Considering Purchase of Dillon 650

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toecutter

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I've been reloading for a number of years, and I'm now considering moving up to a serious progressive press. A friend of mine has a 550 which I have spent considerable amount of time on, but the 650 has a number of the features I really expect in a progressive reloader.

The question I have, how difficult is it to reconfigure the press for other calibers? With the 550, you just slip out the insert that holds the dies, and put a new one in. The 650 seems to be similar requiring the change of the shell plate. However they sell "caliber conversions" which includes the fittings for the powder funnel.

I want to reload .223, .30 carbine, .357, .44 magnum, .308, .45acp and possibly a few others. Can I use the shellplate from .308 to reload .45ACP and vice versa? will I have to buy another powder funnel plug? Is it easier to just buy the caliber conversion kits?

Thanks in advance!
 
To change out calibers on the 650 you have to change the shell plate/pins, case feeding insert, the case feed bushings and the dies. If you’re switching between rifle/pistol rounds you have to turn around the case feed actuating cam. If you’re switching between large and small primers you have to change the primer feed as appropriate. If you have the case feeder the plate may need to be changed. Half of the operations above require no tools (drop in parts). I have two 650’s one for small primer and one for large (I switch the case feeder between the two) so I never have to mess with the priming system. It may take 5 min to swap like primed calibers. Life is easier if you get the whole caliber conversion (ex 308/45 use several different parts).
 
Get one tool head and a conversion kit for each caliber. Looks like you'll need both sizes of primer feeds.

Changing calibers is kind of a pain. I don't change unless I plan on loading at least 1,000 rounds.

Don't worry though, when properly set up, you'll wonder how you went this long without one.
 
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I have the 550 and the Hornady LNL progressive. You should look at the Hornady, better bang for the buck; quicker changeover system, less expensive to change over.
 
The caliber conversion costs are the downside to the 650. $70 for a conversion kit and $25-$30 for a toolhead and powder die for each caliber gets expensive with a long list of calibers. Do you shoot a higher volume with 1-2 calibers and low volume with the others? It might be better to have a 550 (cheaper conversion parts) for the lower volume calibers and a 650 for the higher volume calibers. It all comes down to money, how much are you willing to tie up in reloading equipment? My hunch is you'd spend more on conversion parts than the press and casefeeder together.
 
Ease of operation > cost

I am looking at doing serious quantity. For the time being, the cartridges I have been reloading the most are .223 and .30 carbine. But I would also like to reload .44 mag, .357 mag, .45ACP and maybe 9mm.

It looks like I will be purchasing caliber conversion kits!

The thing is, I don't mind spending the money for quality tools. I figure it's going to cost me about $150 to add a caliber (that includes dies, powder thing, conversion kit, tool head).

And for those who asked about hornaday, yes I did check them out, however, the 650 + casefeeder will cost me about $600 vs over $700 for the hornaday unit similarly configured. While the Hornaday unit has some features I like (being able to use a standard powder measure) the cost, and inflexibility of the machine similarly loaded is a real turn-off.

I have also been considering a lee turret press to help with case preparation. I've been burned by them in the past so if anyone has any recommendations. The primary requirement here is auto-indexing, and made out of cast iron at the least.
 
You may also want to purchase a seperate priming assembly for the 650. It makes switching between small and large primers easy and fast.

If you go to brianenos.com you can order the dillon parts there and he pays for shipping on orders over $400. He can also advise on accessories that are worth the money. You'll have to pay shipping if ordering it direct from dillon.
 
The Lee Classic Turret Press is outstanding. Check the reviews at Midway or numerous posts here and in Glock Talk about it. I have one and also a Lee Load Master.

For way less than the price of a 650 I have two loaders that will handle anything. If you follow the directions, setting up a Load Master is simple, contrary to what you might have read. People who don't get it set up right seem to not want to believe the very simple directions found in the videos on the Lee website.

I can easily load over 700 rounds per hour with the Load Master right now with a bum hand--just had surgery--when I'm 100% again that will go to 800+ per hour; 2-250 rounds per hour with the Classic Turret press. Check these two links for info on the Load Master setup and my operation of it--

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=600465&perpage=25&highlight=&pagenumber=1

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=601892

I do not load rifle but there are many guys around here who do so on both presses.
 
