CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Never heard of anyone ripping the rim off a .45Colt case.
Considering a 41 mag, 44 mag, or 45 colt
- Thread starter RJR
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All are good rounds, and I like and shoot all of them, but if I could only have one it would be the .41. There are enough newly manufactured ammo out there to keep you shooting, but if you reload you will be way ahead of the game. I have not found any shortages of components for mine.
zxcvbob
Member
I think the 45's thin rim is more of a problem with double-action revolvers (and maybe lever-action rifles?) than with reloading dies. It might slip past the extractor.
millertyme
Member
I would say 44 Mag just for availability of a diversity of factory loadings as well as some straight up crazy stuff you can put together yourself. 45LC isn't so bad, but you're limited by factory loadings if you don't load your own or if you don't buy a Ruger or another that is built to handle it all. 41 Mag seems like a decent compromise if you don't like the potentially wrist snapping recoil of a 44 Mag.
22-rimfire
Member
I never really got interested in the 45LC. I used to shoot 44 mag revolvers, but when I got a 41 mag, I much preferred it to the 44. It had slightly less recoil and I seemed to be able to shoot them well. I have five 41 mag revolvers and no 44's any more. I generally do not have a problem finding ammo, but I don't shoot normally 100's of rounds of 41 mag per month either. I keep a supply on hand. But I tend to shoot 22LR a lot more than anything else.
I doubt anyone could have convinced me to buy a 41 over a 44 mag BEFORE I owned either. But once I started shooting them, I much preferred the 41 mag.
I doubt anyone could have convinced me to buy a 41 over a 44 mag BEFORE I owned either. But once I started shooting them, I much preferred the 41 mag.
Owen Sparks
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Do you reload?
If not get the .44 Magnum.
The .44 is a common "Wall Mart" caliber while the .41 is hard to find and can be expensive. The .45 Colt is loaded very light by the factories because they don't want you to blow up great-grandad's revolver and sue them. If you handload go with the .45 Colt as it can exceed the .44 Magnum by 11% in top end loads though it will shorten the life of the brass. I use StarLine brass exclusivly.
If not get the .44 Magnum.
The .44 is a common "Wall Mart" caliber while the .41 is hard to find and can be expensive. The .45 Colt is loaded very light by the factories because they don't want you to blow up great-grandad's revolver and sue them. If you handload go with the .45 Colt as it can exceed the .44 Magnum by 11% in top end loads though it will shorten the life of the brass. I use StarLine brass exclusivly.
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USSR
Member
That is a reference to balloon-head constructed .45 Colt cases, which were phased out of production in the 1950's. No problem with .45 Colt rims for the past 50+ years.
Don
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I would challenge you to prove it.
BCRider
Member
Owen Sparks said:
With a powerful powder either can be loaded to pressures that will instantly "pipe bomb" the cylinder and frame of any handgun. So case volume isn't an issue. And with the variety of bullets available you can match the loads for either.
So it comes down to which cylinder will hold the most pressure without fragging itself. Because the .44Mag is marginally smaller in diameter the chamber holes will have a little more steel around them for any given gun design compared to the same gun in .45Colt. So the nod to power would have to go to the .44Mag since they can be loaded to marginally higher pressures than can the same gun holding .45Colt.
The question from there is if there is enough area on the backside of a .45 bullet to accelerate to a higher speed even with the lower pressure than what a .44Mag bullet can achieve with the higher pressure if the bullet weights are the same.
zxcvbob
Member
Yes there is. You can load a .45 Colt to higher muzzle energies than a standard .44Mag, especially with 300+ grain bullets, but you better be careful what gun you shoot it from. Notice I said "standard .44Mag". If you start hotrodding the .44 even just a little, I bet you could take it higher than a hot-loaded .45 Colt.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
With both cartridges running at their maximum, safe potential in comparable guns (six-shot Rugers), they are VERY comparable in performance. Which standard max pressure of 32,000psi for the "Ruger only" .45Colt and 40,000psi for the .44Mag. The .45's advantage in diameter is offset by the .44's velocity and sectional density advantage. It is pure myth that the .45 handles heavier bullets better.
BCRider
Member
zxcvbob said:
Well that's why I didn't mention anything other than the chamber pressures that could be tolerated by the cylinder. Too often I've seen folks say just what you said where they compare custom Ruger only loadings in the .45Colt to some factory .44Mag load. That isn't a fair comparison. If you're going to compare Ruger only loads they need to be Ruger only for both calibers. Then the allowable chamber pressure for the .44Mag will be higher due to the extra metal as mentioned.
