Confronted While Shooting, What To Do?

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hope you don't get your dad in trouble...
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Unfortunately, that seems like the most likely outcome.

Look at the situation from the property (radio station) owners point of view. He probably doesn't give a hoot whether you shoot on his land or not. But he probably does not want a confrontation with a neighboring property owner over guns. Why would he want that headache?

In addition TV and radio companies are notoriously media-shy. It seems odd to say that, but every time their license comes up for renewal, they are scrutinized for "community relations" - I forget the exact phrase. They really don't want problems with that.

If the deer hunter complains to the owner of the property, then I can't imagine the owner doing anything other than calling your dad and saying, "I don't need this hassle - stop letting your son and his friends shoot on my property."

If the owner didn't specifically give your dad permission to allow shooting on the property, then it's likely he will yell at your dad.

If you want to keep shooting there, you have to find some way to coexist peacefully with the deer hunter - and he doesn't have to find a way to coexist peacefully with you. Your use of the radio station's land is probably contingent on his acquiescence - his use of his deer hunting land is not contingent on your acquiescence.

Winning the confrontation almost certainly mean losing the war.

Mike
 
I still think the excuse the guy gave about scareing off game is BS. I'll bet he ised it because the land owner if that wasn't him himself, is a gun hater. By the way he described .22s a and an Ak as high powered rifles makes me think he is a non gun guy or a dumba$$.
 
I'm not sure if its the same in every situation, but a 'property manager' does have the authority to give permission to people to use the land. The property manager in this case was probably acting as a manager for a corporation- not completely unlike property managers who rent/lease properties to tenents and collect the rent money and take care of the legal paperwork for the owners of the property.

The guy with his 2 acres of hunting land was a blowhard, and double that if he expects that his precious property 'rights' extend beyond the boundaries of what is his.
 
+1 cracked butt. The manager is an agent of the owner, and can act on behalf of the owner so long as he does not act outside the law, or against the interests of the owner (a bank manager giving away $100 bills is clearly acting against the interests of the owner and probably outside the law as well; in the case outlined by the OP, it is up to the owner to decide where its interests lie).

husbandofaromanian, with all due respect 25' is plenty close enough to allow a stranger to approach under the circumstances. There are plenty of YouTube videos depicting the relevant drill.
 
4 Things

I would do the following:

1. Keep shooting.
2. Get permission from the owner.
3. Find another place, just in case.
4. Have the radio station switch to easy listening (nice and quiet).
 
However, the owner is still the owner, and can fire the property manager if he doesn't like the way things are being run.

OP: I'd be seriously worried about your dad getting in trouble for this. You should ask him if he's OK'ed your use with the owner, and make sure he knows that the neighbor may be pissed off enough to go to the owner.
 
As much as you may not like it, RPCVYemen (Mike) nailed it.


Think about it. If there was someone doing a hobby that you had no concern for or interest doing something that caused the neighbors to start complaining, you will likely stop it if it endangers in ANY WAY your ability to continue your business.

He may start to think about what he percieves as liabilities. Instead of calling his lawyer and paying billable hours, he can easily make the concern go away: by rescinding the permission.

That is the shortest and cheapest route to making his problem (which really isn't his) go away.


When liscensing is renewed, radio stations are indeed subject to community opinion as to whether or not they "serve their community." This is part of the whole public airwaves thing.

I hate to say it, but reports of shooting and probably soon-to-be photographic evidence will not go favorably to a review commission-- especially since it would be extracurricular to the stated objectives of the Radio Station.


Forget about whether or not the guy was a jerk. Jerks CAN be made into nice people if you need to. And you probably need to. I'd make peace and seek an equitable arrangement post haste.

From my own experience, I suspect that SOMEONE has interupted his hunting and he is likely blaming the person he sees.

I would make an effort to show him that *I* am a respectful and responsible person. From my own experiences of being an EBR hunter, I find that you gain "approval" when you show what you are about. I'd make that effort before I considered anything else.

Likely, the landowner will be impressed that you had enough respect to go to him and find a way to coexist. You may even find that he goes out of his way to accomadate you because of it. I can factually say that I have had that happen in my life-- with ME being that landowner.

People that I once had problems with are now anxiously awaiting me finishing my private range where they'll enjoy shooting with or without me being present.


Just a thought.


-- John
 
I think you handled it just fine. For the record, I don't fault the other guy for approaching you to ask if you had permission to shoot there. He asked you to stop and you refused, and that's fine. He had no authority to do anything else.

The only question I have is about the authority of your dad to give permission for you to shoot on that site. Yes, I know he is the manager, but that is probably not an unlimited authority. He might give you permission to have a wild, drunken orgy there, too. The owner of the property might not think that is great.

If this other guy goes to the cops, and the cops check with the property owner, could your dad get in trouble if the owner thinks that went too far?

Just some things to think about.