Dillon has a conversion chart that will tell you what plate, powder funnel, locator pins, casefeed adapter, ect, that will be needed for the caliber you will be loading. They sell them as conversion kits or one part at a time, that way you don't have to double up on anything. If your going for production I would recommed getting all the safety buzzers, low powder warning, low primer warning and powder case check, maybe even a case counter. When you get up to speed you'll want to make sure you don't load the tip of your finger into a case, so the buzzers allow you to watch how the bullet is placed in the case instead of watching the levels of supplies being loaded. In keeping with the production idea you will need a casefeeder and all 4 plates, rolled handle, bullet tray, and taller mount. I would also get a few extra primer tubes, its nice not having to stop loading until you've finished 400 to 500 rounds ( keep the safety glasses on at all times ). For case prep dillon has a power case trimmer for rifle that mounts to the tool head and comes with a handy vacuum attachment. I just got mine and haven't used it much but it sure better than hand trimming.

I can load about 750 rounds an hour in 9mm
500 38spl
700 45acp
250 308 (this is a work in progress)
400 223 " "
250 30-06 " "

Another thing to watch for is how well the dillon powder system will work on any given powder


When you do searches on auction site always do a search for DILLION, I have gotten some great deals when no one else is bidding

I hope this is helpful. Ron
 
Thanks for the Brian Enos link. Since I'm looking at buying about $1200 worth of stuff, it should more than pay for itself.

Currently, I am planning on going into some pretty serious production, both for personal use, and for firearms training that I've been doing on the side recently. I figured with the amount of shooting I do, this should pay for itself within two months.

As for lee: Lee has a great price point, and I'm thinking about getting one of the lee 4-hole turret presses for handling my case prep work. (I load a lot of .223 and .308 which I am uncomfortable doing on an automatic press due to the presence of lubricant).

And yes, I think the Dillon Case Trimmer die is very much the way to go. I am trying to figure out how to integrate my case prep all into the Lee unit.

I'm thinking:

1 - lube die
2 - size die
3 - trim die
4 - ?

I still need to swage the primer pockets on some of the .223 brass, but it's kinda hard to do with less than the 1050. I ordered the primer pocket swager from C-H Tool. Maybe put that in my single stage press?

Again, thanks for all your help guys. This has really solidified my resolve to make this happen and not regret it later!
 
If you have a *standard* load for a caliber like I do:

Get a powder measure dedicated to that specific tool head/load combo. I have one tool head that never gets messed with for 357. I'm feeding over a dozen guns with this load. Shoot it on about a 2or 3 to 1 ratio over any other load. The powder measure paid for itsself in time savings within the first six months.
 
toecutter said:
As for lee: Lee has a great price point, and I'm thinking about getting one of the lee 4-hole turret presses for handling my case prep work. (I load a lot of .223 and .308 which I am uncomfortable doing on an automatic press due to the presence of lubricant).

And yes, I think the Dillon Case Trimmer die is very much the way to go. I am trying to figure out how to integrate my case prep all into the Lee unit.

I'm thinking:

1 - lube die
2 - size die
3 - trim die
4 - ?
Click to expand...

If you're intending to use the auto-index feature of the Lee for this, keep in mind that the entire turret rotates. I'm not sure putting the trimmer on that turret is going to work so well, given the vacuum hose and power cord. I'd suggest using a second toolhead on the progressive and a good spray lube. I load .308 on my Hornady progressive and just dump lubed cases into the case feeder; never had a problem due to the lube.

One thing I've never heard before is that the XL650 is cheaper than a Hornady. Usually it's the other way around. While the Hornady case feeder is more expensive than the Dillon, the Hornady press itself is significantly less expensive than the 650. Am I missing something?
 
For .223 & .308 use Dillions carbide size die and dillion case lube they both work great. Stay away from "stick" type powders like 3031 they don't work well with dillion powder measures. If you can recover your swaged cases it's not too much work; however, if your always getting once fired crimped cases you'll be much better off with a 1050.
 
So, I made something of an impulse buy today. I bought a Lee Pro 1000 (they had a few on thier surplus pages) for $82. I bought that, and a few replacement shell plates. I am figuring this press will likely not measure up to the expectations I had for the 650 for doing bulk reloading of the calibers I do. However, it should be ideal for pre-processing brass.

The bulk of the brass I get is range pickup from the range I work at. Since lately all the milsurp ammo has dried up since it's all being sent overseas most of the brass is commercial. About 80% of the brass I get is either winchester or RP (Remington) headstamped. But there is still a significant proportion which is LC or FC (some of the FC brass is crimped).

I revisited the costs involved with the different reloaders (Hornaday vs Dillon) and the costs were comparable. I am not sure as to the merits of the Hornaday (since I'm only looking at pictures). I'm not openly opposed to it.