Looking at the Hodgon powder reload center I see that even the Ruger and Contender only loads for .45Colt only go as high as just into the 30K CUP range for pressure with most of the rest of the higher pressures being in the 28K to 29K CUP range. Meanwhile a lot of the .44Mag pressures are up in the 37K to 39K range with a couple capping out at just over 40K CUP. So that's about 25 to 27% more pressure available and seen as safe for the .44Magnum. Meanwhile the bullet surface area is only 10% bigger for the .45Colt. So the nod would have to go to the .44Mag for having more velocity coming out the end of the barrel for any equal bullet weight. And with these two calibers there's a lot of equivalent bullet weights for comparison.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I agree, although in a different way. The reason we got here is Linebaugh's destruction testing, where he found that the Ruger .45's were 80% as strong as the .44's. It is based on this assumption that we use 32,000psi as the maximum pressure for the .45Colt with a 100% safety margin, compared to the .44Mag's 40,000psi. So we can't turn around and say that the .45 performs "better" by comparing it (at 32,000psi) to the .44's updated (and hamstrung) SAAMI pressure standard of 36,000psi. In other words, if we're going to "assume" the .45's are good to 32,000psi, then we 'must' assume that the .44 is good to 40,000psi.
So if we accept Linebaugh's assertation that 1200fps is the "balance point", then the two cartridges are comparable in that they both push 355-360gr bullets to that speed. The .45 retains its slight advantage in diameter, the .44 retains its slight advantage in sectional density and velocity. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
So if we accept Linebaugh's assertation that 1200fps is the "balance point", then the two cartridges are comparable in that they both push 355-360gr bullets to that speed. The .45 retains its slight advantage in diameter, the .44 retains its slight advantage in sectional density and velocity. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
BCRider
Member
Craig, those numbers make sense. Looking at these heavier bullet options at the same site none of the loads go to either 32K or 40K in either case. But using a bit of creative extrapolation and given the velocities for the two it would appear that the .44 may still have a slight velocity advantage. But the difference would be so slight as to consider both to be "six of one and half a dozen the other" just as you're saying.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That's pretty much where I come out on the whole thing and why. The main reason why I tend to favor the .44 is because it seems to be far less afflicted with those pesky chamber dimensions. Never heard of a .44Mag that needed its throats reamed. It's a good .45 that can be fixed that way. Two of mine are oversized by several thousandths. The .44's just seem to be easier to get to shoot well.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Quote:
>Never heard of anyone ripping the rim off a .45Colt case.<
I have. Oddly enough...it was while trying to bring the case off the expander ball. It stuck solid, and I wound up heating it and twisting it off and out with a pair of channel locks.
I'm with JohnD. For my money, the .41 Magnum is the perfect revolver cartridge. The real drawback is cost and availability of ammunition. Not an issue for a reloader, and most especially for a home caster...but still a consideration if you're not into rolling your own. I have great hopes that Ruger will intorduce a New Vaquero chambered for the .41 Magnum...but I ain't gonna hold my breath. Guess I'll have to save my nickels and dimes and get Ham Bowen to cobble one up for me.
I like the .45 Colt a lot, too...but have no need whatsoever for the .44 Magnum. Good cartridge, no doubt, and I've owned several, but haven't really had a use for one in a good many years.
>Never heard of anyone ripping the rim off a .45Colt case.<
I have. Oddly enough...it was while trying to bring the case off the expander ball. It stuck solid, and I wound up heating it and twisting it off and out with a pair of channel locks.
I'm with JohnD. For my money, the .41 Magnum is the perfect revolver cartridge. The real drawback is cost and availability of ammunition. Not an issue for a reloader, and most especially for a home caster...but still a consideration if you're not into rolling your own. I have great hopes that Ruger will intorduce a New Vaquero chambered for the .41 Magnum...but I ain't gonna hold my breath. Guess I'll have to save my nickels and dimes and get Ham Bowen to cobble one up for me.
I like the .45 Colt a lot, too...but have no need whatsoever for the .44 Magnum. Good cartridge, no doubt, and I've owned several, but haven't really had a use for one in a good many years.
MCgunner
Member
I really like my .45 Colt Blackhawk, very accurate and will do anything the .44 mag will do. There's nothing wrong with the .44 or .41, for that matter. Any will get anything done I'd ever need doing in my neck of the woods. I shoot mostly 255 cast flat nose at about 950 fps in my .45, though. Only have about a box of 300 grain hot XTP stuff loaded up for hogs when I go hog hunting.
Leaky Waders
Member
Ahhh, I'm posting too late to influence the OP...but I vet the 41 mag.