K
 
+1 cracked butt. The manager is an agent of the owner, and can act on behalf of the owner so long as he does not act outside the law, or against the interests of the owner
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Yes, but the manager (agent) almost always acts within a scope of responsibilities outlined by the owner. The owner can't think of every conceivable thing the manager *shouldn't* do, so instead it's like, you have the authority to do what it takes to achieve these results and responsibilities. Giving permission for the recreational use of the land surrounding a transmitter tower probably is not one of those responsibilities.

The owner may very well believe that *is* against his interests due to the possible liability in the event of a shooting accident or bad public relations.

Would your dad consider running this by the upper management? If not, why not?

K
 
Well, to answer some of the questions after I left I went to my Dad's place and told him about it, it would be pretty rude of me not too. He was not upset at all. Told me "just don't go back for a few days till I get you a signed letter to carry with you".

Previously I just carried one of his cards with me. If somebody called the number for the radio station it would go to him. He is (the only person) in charge of everything that isn't programing and advertising. He is responsible for making sure the farmer who leases the adjacent fields is doing his part, if the towers loose lights he hires the people to replace them, he hires people to plow the road in the winter and fuel the generator, if drainage ditches need dug they get dug, everything.

When I started shooting there I was worried it could get him in trouble but he told me not to worry. There is zero mention of firearms in any company policy and the guy he replaced used to shoot there some times as well (older Korean vet) and had given the OK for the adjacent farmer to pop varmits if they were on the station property.

I may get a picture of the place to post up, it's hard to describe how well suited it is to shooting. I have other places I can go but this one is 5 min. away and nice and flat, mowed grass, even indoor plumbing so why would I bother going elsewhere?

I'm not a hunter, never have been. I only knew when deer season was because everyone I work with at the Fire Dept. takes vacation to go hunting and I rake in some overtime! I would speculate however that the drop in deer is due to the 3000 homes being built in 4 years in the township on what was previously farm/woods.

If he is indeed a shooter I would much rather have a new shooting buddy than an angry neighbor, but I have never been one to do what everyone else wants at my expense. I'm also friends with nearly all the local deputies, not too worried about an activist cop going off the deep end. Other than keeping it quiet DURING deer season, I just don't know what I could do???

FFMedic
 
FFMedic,

It sounds like you did things well.

I'd still try to make an effort to talk to the guy and come up with a workable relationship, however.

From what he told you, he IS part of the firearms community. You may well have an opportunity to do some PR work for the cause of EBR lovers.

Around here, I am that guy. Most of these folks around here knew me growing up and know my family. So they kinda give me the benefit of the doubt.

But some still don't like those "EBRs." I purposely hunt ONLY with EBRs as a way to show the hunting community around here why we all love them.

Lately, I've had more wanting to check out my rifles and ask me to shoot them than are critical. It's taken me 4 years of being back home, but I think I am winning some converts.

Now they think I can FIX their rifle if it isn't shooting right. I've yet to figure out how my firearms enthusiasm has translated into "gunsmith." But it says something about the respect they are starting to get for those of us who are "really into it."

If I may make the suggestion, give it a try. You just never know.

And if I am wrong, you are STILL the better man that you've shown us to be already.


-- John
 
Is the place marked no tresspass? If so the I wouldn't worry about locking the gat. Get the signed letter and if he comes back do him the favor of calling the police for him. Have him escorted of the place.

Course you might ask him if he would like to join you tell him that when it get's closer to deer season that you will stop.

But 2 acres to hunt on. I have 19 acres and go other places to hunt. Just not enough room here.

I do shoot here but not hunt.
 
most likely the guy uses the radio station property himself, and just didnt want to share it with strangers, ive been questioned by people several times about who i was and where i was from, while hunting, until conversation made them realize i was a local, and only lived a few miles away, then they became friendly and talked openley about hunting , guns, tree stands, just anything we had in common, not sure it would work in your situation, but most people are friendlier when they realize you are practicaly neighbors.
 
The only signs posted are danger signs, high voltage, RF radiation and "no snowmobiles". The previous manager was worried that someone was gonna loose ahead on a guy wire. I will put up a no trespassing sign though with my Dad's OK.

Around where I live people tend to view land with no houses on it as thiers. It's common to see quads in the cut crop fields and I know for a fact they don't have permission most of the time. I have also been confronted by an old man armed with a Glock in a township park because "its after dusk" even though the parks dept. had not locked it down yet.

FFMedic
 
You were fine. I have always advised folks who had concerns that they were welcome to contact the police.

The worst case I ever experienced was a "less-than-bright" person and her dog run right-through-my-line-of-fire!!! I was on state hunting land...posted as hunting land, complete with warning signs.

I had my target stapled to a cardboard box, and was firing with my varmint rig at a couple hundred yards distance. Now, imagine using a very high-powered scope, with very limited field of view. Imagine seeing a dog run through the picture, and the fool owner stepping into the "clearing" 20 yards right...just as you have launched the round. Frankly, I know of no means of recalling a projectile on hunting land.

