Drinking Alcoholic Beverages While Armed.

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I often see and hear the phrase "Drinking and guns don't mix." I disagree. I fully support the idea that getting drunk and shooting don't mix. I don't get drunk before, or during my range sessions. I also am on board with the idea that handling firearms while drunk is a really bad idea. I don't do that. I understand that if I am involved in a shooting, my consumption of alcohol may be a factor in prosecution, or a civil suit.
I agree that it's not wise to get stupid drunk while armed.

What I really don't understand is a view that many apparently hold. That it is irresponsible and somehow wrong to merely be in the presence of alcohol while armed. That bars are somehow different from restaurants that serve alcohol, and, therefore, it's just wrong to enter a bar while armed. That it is reckless and immoral to allow one drop of an alcoholic beverage to pass the lips while armed.

I know how alcohol affects me. I don't get drunk outside of my home, or the homes of a few close friends. In fact, I don't get drunk much at all anymore. I'm 36, and drunkenness simply doesn't hold the appeal that it once did.:)
I am a responsible adult. A few drinks don't cause me to lose control of myself.

So,
Responsible adult + responsible consumption of alcohol + holstered pistol = problem how? Exactly?
 
You ordered it you got it. One large can of worms coming right up!

All I can add here is if it works for you great! it does not work for every one.

I came home more than once to an apartment where my room mate was drunk. For him drunk=paranoid. And what happened? I'm looking down the barrel of a glock just for coming home. Now he also claims
I know how alcohol affects me. I don't get drunk outside of my home, or the homes of a few close friends.
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But it was all an illusion he thought he could control himself and I guess he did as I never got shot, but another few drinks who knows what would have happened?

As far as bars go, one maybe two drinks ok but some folks just cant stop. So no I dont like it but if you are in public fine go to a bar have fun but just dont drink.
I am a responsible adult. A few drinks don't cause me to lose control of myself.
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great good for you but others are not like you.
 
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I forgot to let everyone know that in Pennsylvania, it is legal to carry in establishments that sell, and serve alcohol. Restaurants, bars, liquor stores, whatever. It is legal to drink while carrying. There is no restriction on BAC while carrying.
 
Pretty much every drunk I ever knew didn't think he or she was "out of control", even when they were ranting incoherently.

By its nature, alcohol impairs ones ability to KNOW if one's impaired.

I'm in favor of lifting Ohio's ban on concealed carry in liquor serving restaurants. I'll never be in favor of drinking while carrying a loaded firearm.
 
Alcohol causes the body to relax, lowers inhibitions, slows thought and physical response time, lose balance balance and a slew of other physical side-effects. Now like I said in a prior thread, depending on size, tolerance due to repeated drinking and how slowly alcohol is absorbed due to, say a full stomach, alcohol may take longer to affect one person than another. But it WILL still affect you in those areas. I don't believe anyone's going to condemn you for having a glass of wine at dinner while you're carrying, but if you're going to a bar %95 of the time you're going to get intoxicated. The last thing I want is for you to feel less inhibited when feeling confrontational and armed (that includes ANY weapon) AND not even have the ability to control your weapon properly due to alcohol. But hey, what do I know, I've only worked in bars and restaurants for more than half my life. People who drink NEVER do anything stupid.
 
When I used to drink, I didn't know when to say no. One drink was too much and one drink was not enough.

I haven't touched the stuff since about 1984 and I don't miss it at all. That is 25 years, alcohol free.

I know today, if I were to have one drink, it would lead to two then three, then I would be drunk again.
:banghead:

Never again!
 
The late great Johnny Cash wrote a few songs about this issue, and none of them ended well.
 
In Michigan.. if you have any.... I REPEAT ANY... measurable level of booze in your system... it is a felony to handle/carry/control/operate a firearm of any kind.
 
drinking has no place in my life, and this is one very good reason why.


saves alot of money bein sober too ya know.
 
The problem with this debate is the old saw that says "the plural of anecdote is not data." Sure, everyone knows someone who can't handle liquor or has spent time in violent cess pools trading under the name "BAR" where folks were just TOO likely to shoot someone to death if guns were present. Instead of politely being beaten, stabbed, kicked, punched, strangled, or otherwise violently terminated like a civilized bar fly. :rolleyes:

So, OBVIOUSLY "guns and alcohol don't mix!" Common sense for the masses!

The big problem is that this shallow and short-sighted philosophy totally clouds many folks' eyes (even in the hallowed halls of THR! :eek:) to the fact that this is STILL, and ALWAYS, a question of personal rights and personal responsibility.

If you drink to excess and assault or kill someone else, you are responsible for your actions. If you shot them to death, you are responsible for that act. If you beat them to death with a pool cue, or a bar stool, you are responsible for that action. If you defended yourself against attack and your response injured or killed an innocent bystander, YOU are responsible for that.