As far as the 1050, these are way more machine than I need at this time. If I ended up going into full time production, and devoted all of my waking hours to making ammo for a living, I would probably look at this one, since it beats the 10K+ I would invest in a factory reloading setup.

For the time being, I'm stuck on the idea of the D650, or the HLNL. I think I need to take a closer look at the HLNL before I throw that much cash at this problem.

And yes, I agree, that the lee turret type presses will not work with the dillon case trimmer. From what I can tell, the Lee Pro 1000 acts as a more standard progressive press. If nothing else, I now have something I can load 9mm on without having to reconfigure the press.

Anyways guys, thanks for all your guidance regarding this matter.
 
toecutter, if you want a closer look at the Hornady, here's a page I put together after using mine for a few months. It might help you decide whether it's for you or not. Info Page
 
I still need to swage the primer pockets on some of the .223 brass, but it's kinda hard to do with less than the 1050. I ordered the primer pocket swager from C-H Tool. Maybe put that in my single stage press?
Click to expand...

I bought one a few weeks ago. I'm just starting to load .223 and the brass prep seems to the be the bottle neck in the process. I tried my buddy's Dillon swager and thought that the CH-4D setup would be easier to use. To use the Dillon you have to sort the cases by head stamp because the pin indexes off of the inside bottom of the case. Different lots/mfg's may vary the thickness of the bottom of the case. It seemed that by indexing from the rim of the case, the CH-4D would not need constant adjustment. I had bigger problems, If I tried to adjust the depth to fully swage the pocket, then the force required would damage the rim as the shell plate does not support the rim entirely.

It is easier to insert the case in the CH-4D and you could ruin cases much faster than the Dillon, but I won't be using either. Anyone want to try the CH-4D setup - cheap!

I wound up buying once-fired cases already swaged, trimmed, sized, and cleaned. It actually looks nicer than the new brass I have purchased. It certainly makes loading much simpler. The preppred once-fired stuuf is ~$70/K delivered. I figure if I can load and shoot it 3 times, and not spend so much time prepping cases, then it makes sense to me.
 
Echoing HomerSimpson's comments:

As for the dillon primer pocket swaging tool, yea this thing is difficult to use, and takes forever, and isn't always spot on, thankfully I was able to borrow one from a friend before I made the mistake of buying one. I still havn't had the chance to lament my purchase of the C&H setup.

My friend and I were trying to work out a way of either swaging or reaming them with the least amount of hassle. Last night over a few beers we came up with an idea. Have a plastic case holder (think reloading die upside-down) in a drill press, with an air-driven rod at the bottom, and then some kind of cutter/reamer/swager attachment in the drill chuck. So far this is the best thing we have come up with. So far our attempts at using airchucks, knockoffs of the dillon have met with frustration.
 
Toecutter,

What I wound up doing was chuck a 'Weldon' type countersink in my drill press. Then running it at about 400rpm, I simply hold the case in my hand and chamfer the pocket. It is pretty easy to control how much is chamfered by how hard you push on the brass. I can do 100 rounds in 5-10 minutes.

Here is what the counter sink looks like, you should be able to pick one up at Harbor Freight or local big box hardware store for $5-$7.
06j5003s2.gif
 
Good luck with your 650...like others who have posted...I have a complete quick change for each caliber...as well as a separate primer set-up.

Makes the whole deal a joy to run.

I can go fast, or kick back and "semi-turret" with a slow caliber like .357 Max.

Enjoy your new machine.

Bob

picture.gif
 
VonFatman,

Why are all your Powder measures empty? Do you empty them after evey use? Am I doing something bad leaving the powder in mine?

I am currently "building" my reloading room. Have the presses and have finished the sheetrock and ceiling, now I am building benches and shelves. I will post a pic when it is done....

Thanks!
Mark
 
You should not leave powder in a measure when youre done..it isnt sealed for one, and it is easy to forget what was in there last...return it to the keg when youre done.
 
I left powder in mine for a long time, and there was a very high output UV light and reptile aquarium in the same room.
No problems.
Label your measures, label your stands, and don't change bullet weights and you will be fine.
On a side note, some powders will yellow the plastic if left in the measures.
Just look on E-bay and see all the yellow measures for sale, and realize that most people don't empty their measures after use.
I can certainly see only one container of powder on the bench at once.
But I see nothing wrong with 5 measures with powder in them as long as they are properly labeled and you don't use more than one kind of powder in each caliber.
 
Yes, at least label the measure with some masking tape. I don't leave powder in for a long time, but if I'm gonna load more in a few days, I label it and leave it.
 
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