PISTOLS CONFISCATED BY LEO'S - OHIO

[johnny blaze]

I am in Ohio. I stopped at a local fairly new gun store the other day and heard some alarming news.
Two local citizens have had their firearms taken by LEO'S. The one was taken by the Highway patrol, the other by a local.
The two different incidents involved the CCW permit holders, in both cases, not telling the officer that stopped them that they had a CCW permit right away.
In both cases the individuals were charged with a misdemeanor and the weapons were confiscated.
I was kind of shocked to hear this, but I guess the law is the law. It does state that you are to tell the officer that you have a permit.
I was in an accident when I stopped for a school bus. I instructed the LEO that I had a permit and presented it to him. He asked if I had a gun on me, and I told him that it was locked in the car, and he said alright, and that was that.
Now, if I had the weapon on me it would have to be concealed when out of the car, and in plain sight when in the car, or locked in the glove box or other container according to Ohio law. So, what happens if you get in a LEO car and your weapon is concealed before you get in? I am really trying to figure this whole thing out. You certainly would not want to fool with your gun getting into the LEO'S car. I usually wear a in the pants holster with my shirt over it when out, and when in the car I usually lock up the gun or tuck my shirt in behind the holster so that the gun is in plain sight.
Anyone got any thoughts how this was handled or what to do in the above mentioned situation?

 

[evan price]

I live in Ohio, and unfortunately, Ohio's ccw law is pretty clear on this. If you are stopped & found not to have comitted a crime the officer is by law not allowed to keep your weapon. However, if you fail to follow EXACTLY every point of the CCW laws of Ohio, then you are going to get charged with a crime. Then the weapon is seized as evidence. You may or may not get it back depending on the outcome of the trial.
I'll post the Ohio regs from Packing.org in a moment, my server is acting up.

 

[evan price]

Sec. 2923.126.

(A) If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun; the licensee shall comply with lawful orders of a law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, shall remain in the motor vehicle while stopped, and shall keep the licensee's hands in plain sight while any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves, unless directed otherwise by a law enforcement officer; and the licensee shall not knowingly remove, attempt to remove, grasp, or hold the loaded handgun or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the licensee's hands or fingers, in any manner in violation of division (E) of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code, while any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves. If a law enforcement officer otherwise approaches a person who has been stopped for a law enforcement purpose, if the person is a licensee, and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform the officer that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently is carrying a concealed handgun.

 

[johnny blaze]

Evan
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunitly, the LEO's were within the law. Of course, they could have just issued a warning, after all we are all human and make mistakes.
Before we had the CCW, alot of people were carrying guns illegally. If you were stopped it was entirely up to the officer to charge you or let you go. I know several people who were not even charged then. I guess it all depends on the officer.
I am still trying to determine what the procedure would be as stated above when I was in the accident and if I had been carrying, I would have been concealed, but in the LEO's car, I would have been breaking the law if I was still concealed. This is a question that I have been pondering since the accident.
If I had been carrying, I guess that I could have told the LEO that since I was carrying, I could not get in his car without breaking the law.
If this ever happens again, I want to have some idea as to what to do.
I research the laws in every state that I go into, but I cannot figure what the proper procedure would be here in Ohio.
I definately do not want to end up getting in a bind over a situation that I am not sure what to do.
The locked in the glove box is a no brainer, but the other option of on the person in plain sight, is really hard to follow, getting in and out of the vehicle, making sure that you are concealed out of the car and not concealed in the car.
It is however better than what we had before which is no carry.
Do other states have this? The other ones that I have traveled in do not.
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Now, if I had the weapon on me it would have to be concealed when out of the car,

Isn't open carry still legal in OH? Unless that's been changed, I wouldn't be that worried about keeping concealed out of the car.

And keep your permit with your license, give 'em both to the cop at the same time

 

[Molon Labe]

the law is the law

And the law (in this case) is wrong.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Yes, as was said long ago, "If that is the law, the law is an ass."


I would guess that these incidents took place in northern (or central) Ohio. LEO mentality is a bit different down here. We only have to deal with paranoid shopkeepers who post criminal protection zones.

