jcwit
member
Agreed, the cemetaries are full of innocent victims put there by a responsible drunk.
Consuming Alchohol While Carrying
- Thread starter RatDrall
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Agreed, the cemetaries are full of innocent victims put there by a responsible drunk.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
That wasn't a "crime" until recently. Now, "impairment begins at the first drink" ... or so many would like you to believe.
Should an officer have to wait until after you burn down your neighbor's house to arrest you? A lighted match is one false step from arson...
Should he have to wait until after you shoot someone to arrest you? Handling a loaded gun is one slip of the trigger from homicide...
Of course those are extremes but how much preemptive punishment will society stand for? How many folks will become felons (or commit serious misdemeanors) in our attempt to make the world a safe place and defend against what they MIGHT do?
To directly answer your question -- YES. A cop should have to wait until you have committed an actual offense against your fellow man before arresting you. But that, of course, is just my humble opinion.
Still, how many people are being killed here in PA by all those deranged drunks with their concealed guns at our bars? Remember how I said this is a feel-good solution to a non-problem?
Gryffydd
Member
That's not really a fair comparison. There's no reason they shouldn't pull you over for weaving, erratic speed, etc. At that point you've DONE something. There's no need for you to hit someone.
Maybe you can back that statement up with actual statistics on the number of deaths caused by people deemed drunks that have killed with a gun after a drink?
some establishments in PA allow it, if you are allowed to smoke is based on a percentage of income from food, if you exceed x% you are not allowed to smoke, cigar shops and private clubs are exempt too. And PA is only 3 miles away!
You mean an establishment in your state that serves alchohol now can not post a no weapons/guns cc/oc sign? they have to have a law passed in order for that type of establishment to prohibit weapons on their premisis?
maybe I didnt read that right?
congrats on 25 years sober,I was out of control drinking and stopped completely over 25 years ago.
I have not had one sip of anything alcoholic for over 25 years. The reason is, if I say yes to just one beer, I will have a second, then third, then a six-pack, and then I will be right back where I was over 25 years ago. Several shots of Jack Daniels and a six-pack of Miller EVERY NIGHT.
Had I kept that up, I probably would either be dead by now, or close to it!
Yup, I don't miss it one bit. I don't care if people at my table want a beer or drinks with their dinner, I'll stick with water, thank you!
I won't ever go into a bar again, and I shy away from restaurants where I have to sit at a table near the bar. I notice it gets louder and louder to the point where I have to scream across the table to my wife just so we can hear each other.
LOL (I can laugh about it now) LOL
Those of you who think drinking and carrying is no big issue,I have a problem with that.We are supposed to be the responsible ones.So i think drinking and carrying is irresponsible.It's no different than drinking an driving.
Don't you think the anti's have enough as it is,and now you throw this in the mix.Were in the fight of our lives to keep our gun "Right's".Don't do me any favors drinking an carrying then think it's all good,cause it's not.
Theirs a reason why dangerous tools an machinery don't mix with alcohol,people
have died.
Don't you think the anti's have enough as it is,and now you throw this in the mix.Were in the fight of our lives to keep our gun "Right's".Don't do me any favors drinking an carrying then think it's all good,cause it's not.
Theirs a reason why dangerous tools an machinery don't mix with alcohol,people
have died.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Except that's not what I said. If you recall my post, I said
You are a professional driver and have to adhere to higher standards while behind the wheel. I understand that penalties for violation of traffic laws is stiffer on you even if you are in a passenger car since you have Commercial Drivers Lic.
However we as a whole are private armed citizens, we are not all professionals carrying a firearm and as such we do not have to adhere to all of the regs and requirements of armed professionals, there are reuirements where we each live that dictate what we can and can not do but those vary by city,county, and state. Also as a CDL there is federal oversite of your trade on top of state, as armed citizens we are not regulated, licensed or documented to the extent that you are by the federal ( no fed. ccw) and some states are very lax. Not exactly a fair comparasion imho
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Yes. You didn't say that.
And I stand by my answer.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Throw WHAT into the mix, exactly? The countless deaths that ... oh yeah ... AREN'T happening as a result of this in states without such laws?
We tend to get so very uptight about what the antis think that we willingly restrict ourselves beyond all need (which is fine, if that's your thing) and attempt to apply those restrictions to others (which isn't fine).
I don't carry to "do you any favors." I simply go about my life exercising my rights as the law allows. If I'm sitting down to a nice dinner and a fine pint of ale, my right to defend myself and my family against violent attack is not abrogated in ANY way. Fortunately the Commonwealth of PA agrees with me on that.
Boba Fett
Member
I wonder why they do not allow police officers to drink while on duty?
I mean, it's only one or two or three drinks right? It couldn't possibly impair their judgment or reaction/physical ability right? Would any of us really mind if our police officers were allowed to drink while on duty?
I suppose there is the obvious legal issues of why we wouldn't want cops to drink, but those couldn't possibly apply to the rest of us right?
I'm just asking...
I mean, it's only one or two or three drinks right? It couldn't possibly impair their judgment or reaction/physical ability right? Would any of us really mind if our police officers were allowed to drink while on duty?
I suppose there is the obvious legal issues of why we wouldn't want cops to drink, but those couldn't possibly apply to the rest of us right?
I'm just asking...
I think the answers we get boil down more to what people think about alcohol than a logical discussion specifically on the issue.
