Concealed-carry permit database?

[AlexanderA]

Some of the other recent threads (about carrying in a non-reciprocity state, etc.) got me to thinking. Here's a question, for which I don't know the answer:

In my home state, the police have a database of all concealed-carry permit holders, tied in to car registrations. If I were to be pulled over for a traffic violation, the cop would know immediately (by running my license plate) that I had a permit. He would then approach the situation in a somewhat different manner (either pro or con, as the case may be). It wouldn't matter if I was actually carrying or not, at the moment. The same would apply if, say, my wife was driving the car. She would be approached as if she were carrying, even if she were not (and even if she didn't have a permit herself).

Now, here's my question -- does this database extend to other states, that have reciprocity with my home state? In other words, if I was driving in a neighboring state and was pulled over, would the cops have routine access to this information?

And a further question -- would this database of permit holders extend to non-reciprocity states, in other words on a nationwide basis? For example, if I was driving in California (heaven forbid) and got pulled over, would I be "red flagged" for having a concealed-carry permit in my home state? Let's say there were absolutely no guns actually involved -- would I be discriminated against procedurally? Would there be a suspicion that I might be carrying illegally?

Food for thought -- there might be reasons for not applying for a permit, when you consider the cascade of possible adverse consequences. Maybe getting a permit should not be a no-brainer decision. I think people are jumping on the concealed-carry permit bandwagon too hastily. Some of the same people who are worrying about gun registration -- that it might lead to confiscation -- are rushing to get carry permits. This is strangely contradictory. (BTW, this is a strong argument for Arizona-style "constitutional carry.")

(As a side note, having a registered machine gun in my state is not tied in to car registration. Go figure.)

 

[The Bushmaster]

In Missouri your CCW permit is tied to your drivers license. Until he has taken your license back to his car and looked it up he will not know if you are a permit holder or not. Much better idea.

And yes...If out of state when the cop looks up your drivers license he will know if you have a carry permit.

 

[Airbrush Artist]

I only hope if I get pulled over ,He checks my tags first,Then we will be good to go especially after I tell him right away as well that I have a C&C Permit and I ask what do you want me to do Officer...Policemen appreciate that courtesy,Their Life is On the line,a lot more than Ours.and not only that, that infraction that He stopped You for just might become secondary as well...

 

[baz]

And yes...If out of state when the cop looks up your drivers license he will know if you have a carry permit.

I wouldn't let it come to that. I usually hand my permit to the officer along with the DL. In my state, that is not required. I just do it as a courtesy. Most of the LEO's I've met in my state consider us the good guys if we can pass the bgc for a permit.

When traveling in other states, I always check to make sure my permit is honored, but not always whether it is required to show the permit when stopped. Last summer, traveling in TX (I'm from AR), I got stopped. I had my billfold out and open (and both hands clearly visible) as the officer approached the passenger side front window. As the wife rolled it down, and he asked for my registration, I told him I had a permit, and asked if he needed to see it. He asked if I was carrying, I said "yes," so he said to show the permit also. Then he asked where I was carrying, and what. From there we had a friendly conversation about the XDM9 I was carrying. I have yet to meet a cop that thinks it is a big deal to be carrying.

But I'd never thought about whether an out of state stop will result in revealing that I have a permit when they "run" the plates/DL. Not that it matters to me, because they'll know before they "run" it, but maybe someone who is an LEO can chime in, and give a knowledgeable answer about this. What are you really doing when you "run" an out of state plate or DL? Are you getting access to the full database record carried by the other state? Are are you just searching for plates and DL's that are flagged, say for warrants, being expired, or some other such abnormal indicator? If just the latter, then it wouldn't follow that just "running" the DL (in my state, the permit is associated with DL, not a plate) would reveal that I have a permit.

 

[tyeo098]

Sure he can see my CCW, but any requests to search will be met with "Only if I can see yours"

 

[Sam1911]

Now, here's my question -- does this database extend to other states, that have reciprocity with my home state? In other words, if I was driving in a neighboring state and was pulled over, would the cops have routine access to this information?

No.

And a further question -- would this database of permit holders extend to non-reciprocity states, in other words on a nationwide basis?

No.

(As a side note, having a registered machine gun in my state is not tied in to car registration. Go figure.)

Why in heaven's name would it be? What would be the point of that? How about your dog license, business license, or shoe size? They need to be on your driver's license too?

 

[NavyLCDR]

I used to be a lot less careful driving than I am now and would get stopped 3 or 4 times/year, usually for speeding. Either Washington State did not provide the officers with my CPL information or they did not care because no mention of any firearms or CPL has ever been made during the stops, either by the officer or by me. If the officer wants to know about a gun or gun permit, why don't they just ask, "Sir/Ma'am, do you have firearms or other weapons with you today?"