 

[sacp81170a]

shall promptly inform

Now there's three words that add up to confusion. Does promptly inform mean that the first words out of your mouth have to be "I have a permit and a firearm"? Can you wish the officer a good day, or ask him why he stopped you in the first place? Does prompt mean within 15 seconds, 30 seconds, a minute? Without the details, it's hard to tell. I'm guessing the safe way would be for you to greet the officer and immediately (which would have been a better word to use in the language of the bill, IMO) tell him you've got a CHL and you're carrying.

That, and that section of the law needs to be repealed. When they go into that much detail(knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the licensee's hands or fingers, in any manner in violation of division (E) of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code,? come on) the situation is ripe for abuse of the statute.

 

[Henry Bowman]

The CCW bill was filled with poison pills and "protections" for the paranoid. It will be cleaned up when Ken Blackwell becomes governor.

 

[Erebus]

Well maybe promptly means as the officer approaches wave your CCW card out the window and shout "I've got a gun!". That would surely qualify as prompt.

Agreed way too vague.

 

[johnny blaze]

This happened in central Ohio.
I believe that the CCW law we have now, if you get a CCW permit, you give up your right to open carry, that is why I was concerned as to what to do.
Hopefully the bugs will be worked out if we get the right new governor.
I am just confused about the exact intent of the law. Out present governor would not sign the bill till it had certain language in it. The governor would not go against the HP and gave into their wants.
At least we have a law now, it is better than nothing, but needs alot of work.
I still run into alot or those signs that prohibit carrying guns at certain businesses. They have the right under the law. It just makes no sense. I often wonder how many of their customers are carrying guns illegally. The signs never went up until the CCW law came into effect.
Makes me feel like they are discriminating against legal people carrying guns.
I avoid any businesses with these signs. I have mentioned it to a couple of places, and they did take the sign down.
Hopefully this mess with the present law will be worked out.

 

[KnightHawk67]

As I understand it ( and I have been wrong before ), those signs in your grocery store & such are frequently ignored. They don't have x-ray vision, and if you are caught, they ask you to leave. Thats all they can do. It only gets to be a police matter if you refuse to leave. Then its trespassing.

Just one more stupid section of a stupid law written by a stupid politician.

 

[Henry Bowman]

I believe that the CCW law we have now, if you get a CCW permit, you give up your right to open carry,

On what facts do you base this belief?

Makes me feel like they are discriminating against legal people carrying guns.

Because that is what they are doing.

Out present governor would not sign the bill till it had certain language in it. The governor would not go against the HP and gave into their wants.

The HP was told want to "want" by Taft so that he could hide behind "officer safety" as an excuse for his fear and distrust of an armed populace.

 

[Molon Labe]

those signs in your grocery store & such are frequently ignored. They don't have x-ray vision, and if you are caught, they ask you to leave. Thats all they can do. It only gets to be a police matter if you refuse to leave. Then its trespassing.

You are wrong. Even if you are not asked to leave, you can still get busted for tresspassing.

According to HB 12,

The owner or person in control of private land or premises... may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises. A person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature is guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21 of the Revised Code and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.

 

[johnny blaze]

When I attended the CCW training, we were told by their legal counsel that once you receive a CCW, your right to open carry is given up. I have not read this or checked up on the legal truth to this.
Talking about those signs for no firearms allowed, I know several women that were traveling late at night and stopped at one of the rest stops along the freeway. They were both approached at least one time each while traveling alone at night, by some individaul that was up to no good. The rest areas have the no firearms allowed signs posted. I would think that this is one place that a lady traveling alone at night might want to be packing, or for that matter even a guy traveling alone
I was at a cemetary the other day, and there it was at the gate, "no firearms allowed". NOW THAT IS JUST DOWNRIGHT STUPID!!!!

 

[dpesec]

Johnny,
gee, I bet the Vets are upset, there's no rifle salute for a fallen commarade.

 

[dpesec]

Regarding the open carry. I don't remember reading anything in the bill about that. In the class I had nobody said anything about that.

 

[MechAg94]

If you want to keep a gun out in car, get a little towel or something to lay across it. It is then concealed.

