Concerned liberal

[boofus]

As far as Kerry goes, the fact that the Socialists (as in they actually call themselves Socialists) back Kerry is evidence enough that no one who supports individual rights should be voting for the man. Socialist Party sends support to Kerry

Forget the Socialists, the Communist party is endorsing Kerry too. It makes sense, John 'The only war hero to come out of Vietnam-- all the other veterans are babykillers and war criminals' Kerry has an exhibit in some communist museum in Vietnam. The NVA used Kerry's testimony before congress as a form of psychological torture on POWs too.

The man is sickening. Now he is trying to silence 250 of his fellow veterans for speaking out. Those men literally bled for this country and Kerry doesn't feel they have the same 1st Amendment rights as himself, or George Soros or Michael Moore. I'd sooner vote for Attila the Hun rather than Kerry, at least Attila didn't stab his comrades in the back.

Vote how you want, but if you're in Kerry's camp when he does something to make the shooting start, don't expect any favors from me.

 

[Barbara]

I've found over the years that the titles liberal and conservative don't mean much and true believers on either side have more in common with each other than they want to admit.

 

[one45auto]

true believers on either side have more in common with each other than they want to admit.

Huh?!?

I don't have anything in common with someone who suffers from hoplophobia, endorses gun control, supports affirmative action, believes in apologizing for things previous generations did, wants special rights for homosexuals and minorities, thinks anyone with a job is "rich", denounces capitalism, considers the United Nations a reputable organization, thinks war is never the answer but the government is the solution to every problem, etc.

About the only thing liberals and I have in common is citizenship in the same country. Beyond that, we're miles apart ideologically.

 

[Barbara]

Mostly the attitudes, I guess..."Liberals Are Evil, Conservatives Are Evil, Liberals are Communists, Conservatives are Fascists, Liberals want to kill the 2nd Amendment, Conservatives want to kill the 1st. Michael Moore is a stupid fat white man, Rush Limbaugh is a stupid fat white man." It's all kind of hokey..there are extremists on both sides, but the reality is that most people are somewhere in the middle on a lot of issues, but you change the words or the pet freedom each group wants to defend, and you have the same people. Basically, they each choose the side that benefits them the most.

Me? I'm just cranky and a little of both.

Actively Pro-gun, fiscally conservative, pro-free speech, pro-war with Afghanistan, ambivilent-leaning-towards-opposed to war with Iraq, Christian-who-believes-Jesus-wasn't-kidding-about-that-greatest-commandment, anti-abortion, anti-special-rights for heterosexuals, anti-pornography, anti-racist, with a little bit of tree hugging thrown in for good measure. Kind of a radical right wing liberal, you know?

(By the way..I like your GBS quote a lot. )

 

[one45auto]

.....anti-special-rights for heterosexuals...

Heterosexuals? What special rights do we have?

 

[Barbara]

What special rights do homosexuals have?

(If you answer, this will probably get moved to the RT. You can consider it rhetorical, if you want..we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on the topic anyway. )

 

[Malice]

Selfdefenz, did you even read my post before you "responded"?

I said: "But if any religious/ethnic group was singled out, I would stand up for them (including Christians)."

You said, in response: "Could you see no way to come to the aid of say Christians if they were singled out for special attention or persecution by government?"

I am done with this thread if you are going to just ignore what I say and go on with your pre-written argument. I dont see much sense in responding in that case.

As for, say, standing up against a national ID card...
First, I do not know anything about this.
Second, unless it is somthing far worse than I imagine it would be, I do not know if it would be a cause that calls for spilling blood.

 

[Barbara]

Malice, the national ID card is a concern as it is another step down the slope of being tracked every moment of our lives. We already have national id numbers (SS numbers) and most states require a state ID..what is the purpose of a national one, than to centralize power and information?

Is there any point in fighting it? Long term..probably not, I suppose. Every word we type here, every phone call, is run through Carnivore or whatever the successor of that has been..there are video cameras everywhere, we have to give our assigned number out to get goods and services, etc. etc. Some day, we'll all have to make that decision about an implant..and someday after that, no one will even ask anymore when our children are implanted at birth, for their own good. This isn't apocalyptic stuff..its science and its happening in our own time.

Still, we need to resist as much as possible because I honestly fear what life will be like if I live to be an old woman.