My point is this. When we target shoot, yes we watch for background, etc, but people are well-advised to let people finish shooting before they walk into an active shooting range, or around posted hunting land, or any where people are shooting. Better yet, they should just call the police. But there too, that doesn't always work out much different. I already posted that one here before. Some people just lack serious intelligence.
 
"Sir, please sign this petition to move suppressors to Title I with federal preemption that way we won't bother you in the future."
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Wow that is perfect. It practicly makes me want to create a petition to keep with me anytime I shoot on outdoor private property.
If anyone shows up they can be directed to the clip board with the petition.

If you don't like loud automobiles you don't outlaw use of the automobile (which is not constitutionaly protected), you allow mufflers without hurdles or restriction!

Expect anyone who confronts you while shooting to be armed, as it is a precaution many would take doing so, both good and bad individuals.
Both honest citizens and criminals can confront you. The weapons used in the famous FBI Miami shootout in 1986 for example were taken from an individual the two criminals had killed who was out legaly target shooting. I wonder under what premise the two confronted the man.
No stranger who approaches you in a remote location can be treated as trustworthy, even if they do so in a friendly manner. You and your friends are your only and last line of defense, and also your only witnesses.
 
You know... this kinda reminds me of the first deer season that I moved back to my hometown-- a few years ago.

One of the men that uses our gate (he needs a right-of-way to get to his land) was sitting at the gate talking to his friends.

Now, I should make four points clear here:

1. The guy I am talking about is a multi-multi-multi-millionaire corporation owner who isn't used to being questioned.

2. The gate is on MY land. (and the road.)

3. The right-of-way we gave him is for transit, not loitering.

4. At this time, I had been away from the state for around 15 years. I had never officially met this man.


Sooo...


As I am coming out of hunting on my land on my 4-wheeler, I stopped at the gate. Making conversation as it opened, I asked if they saw anything.

They just gave me a rundown of what they saw, and asked me the same.

I said a few does... nothing special... etc. You know... small talk.

Well, at this point he gets a REAL serious look on his face and says to me "While we are at it boy, why don't you tell me who the hell you are and what you are doing in here."

I just smiled and said my name. I pulled out my Driver's License as I did.

I then said... "Come to think of it, you are sitting and talking on MY land right now. While we are at it, why don't you tell me exactly who the hell YOU are and what you are doing on MY land."

At that point he laughed, and said my Dad told him about me and shook my hand. And he said he didn't think anyone had ever asked him who the hell he was.

We've gotten along famously since then. We BOTH appreciate the the other makes an attempt to watch out for the other's property and I am glad to have him.


You just never know...


-- John
 
I have seen deer wander onto the range at the gun club I used to shoot at, and it was a busy place.
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Yep. A couple years back, we had a young buck just out of his spots that wandered onto the 100-yard range while people were using it. The noise didn't bother him in the least, and we had to stop shooting a few times because he walked into the line of fire. Seemed like he wanted us to play with him.
 
Consider getting a topo map of the area, marking where you shoot, and marking where this guy's property is. Take that with you when you go fill in the police in so that they can see that there's no chance your bullets are impacting near him. I say that because the logical next step for him is to claim that he's in danger due to your shooting.
 
You were fine conducting yourself the way you did. In the interest of diplomacy, I think I would have asked the fellow if there was a time that you and him could agree upon for range sessions like Thursday every week or something. Ask him when deer season is and agree to steer clear at that time out of courtesy. This way, no surprises and it illustrates good intention on your part without it becoming a pissing match. Which is kinda what the guy seemed to be looking for from my standpoint.

If there was a range near my house, I'd be tickled, not upset. However, I'd probably be there all the time as a local diplomat to the shooting community, but that's just me.

jeepmor
 
Tell the guy that you are just conditioning the deer for him so that when he is hunting the deer will not run away when he fires his first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth and tenth shots at the same deer.



:cuss:
 
A number of years ago, I somehow found myself attending a talk by a sort of hippie type person who had been involved in the founding of some famous commune here in the U.S. His story was that the first year was a disaster because the deer ate all the crops the folks were trying to grow. They debated what to do, and he was candid that they considered shooting the deer or bringing in hunters to do the dirty deed, but in the end they decided that was contrary to their ethics. So they decided to strike a deal with the deer.

He *SAID* (and I can't either prove it or refute it) that around planting time the next spring, they all got togther and meditated, and sent telepathic messages to the deer that if the deer would leave the crops alone, they (the residents of the commune) would not allow hunting on their land and would provide a sanctuary during hunting season.

He *SAID* they didn't see a deer all summer, and their crop was fantastic. About a week before hunting season opened, the woods on their property suddenly filled up with deer, who stayed around until the end of the season and then went away.

I dunno. It suppose it's possible that Mr. cement factory's deer took of not because they were scared of the shooting next door, but because they (the deer) sensed when he was about to go Bambi blasting.

Makes a good theory, anyway. Try it out on him and see if his brain fries on the spot.
 
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