 

[Certaindeaf]

Those "lists" are just kept down in a dank cellar somewhere. It's not like computers exist.

 

[316SS]

If the officer wants to know about a gun or gun permit, why don't they just ask, "Sir/Ma'am, do you have firearms or other weapons with you today?"

And if they did ask, how would you answer? I don't feel compelled to answer questions from strangers about things that are none of their business.

 

[NavyLCDR]

And if they did ask, how would you answer? I don't feel compelled to answer questions from strangers about things that are none of their business.

I would respond with the truth. However, if they are not concerned enough to ask, I am not going to raise the issue by telling (when I am not required to by law.)

 

[316SS]

I would respond with the truth. However, if they are not concerned enough to ask, I am not going to raise the issue by telling (when I am not required to by law.)

The truth is good. But I view that question (assuming there is no legal duty to inform) in the same light I would view being asked where I am going during a traffic stop . I don't see how the knowledge of whether or not I have a concealed carry permit is relevant to an LEO performing their duties, regardless their desire to know. I certainly don't think it is a good idea to tie the existence of a permit to DMV records. It seems like an opportunity for law-abiding folks to potentially be harassed, with no upside.

I have yet to meet a cop that thinks it is a big deal to be carrying.

I hope that doesn't change. Probably best not to visit California, though.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The truth is good. But I view that question (assuming there is no legal duty to inform) in the same light I would view being asked where I am going during a traffic stop . I don't see how the knowledge of whether or not I have a concealed carry permit is relevant to an LEO performing their duties, regardless their desire to know. I certainly don't think it is a good idea to tie the existence of a permit to DMV records. It seems like an opportunity for law-abiding folks to potentially be harassed, with no upside.

I agree completely. I would think it would be more beneficial to police officers' safety to have a duty to inform if the person stopped was a licensed lawyer, and to have their law degree tied to their driver's license...

 

[r1derbike]

Say you are in a state with no need to inform. You are out of state. An officer asks if you are carrying, whether that information shows on his monitor or not. He may see a firearm print beneath your shirt. You say nothing. He then asks to search you or the vehicle, and you tell him you don't consent to any searches.

What are the possible outcomes, provided this is a simple speeding infraction?

 

[Sam1911]

In the highly unlikely even that he does see a pistol? (I'd have to have gotten out of the car for him to see mine.) Several things could happen.

1) If this is a "must notify" state, you could be breaking the law and he could have reasonable suspicion of that fact. Hence, it is a VERY good idea to check www.handgunlaw.us and know exactly what the laws are in the state you'll be carrying in.

2) If that's not the case, he could do nothing, or he could get more insistent about his questioning, and he could order you out of the car, etc. How far he wants to take the matter and how much legal ground you have to stand on regarding your 4th Amendment rights will get a bit tricky. Obviously, if you're ordered out of the car you can lock the door and close it and he really won't have a clear path to searching the vehicle. However, as you're out of the vehicle with him (and the gun is on you, of course) he could do a Terry frisk, find the gun, and put you through a bit of a hassle if he's not a friendly sort. You will eventually be ok, of course, but this would really be one of those "concealed means concealed" moments.

If you're not going to disclose (and I don't, personally) you don't want that gun to become visible accidentally.

Heck, I've had the subject come up simply because the cop saw my carry license in my wallet when I went to get out my driver's license! Now I keep them in separate compartments so that won't happen.

 

[ROCK6]

Interesting...I moved from Texas to Georgia and used my TX CHL until I applied for my GA permit.

I was pulled over (just a warning) and provided the GA officer both my DL and CHL...he just laughed and said that it wasn't needed. I had to explain that in TX you're required to provide it with your DL. I can't remember, but I think it's just your DL that is associated with the DL and not the vehicle license...that would be stupid on a few levels. Not only are SUVs or large trucks dangerous, they could be downright evil if they were armed

I would have concerns if LE was asking about having any firearms during normal traffic violations. What, is there a rogue firearm on the loose gunning people down? Can that rogue firearm car-jack me? Are you asking if I'm providing safe harbor of assisting said firearm? I promise officer, if I find this firearm, I'll be sure to unload it, put it on safety and call 911!!! What is the purpose and unless there's a legal requirement (like in Texas with your CHL) to identify yourself as possessing a firearm, there should be no reason to answer. I don't like to be evasive to LE, but I struggle find the purpose for any such inquiry or question not related to the proposed infraction.

ROCK6

 

[AirForceShooter]

I have a Florida CCW.
I travel from Fla to North Carolina a lot.
The Fla CCW is NOT tied to my license.
Drives troopers in NC and SC nuts.

I always disclose if I'm stopped.
Once was stopped on I-95 in Sc. Trooper walked over and simply asked "where's the gun?"
I told him and asked how he knew. His answer was, he approached every fla car as if it had a gun in it and most did.

Gotta love road trips

AFS