When we tell the WORLD over and over, THE GUN IS JUST A TOOL, it is embarrassing that we'd tell each other that there are some times when it's o.k. to be out of control with (or in the presence of) OTHER tools, but not guns. For shame!

-Sam
 
If you have any amount of alcohol in your bloodstream and you are indeed a responsible adult, then stay the hell away from firearms and other dangerous machinery, like cars especially.

You don't have to be drunk off your ass for it to be dangerous, your reactions and sensory processing will be impaired.

Well I feel this definitely applies to handling the machinery anyway... I'm not totally sure if carrying and handling are the same thing...
 
Just because somethings not against the law, doesn't make it a good idea

that would make a great sig line
 
I don't believe anyone's going to condemn you for having a glass of wine at dinner while you're carrying
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Oh, some do, trust me.

, but if you're going to a bar %95 of the time you're going to get intoxicated.
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No, I'm not. Why do you project such statements onto me? My reason to go to the bar are irrelevant. My ACTIONS while there (or anywhere) are how I should be judged.

The last thing I want is for you to feel less inhibited when feeling confrontational and armed (that includes ANY weapon) AND not even have the ability to control your weapon properly due to alcohol.
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At 0.1 BAC, I could still get off aimed shots if my life was threatened, and I'd still be able to make the decision whether or not to do so. To tell you the truth, between my study of the laws and the theory of defensive shooting -- and my weekly practice (and monthly competition) with my sidearm -- I'd be measurably MORE proficient with that weapon while intoxicated than a great many folks would be while sober.

I'm not lauding myself, I just accept that reality. Now, I'd obviously not do as well as if I was stone sober, but as long as I am capable of cognizant, directed action at some level, I retain my right to defend my life.

But hey, what do I know, I've only worked in bars and restaurants for more than half my life. People who drink NEVER do anything stupid.
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I appreciate your years of dedicated service, but stupid people will do stupid things. The average person who goes to the trouble, expense, and accepts the responsibility to carry a concealed firearm is highly unlikely to put himself at the kinds of risks you are suggesting.

But don't take my word for it, and don't accept your own polls of notable idiots you've tossed out of bars. Look at the statistics. In states where there are no prohibitions against carry in bars, and indeed, in states where there is NO BAC limit, WHERE are the corpses? Where is the public outcry against all this horrific violence that surely must flow when booze and guns mix?

Show me.

-Sam
 
When we tell the WORLD over and over, THE GUN IS JUST A TOOL, it is embarrassing that we'd tell each other that there are some times when it's o.k. to be out of control with (or in the presence of) OTHER tools, but not guns. For shame!
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Well put sir! and a gun is just a tool. Infact it is the easiest tool to unleash harm to others. And people being who they are will almost always go for the easier tool no matter what their condition is. After all how often do you build a fire to boil water to make coffee in your home? Never you say? Let me guess you use the electric coffee maker right? My point is people will often do what takes less effort. A gun takes less effort than the pool cue. Also a gun is one shot and its over in less than a second. Other means thak time and time is a huge factor with intoxication. After 2 or 3 swings one might think hey this isnt right. With a gun there isnt that luxuary of time to think about things.
 
In Michigan.. if you have any.... I REPEAT ANY... measurable level of booze in your system... it is a felony to handle/carry/control/operate a firearm of any kind.
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In PA, elevated BAC while carrying or shooting is not a justification (on it's own) for any legal trouble. (Hunting is an exception. Can't hunt while drunk, but we take hunting pretty seriously. :rolleyes:)

So, where's the "blood in the streets?" If the laws that Michigan has help keep folks safe, where are the news reports and statistics that show how well they're working? Or, could it be that you have a law that gives you NOTHING except a stumbling block to trip up and incarcerate folks who have committed no (other) crime? And you accept that? For heaven's sake WHY?

-Sam
 
I have several local examples.

3 in hampton Va. Herricane lounge 1993 person intoxicated in a bar decides life is not fun. Starts a fight shoots his gun 13 times hits bistander in leg severing femoral artery dies in parking lot.

Rooneys 1995 DEA agent picks fight with 18 year old. Gun fight erupts 18 year old dies from gun shot wound. DEA guy goes to jail bac IIRC .11. Witness said kid was minding own business and DEA guy was beligerent.

Clydes 1982 Drunk asks man to talk a little quieter at bar guy was not being loud according to witnesses. Drunk produces gun shoots guy in face walsk over to dying man and says I guess you will be real quiet in a minute and proceeds to empty gun into person.

I assure you it does happen enough.

As for you maybe you are the 5 percent that goes and gets a beer and leaves.
 