In Texas, I just hand the officer my DL and CHL together. They are both together in my wallet anyway. I think the officer can look up if you have a CHL anyway so there is no point in trying to hide it.

The signs are one of the reasons I like the Texas CHL's law about signs. They allowed "no guns" signs, but made it so specific that most people don't know their little picture of a gun with a line through it doesn't count. It would be nice if there were no limits at all, but I'll take that for now.

 

[hank327]

If you have a CCL, it is best to give it to the LEO if you are stopped along with your DL. Do so even if you are not carrying at that moment, because the fact that you have a CCL will come up as soon as the LEO runs your licensce.

Once while on my motorcycle I was stopped for speeding. As I wasn't carrying, I only presented my DL to the officer. He ran my DL and came back asking if I was carrying a concealed weapon as he noticed that I had a concealed handgun permit issued to me by the state of Texas. I told him that I never carry on my motorcycle as it would be extremely uncomfortable to land on in the event of a dismount. He kinda chuckled and agreed on that point. Still gave me a ticket though.

 

[Molon Labe]

FTR, open carry is perfectly legal in Ohio, regardless of whether or not you have a CCL. They have placed some limitations on this right, but for the most part anyone can open carry.

 

[c_yeager]

This notification of carry is utter nonsense. The only possible purpose of it is to make life difficult for CCW holders. It certainly does nothing to make officers safer. Anyone who plans on shooting a cop isnt likely to worry about wether or not they informed him of their carry status. If you arent going to shoot him, then it doesnt matter if he knows wether or not you are carrying, it wont make him any safer one way or the other.

 

[Art Eatman]

dc_yeager, I'm in accord with MechAg94: It is absolutely zero hassle to have both the driver's license and the handgun-carry license together in one's billfold. Stopped and asked for ID? They come out together. I fail to understand why that's a problem.

As far as RKBA and licenses and all that, it's just the world we live in. The only solution is legislative. It's pointless to bitch about the cops or the right/wrong of All This Evil. The deal is to raise enough ruckus at election time, as part of an organized group who see things your way--and also during the legislative sessions. Plural. Never quit.

Art

 

[1911 guy]

Informing LEO and "Ghostbuster" signs.

First, I live in Ohio and am very familiar with the law here, as screwed up as it is. The law is designed to give LEO's a wide loop to accuse CCW holders of non existent crimes. There is no standard for what constitutes "plain sight" for holstered carry in a vehicle. There is no clear opinion on what constitutes "immediately inform". "Good afternoon, officer. I have a permit and a handgun." may or may not be good enough. Depends entirely on the cop.

As for the no-ccw signs, local jurisdiction will do what they want, regardless of state law. To be legal, signs must be a certain size, red and white and be posted in a conspicuous place outside an entrance. Some local depts. may choose to enforce xerox copy signs or even handwritten notes stuck on doors. As far as tresspassing, you are indeed tresspassing as soon as you step in the door of a posted place. You are not entering the private property on the owner/manager terms, so it's tresspassing. All they can do is ask you to leave. Failing to leave gets the cops involved.

As far as a new governor changing things, I certainly hope so. Daffy Duck would make a better gov. at this point, but I'm not sure anybody in the Ohio race has any more of a clue than the aforementioned Disney character.

 

[SMMAssociates]

1911 guy:

To be legal, signs must be a certain size, red and white and be posted in a conspicuous place outside an entrance. Some local depts. may choose to enforce xerox copy signs or even handwritten notes stuck on doors.

As I have it, except for enumerated CPZs (state property, courthouses, etc.), there's no real standard for signage at all. Size isn't required. Matter of fact it appears that all they have to do is tell you....

It does have to be conspicuous, but should it not be, while the first visit might be free, you have been notified....

Criminal-friendly types don't deserve our custom, but most hospitals and many doctors are posted, as are the BMV's Deputy Registrars. The latter probably should be a lawsuit situation RSN....

Regards,

 

[YK]

Gents,

I live in Illinois, have PA CCW license, and will need to drive from IL to PA. I understand that my CCW will not be recognized in OH since I am not a PA resident.
What's my best option (if any), to have a loaded gun in close proximity while driving through Ohio?