When I drink at home I often have a loaded gun on me or next to me. I rarely drink out in public.
But I do have others over at the home or around me often.
I think drinking and carrying is typically fine. Drinking and handling a firearm is totally different.
People may be biased because of the type of individual drawn to many public watering holes.
But just as many people are drinking in your typical restaurant, and you don't see many macho displays in a family restaurant where wine, beer, and other alcoholic drinks are consumed in quantities similar to your typical bar or club.
Drinking does lower inhibitions which could make someone already inclined to make stupid decisions more apt to do so. Some people when they drink are exceedingly emotional and impulsive. Many others are not.
The problem of course is those who are often don't see it themselves.
I also saw some compare drinking and driving to drinking and carrying.
First of all the primary problem with driving while intoxicated is that drinking slows reaction speed and reduces coordination.
This means someone who has a moderate amount of drinks and is still capable of driving is still slower to stop when something unexpected happens. So even if they are not swerving, are in their lane and obeying all rules of the road in full control, they pose an increased risk to everyone on the road. If someone cuts them off, someone runs in the street, a hazard appears, or some other driving related but unexpected condition occurs they are far more likely to react poorly or too late.
Driving requires constant real time correction.
This means anyone who drinks and drives, even if they appear to drive perfectly fine like unfortunately many do after a night out or going out to dinner, they pose a significantly increased danger to all.
Just carrying a firearm is different. There is no constant required handling of the firearm required. There is no correction in real time required. Slower reaction time from impairment is resulting in the firearm sitting in its holster just the same.
Even actually shooting at a range while intoxicated would be very different than driving. While I am very much against operating and handling a firearm and drinking, shooting is done at the pace of the shooter. Driving reaction is done at the pace of the road. So someone becomes a much more dangerous driver from some drinks than a dangerous shooter.
The primary things that make someone impaired a dangerous driver are slowed reaction time and less coordination.
Even making the right decision when faced with an unexpected road challenge will often result in improper execution or too slow of a response while driving intoxicated.
Unless someone is really drunk those specific factors don't make much difference even handling a firearm.
On the other hand drinking does make many have less inhibition, and become more casual. Handling a firearm should never be casual, that is a safety concern.
But kept in a holster?
If the person is not impulsive they will be fine.
For those who are impulsive, drinking tends to increase that impulsiveness, and they should refrain from carrying while drinking.
But such people are typically dangerous anyways, drinking just makes that already present danger more apparent.
So it really depends on the person.
The same people prone to bursts of outrage, macho behavior, roadrage, etc when sober are even at more risk to do something even worse when intoxicated.
They should probably not carry at all, but especially when they drink.
When I drink at home I often have a loaded gun on me or next to me. I rarely drink out in public.
But I do have others over at the home or around me often.
I think drinking and carrying is typically fine. Drinking and handling a firearm is totally different.
People may be biased because of the type of individual drawn to many public watering holes.
But just as many people are drinking in your typical restaurant, and you don't see many macho displays in a family restaurant where wine, beer, and other alcoholic drinks are consumed in quantities similar to your typical bar or club.
Drinking does lower inhibitions which could make someone already inclined to make stupid decisions more apt to do so. Some people when they drink are exceedingly emotional and impulsive. Many others are not.
The problem of course is those who are often don't see it themselves.
I also saw some compare drinking and driving to drinking and carrying.
First of all the primary problem with driving while intoxicated is that drinking slows reaction speed and reduces coordination.
This means someone who has a moderate amount of drinks and is still capable of driving is still slower to stop when something unexpected happens. So even if they are not swerving, are in their lane and obeying all rules of the road in full control, they pose an increased risk to everyone on the road. If someone cuts them off, someone runs in the street, a hazard appears, or some other driving related but unexpected condition occurs they are far more likely to react poorly or too late.
Driving requires constant real time correction.
This means anyone who drinks and drives, even if they appear to drive perfectly fine like unfortunately many do after a night out or going out to dinner, they pose a significantly increased danger to all.
Just carrying a firearm is different. There is no constant required handling of the firearm required. There is no correction in real time required. Slower reaction time from impairment is resulting in the firearm sitting in its holster just the same.
Even actually shooting at a range while intoxicated would be very different than driving. While I am very much against operating and handling a firearm and drinking, shooting is done at the pace of the shooter. Driving reaction is done at the pace of the road. So someone becomes a much more dangerous driver from some drinks than a dangerous shooter.
The primary things that make someone impaired a dangerous driver are slowed reaction time and less coordination.
Even making the right decision when faced with an unexpected road challenge will often result in improper execution or too slow of a response while driving intoxicated.
Unless someone is really drunk those specific factors don't make much difference even handling a firearm.
On the other hand drinking does make many have less inhibition, and become more casual. Handling a firearm should never be casual, that is a safety concern.
But kept in a holster?
If the person is not impulsive they will be fine.
For those who are impulsive, drinking tends to increase that impulsiveness, and they should refrain from carrying while drinking.
But such people are typically dangerous anyways, drinking just makes that already present danger more apparent.
So it really depends on the person.
The same people prone to bursts of outrage, macho behavior, roadrage, etc when sober are even at more risk to do something even worse when intoxicated.
They should probably not carry at all, but especially when they drink.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
And all this is much more about folks' opinions about how life oughta be, rather than about laws and their effects upon us as gunowners.
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