Well put sir! and a gun is just a tool. Infact it is the easiest tool to unleash harm to others. And people being who they are will almost always go for the easier tool no matter what their condition is. After all how often do you build a fire to boil water to make coffee in your home? Never you say? Let me guess you use the electric coffee maker right? My point is people will often do what takes less effort. A gun takes less effort than the pool cue. Also a gun is one shot and its over in less than a second. Other means thak time and time is a huge factor with intoxication. After 2 or 3 swings one might think hey this isnt right. With a gun there isnt that luxuary of time to think about things.
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You're giving a LOT of credit to the guy with enough bloodlust worked up to be bashing another human's head in with a pool cue. "Hey...WHACK!...wait...CRACK!...this ain't right...SPLUCK!... I really aught to stop...THUD!"

But let's turn the tables. You go out to have a beer and a burger. This idiot gets the idea that you were lookin' his 'ol lady and he's going to END you!

But you're legally disarmed! Well, you're dead...but you're sooooo legal.

I believe we call that cold comfort.

I don't go out to drink to excess. I don't treat people poorly or act with aggression. I don't frequent places that I know are magnets for violence. BUT, I DON'T agree to give up my right to defend my life or those of my family simply because I had a beer or two. (Or more, really. Though I don't do so.)

How could this be acceptable to any of us? My right (and yours), my responsibility (and yours).

-Sam
 
If you have any amount of alcohol in your bloodstream and you are indeed a responsible adult, then stay the hell away from firearms and other dangerous machinery, like cars especially.
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...say the organizations and businesses that make their money from demonizing alcohol...

If I have a glass of wine with dinner, I am WAY legal to drive home. And it's not a bad idea to do it, either.

Texting on the way is a terrible idea. Going out to a bar to have a few gin and tonics, and planning to drive home, is a terrible idea. Doing it with a gun on you is a terrible idea.

Believing that a leisurely glass of Meritage, or two, with a good steak, then driving home an hour or two later, is equivalent to any of that, in any way, is nothing short of childish.

The world seems full of people who either:

1. Have certain psychiatric deficiencies and can't accept that others do not. If you can't have a drink without having 10, then don't drink. More power to you. But don't tell other people that we're just like you, because we are not. We've all got our problems, but they're not all the same.

2. Don't trust that other people can make adult choices, so they lie about alcohol (e.g. ANY amount of alcohol makes you dangerous). Some of us really do have one drink with dinner. Gastronomy =/= alcoholism.

Seriously, can anyone differentiate between going to a bar to get hammered with a bunch of criminals, and having a beverage with alcohol in it? Okay, Sam1911 can.

WRT drunken roommates with Glocks, I did not keep a loaded gun around, or an unloaded gun where anyone could get to it, when I had roommates coming and going. It was a choice I made because the probability of shooting an innocent was infinitely greater than the probability of having to shoot an intruder. As much as I'm rabidly pro-gun, and I've had guns since I was 13, I know that loaded guns are dangerous in the wrong contexts.

Same goes for alcohol. I don't think drunkenness and firearms are a good match, so, while I seldom have more than two drinks at a sitting, I won't be armed if I do. I don't drink in a situation where I am not relatively safe, anyway, armed or no. I also don't hang out with criminals when I want to relax.

If you can't tell the difference between an alcoholic beverage and getting wasted, that's your problem. I know some people who don't drink because they know they don't stop. That's fine. The same people keep beer around to serve to house guests, and it's no problem for them.

The MADD propaganda, and the nanny-state attitudes towards other adults, are what bother me. I didn't make it this far to be treated like I am 12 by either the government nor by people around me.
 
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I think we need another revised post of Capt Charlie's sig line.


Quote:
TFL THR Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners.
What kind of ambassador does your post make you?
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Hopefully the kind of ambassador who believes in, and stands up for, the personal rights of themselves and others.

Bars are not just convenient locales for individuals to seek chemically-induced stupor. Sometimes, on occasion, it has been known to happen for people to go drinking socially in the company of friends and family. Drinking is not the same as drunkenness, as the mere existence of a BAC limit logically proves.

Do criminals only target completely sober individuals without a trace of alcohol in their bloodstream?

Do they not, in fact, specifically try to assault those who are perceived as being in a vulnerable state?
 
Sam1911 As a home brewer I can understand your point of view. Surly you must see the other side of the fence. If drunk drivers kill and drunks are more likely to get in a fight as oposed to sober folks, their judgement is off and the use of a gun for some is bound to happen. Right wrong or indiffrent Laws were made for this reason. Best example I can give is the movie Tomb Stone when the sherrif gets shot by curly bill. Bill didnt mean it but it happened he couldnt tell you why he shot he just did.

Also I do frequent a bar or two I do not drink in them when armed. I tend to drink at home my beer is better than theirs........I have awards to prove it.lol!

Again you make good points. Your rights should be carried out. But at what point does you right to be armed and drink interfear with my safety?
 
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Well put sir! and a gun is just a tool. Infact it is the easiest tool to unleash harm to others.
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I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the real, hard statistics still show automobiles as being the number one causes of death; especially with regards to alcohol.
 
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