I have several firearms in 45 long colt and I enjoy the caliber. Some are made to take the heavy loads and some aren't. Therefore I don't load any over spec just in case they get mixed up.
So for a magnum...I'd get the 41 mag. People who have them rave about them.
Remember - the real bullet measurements:
41 mag = .41
44 mag = .429
45 Long Colt = .452
I have several firearms in 45 long colt and I enjoy the caliber. Some are made to take the heavy loads and some aren't. Therefore I don't load any over spec just in case they get mixed up.
So for a magnum...I'd get the 41 mag. People who have them rave about them.
Remember - the real bullet measurements:
41 mag = .41
44 mag = .429
45 Long Colt = .452
TheGrimReaper
Member
Got all 3 of those calibers. The .41 Mag is my favorite out of those and the .45 Colt is 2nd. Yes, I do reload.
Cop Bob
Member
I as well own and load for all three, given the choice to chose only one, it would be the 44Mag...
Why? you can load it up, you can load it down, metallurgy in all guns chambered for it are pretty good.. it is an inherently accurate cartridge, rolling cans at 100 yards with any of my Smiths or Rugers is not hard to do at all..
I love the 41 mag, it is just a good round, will stop anything you throw it at on this continent.. only drawback, not that easy to walk into Wally World and they always have a good selection for it.. If you hand load, your good, just finding a good startup stock of brass is your only slow down, but the internet is full of deals, so that one is not really an issue..
The 45LC, now if you are gonna go the Cowboy Action route, it would be the one to go with, as stated, in modern guns, it can be hotrodded to the point where it will meet or surpass factory 44 mag energies.. it can be loaded with BP or 777 to go play dress up.
As far as full house loads in modern 45LC, ahh.. you can do it, I do it.. never had an issue, well let me take that back, I have a Ruger Blackhawk in LC that sometimes the cylinder pin will not want to hold if I am shooting the hot stuff, it is more annoyance than anything else, I need to order a new one, or actually trim it a touch so that it rides a tad deeper in the notch.. just too lazy to pull it down and do it.. But that is a DAMN HOT load that does that.. 200 gr bullet moving about 1480...
But me, I don't shoot a steady diet of full house anything in pistol... Just not all that much fun.. One of the reasons that I reload is so that I can shoot milder stuff, as well as get more performance than the shelf stuff.. . save the heavy stuff for social endeavors and hunting..
Why? you can load it up, you can load it down, metallurgy in all guns chambered for it are pretty good.. it is an inherently accurate cartridge, rolling cans at 100 yards with any of my Smiths or Rugers is not hard to do at all..
I love the 41 mag, it is just a good round, will stop anything you throw it at on this continent.. only drawback, not that easy to walk into Wally World and they always have a good selection for it.. If you hand load, your good, just finding a good startup stock of brass is your only slow down, but the internet is full of deals, so that one is not really an issue..
The 45LC, now if you are gonna go the Cowboy Action route, it would be the one to go with, as stated, in modern guns, it can be hotrodded to the point where it will meet or surpass factory 44 mag energies.. it can be loaded with BP or 777 to go play dress up.
As far as full house loads in modern 45LC, ahh.. you can do it, I do it.. never had an issue, well let me take that back, I have a Ruger Blackhawk in LC that sometimes the cylinder pin will not want to hold if I am shooting the hot stuff, it is more annoyance than anything else, I need to order a new one, or actually trim it a touch so that it rides a tad deeper in the notch.. just too lazy to pull it down and do it.. But that is a DAMN HOT load that does that.. 200 gr bullet moving about 1480...
But me, I don't shoot a steady diet of full house anything in pistol... Just not all that much fun.. One of the reasons that I reload is so that I can shoot milder stuff, as well as get more performance than the shelf stuff.. . save the heavy stuff for social endeavors and hunting..
paper load: 200grain missouri bullet works lead bullet, 6.0gn w231, cci300 primer.
hunt load: 300gn wfngc lead (cast performance), 21.0gn (work up from 20.0gn) h110, cci350 primer.
the paper load goes 760fps out of my 7 1/2" rsbh, the hunt load goes 1400fps. the hunt load requires a heavy crimp.
you made the right choice with the sbh. let us know how you like it. post some pics. have a blast! (pun intended)
murf
hunt load: 300gn wfngc lead (cast performance), 21.0gn (work up from 20.0gn) h110, cci350 primer.
the paper load goes 760fps out of my 7 1/2" rsbh, the hunt load goes 1400fps. the hunt load requires a heavy crimp.
you made the right choice with the sbh. let us know how you like it. post some pics. have a blast! (pun intended)
murf
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