Private message received from Skykomish:
If what you wrote is true, that you conduct warrantless searches without RAS or PC then you are the scum of police officers. What department do you work for? I happen to live in Seattle. You give Seattle cops a bad name.
I've been called worse by better. Why are you angry at the messengers? Myself and mljdeckard are simply outlining what the law currently says. You have the right to work to change our laws but as they stand right now what has been described by he and I are right and lawful.
Skykomish wrote:
Your actions make your department and cops in general look like pondscum. And YOU ARE
I think I have said both in this forum and in others that I can understand why someone may not like the idea of a frisk but let's not attack the messenger. What I have written is upheld throughout the United States. Federal rulings affect every state which is just one reason that cases such as Terry vs. Ohio reach nationwide.
Yes, I have used the frisk of persons and vehicles time after time. It's in accordance with law and consistent with law enforcement prescribed practices. I've been a police officer in three states for just as many agencies from the northern border to the southern. The standard is the same everywhere.
Bobarino wrote:
the cop here had absolutely no probable cause and no right to remove the drive and search or even "frisk" the car.
if someone decides to press an issue such as in the case in this thread, you personally may be held civilly liable for damages.
You're right, he did not have probable cause. A frisk does not require probable cause. It requires reasonable suspicion.
As far as being personally liable, a police officer is not personally liable if their actions are consistent with the law. Like it or not, a frisk of a vehicle is legal.
Hey everyone, I understand the animosity from the viewpoint of a law abiding citizen feeling that their rights are being infringed upon. That however is not the case when a police officer conducts such a frisk. I have not and would not condone such a frisk as an excuse to conduct a baseless search. As mljdeckard pointed out, it is very narrow in scope. Of the many many times that I have employed the frisk I would have to say that my suspicion proved true at least 95% of the time. I did not, nor would it be justifiable, to stop and frisk someone because I felt like it. Therefore, if you are truly a law abiding citizen it is unlikely (not unheard of) that you will ever be subjected to a Terry Stop or frisk.
Saying that a Terry Stop is illegal because of the 4th amendment is akin to saying that all gun laws are illegal because the 2nd amendment clearly states "shall not be infringed." On a very basic level you could argue that there should be no gun laws, period. In fact, I'm not saying that I would necessarily disagree with that. However, as it currently stands most gun laws are deemed constitutional and so is the stop that has been described. Anyone with the means to challenge them may do so but until they succeed.....
By the way, I am not trying to perpetuate the original posting in this thread. It has evolved into a better understanding of the law as it pertains to searches/frisks and how they may apply to the armed public. For that, I think that the thread is worthwhile and hope that many of you have a better understanding because of it.
Also Skykomish, sorry for the words I IM'd you back in response to your personal message to me. I just don't think that the High Road is a place for namecalling.