 

[TimH]

Barbara said:

Actively Pro-gun, fiscally conservative, pro-free speech, pro-war with Afghanistan, ambivilent-leaning-towards-opposed to war with Iraq, Christian-who-believes-Jesus-wasn't-kidding-about-that-greatest-commandment, anti-abortion, anti-special-rights for heterosexuals, anti-pornography, anti-racist, with a little bit of tree hugging thrown in for good measure. Kind of a radical right wing liberal, you know?

What a woman

 

[one45auto]

What special rights do homosexuals have?

You're right about being moved to the Roundtable, so I'll tiptoe lightly over the PC eggshells by putting it to you like this; Being a heterosexual, if someone murdered me no additional charges or penalties would be assessed, either during the indictment or the sentencing. After all, they were only after my wallet, or my shoes, or they just didn't like me ~ it isn't like they disapproved of my sexuality.

 

[roscoe]

I'd like to believe that most conservatives think along these lines.

If you're Gay, fine. Go about your business and make it your business. . . . Want to have pre-marital sex? Fine . . . Want to fund pornography and call it art? Fine, do it with your own funds. . . . Want to fry your brains on drugs? Fine, go right ahead. (elipsese added)

Ummm - I don't think ol' Newt, or Pres Bush would call you their kind of conservative. Barry Goldwater, who's hardly mentioned these days, is the last conservative of note who thought like that. The fundamentalists and moral majority have gotten too good a hold on the conservatives.

 

[one45auto]

roscoe,

I think that the liberals have slid so far to the left that they make Libertarians look Conservative by contrast. The Democratic party our grandparents knew was, in some ways, far more Conservative than the Republicans are today.

 

[fallingblock]

Welcome Malice......

Glad to see a pro-RKBA stance on your side of the political spectrum.

Kerry is by far the worst of the two electable folks running this election cycle when it comes to RKBA. His victory would spell bad times ahead.

Some of the folks hereabouts put the RKBA issue higher than others.

 

[Barbara]

Yea, I can't argue with that much one45auto, except to say that thankfully, you'll probably never have anyone try to beat you up for being heterosexual. I don't care much for hate crime legislation either, though. If someone harms someone else, it doesn't much matter why, and the punishment should be the same.

With the titles thing, though, I have a friend who is a registered Democrat who is way more conservative than I am about nearly everything, so what the heck does it even mean? He's voting for Bush, no questions asked, because of Kerry's stance on gun issues, and I'm still waffling on which freedoms I'm prepared to give up for a President (No way will I cast a vote for Kerry. I'll either vote for Bush or a 3rd party candidate.)

 

[one45auto]

Barbara,

Although I don't speak of it much, I used to be a Democrat myself. Yes, as hard as it is for many to believe, in my single, pre-marriage/pre-fatherhood years I considered myself to be something of a liberal although I never supported gun control, higher taxes, affirmative action, and so on. (In retrospect, based on my beliefs, I was a Libertarian although I didn't know it at the time.) It was Clinton's first term in office that caused me to forever abandon the Democratic party because under his leadership they moved so far from center that even some staunch Democratic friends of mine were shaking their heads in disbelief. Clinton's endless scandals, anti-gun legislation, and efforts to socialize health care were simply the last straws. I registered as a Republican for the 96' election and have never looked back. If and when the Libertarians ever field a candidate with half a chance of winning the Presidency I'll gladly vote for them, but in the meantime I'm sticking with the Republicans.

 

[Dannyboythisisashowdown]

quote:....anti-special-rights for heterosexuals...


Heterosexuals? What special rights do we have?

We get to marry who we want.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Regarding "rounding up" some group, under Patriot Act powers, I personally have little fear that Bush, Ashcroft, et al will do any such thing. These are reasonable and intelligent people of integrity (for politicians), even if you happen to disagree with many of their policies. Heck, I even disagree with them on policy quite a bit, but I respect them as people.

I don't (respect them as people).

Why not? Because they don't respect me, and they work for me. Worse, they don't respect the Constitution they each took an oath to uphold and defend. I have a great fear of Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft rounding up some group under the Patriot Act. There is no reason for the Patriot Act to exist, but those were the guys who demanded it. The notion that the gummint can simply get a secret warrant from a secret judge and lock up a CITIZEN indefinitely, without charging him/her with any crime and without providing him/her with access to an attorney or to the courts, is "chilling" at the very least.

And no, I don't like Kerry, either. I will probably be forced to vote for Bush to keep Kerry out of the White House, but that doesn't mean I have to pretend I like Bush.