is, you would understand why people like that should be denied a permit. They will pose a greater danger to themselves and others.

Still, if there was a situation that warranted it, I wouldn't wish to deny someone the right to protect themselves.

 

[ctdonath]

Why does the question address "concealed" only? Is there some difference in competencies between open & concealed carry that I am unaware of?

Many/most states allow unlicensed open carry. Doesn't that show there isn't a problem with unlicensed carry - open or concealed?

 

[ROVERMAN]

Yes I do. I was alarmed at the number of students in my class that had difficulty hitting a B27 at 7 meters. In my opinion newcomers to owning handguns should have to take and pass a basic competency handgun course as a qualifier to taking the CCH course. But on the other hand I have seen many people that have owned them for years that alarm me when I am at the range too.

 

[CallMeIshmael]

Eureka!

Quote:
"We dont need any more rules for something we dont need rules for in the first place."

Should have thought of that myself. Good thinking!

 

[AK103K]

For those who think we need to require a "test" to get your permit. Should we also go back to taking a test at the polls to vote?

 

[Soybomb]

There's more to carrying than just shooting proficiency, there's also knowing the law. People need to know that you can't just aimlessly fire at a threat. There are consequences for hitting innocent people. People also need to be aware of things like brandishing a firearm, the fact that the CCW permit does not make them an officer of the law, etc. I know that very few people fail the shooting proficiency part of the Texas CCW test, but still there are a few that do. Back to shooting proficiency; if you see how easy the test is, you would understand why people like that should be denied a permit. They will pose a greater danger to themselves and others.

So then we need to have mandatory testing for all gun ownership right? We can't have people firing their guns off wildly in their homes in self defense without knowing the laws.

 

[AK103K]

I think the biggest point missed here is, you are responsible for your actions and have to suffer the consequences if you screw up. It was never the intent of the founding fathers to have government tell us what to do, or at least, thats how I was always taught. You have the right to do as you wish, as long as by doing so, you dont violate anyone else's rights. Well, that was until federal, state, and local government interferences.

To me a drivers license, is just as bad as a pistol permit, or any other permit for whatever reason, and nothing more than people control. All of this is truly about control, and nothing more. Every time you rush out to get a permit or license, you just reinforce the fact your willing to give up a right, and give them the power over you to enforce their rules.

It just amazes me, that what we are told and what really goes on, are two totally different things, but no one seems to notice. What, are y'all askeer'd they might hide the beer and take football off the boob tube?

 

[230RN]

Let's remember the difference between a right to be revoked, and a privilege to be granted.

The latter presumes "guilt," so to speak, in advance.

(By the way, I posted before taking the poll and when I then tried to click on a poll answer it gave me an "already voted" message. So count one more for "No one should have to have a permit.")

 

[Smith]

I mis-read the last choice as "nobody should be allowed to have a permit" and was shocked at how many people chose it! Lol!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I am shocked at the number of people who posted in this thread who consider themselves to be 2nd Amendment advocates, yet who voted AND POSTED in favor of infringing the Constitutional right to keep and "bear" arms.

As the saying goes, people, "What part of 'Shall not be infringed' do you not understand"?

I am incredibly disheartened by the results of this poll Incredibly!

 

[starshooter231]

I agree that the 2A is your permit. However I think all public schools should be required to offer a firearms safety course for all students age X and older.

 

[Prince Yamato]

However I think all public schools should be required to offer a firearms safety course for all students age X and older.

I agree with this too, however, in lieu of this, I favor the CCW class (and by extension, CCW permit).

So then we need to have mandatory testing for all gun ownership right?

No. That is not the extension of my logic. Carrying a loaded weapon in public carries a greater responsibility with it than merely having a loaded weapon at home. At some basic level though, I would like to know that the person preparing to use the weapon in a public area has a basic level of proficiency.

Honestly, you see those people at the range that can't hit the target two feet in front of them? Do you want to be standing next to that "target" when they have to defend themselves in public? I'm not saying I expect everyone to be an expert shooter, but I would expect people to be able to hit center of mass from 7-10 feet. There's some people who are so bad, they can't even do that.

A CCW class is not an infringement. It's a pain in the neck at worst.

Folks, I'm not enthralled by the idea of a permit. They're expensive (at least in Texas) and a pain to get (11 hour class in Texas). But the class isn't worthless. And FWIW, I don't believe in restricting where people can carry. But, when people do carry, I at least want a minimum assurance that they can competently handle their tool.

 

[Prince Yamato]

However I think all public schools should be required to offer a firearms safety course for all students age X and older.

I agree with this too, however, in lieu of this, I favor the CCW class (and by extension, permit).

So then we need to have mandatory testing for all gun ownership right?

No. That is not the extension of my logic. Carrying a loaded weapon in public carries a greater responsibility with it than merely having a loaded weapon at home. At some basic level though, I would like to know that the person preparing to use the weapon in a public area has a basic level of proficiency.

Honestly, you see those people at the range that can't hit the target two feet in front of them? Do you want to be standing next to that "target" when they have to defend themselves in public?

I realize this is a very touchy issue.

 

[Harve Curry]

I didn't vote because the poll didn't offer the option of just carrying.

Sorry, I misread misunderstood that. I went back and voted #5.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I didn't vote because the poll didn't offer the option of just carrying.

Option #5 "No one should have to have a permit"

 

[saspic]

I voted you shouldn't need to have it, but I like the Alaska model where it is optional. Not required, but for those who want the nod from the government, it's available.
I would still get one because it looks good if you are stopped by the police or if you ever have to shoot someone (heavens forbid).

Can't we make politicians take a test on American history and civil liberties? If they fail, let's send them to Army basic training.

 

[jrfoxx]

as has been mentioned, there are 2 states that require NO permit to carry concealed, and thus, require no training.There are then even more states that allow open carry with no permit, and no training, and even more that allow open and/or concealed only with a permit, but getting the permit requires no training. So, given the number of states that list includes, where is the evidence that there is a higher rate of gun accidents realted to carry, bad shoots related to carry, brandishing problems, etc, as compared to states that require training? If there is such a difference, then there should be plenty of evidence to back it up, given the number of people we are talking about right?

I have never seen any of this evidence presented by anyone who has propsed a need for mandatory training, no matter how many times they are asked to do so.

So, those who say mandatory training makes a difference, and is needed, lets see the state by state evidence that shows this.Should be easy to find, as there are a fair number of states with no training requirement to draw from.