Contact range to 500 yards... 550 dollars

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by C-grunt, Mar 23, 2021.

  1. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,300
    Location:
    Phoenix Az
    My M16A4 clone build.

    FN M16 contract barrel
    Milspec upper (cant remember the manufacturer)
    Colt carry handle
    KAC RAS rail
    PSA lower
    550 dollars total investment

    49605985466_281746fec5_o.jpg 20200301_114626 by chase, on Flickr

    49606421042_4d1363effd_o.jpg 20200301_140035 by chase, on Flickr
     
  2. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,300
    Location:
    Phoenix Az
    This one has gone out to 700, but it cost a bit more overall.

    Colt 6920
    KAC RAS rail
    Stiener P4Xi scope

    49605479763_fd02384c5d_o.jpg 20200301_114618 by chase, on Flickr

    49605661618_46fdbe03ba_o.jpg 20200301_140051 by chase, on Flickr
     
  3. LNK

    LNK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    685
    Location:
    E TN
    Good job. I miss the days when my eyes would allow me to shoot that well with irons. 4 moa allows hits on a 20" target at 500
     
    LoonWulf likes this.
  4. d2wing

    d2wing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,521
    Very cool. Del-Ton has rifle kits now for $450. The last one I had was sub-moa. I would need to add a scope though. I think I have a bare lower someplace. I would like to know where you got your barrel in case I need to upgrade.
     
  5. Orcon

    Orcon Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    962
    Location:
    Sidney, MT
    What was the target distance for these groups?
     
  6. barnett

    barnett Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    165
    Location:
    plano texas
    500 yds. As per title of the thread
     
  7. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    27,990
    per title, it could also have been contact distance
     
    Barbaroja, Mosin Bubba and Orcon like this.
  8. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,167
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    Those weren't 500 yard groups, more like 50 yards.

    Still respectable :cool:
     
    Casefull, Tortuga and BreechFace like this.
  9. AK103K

    AK103K member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,610
    They look like your average AR 100 yard groups to me.
     
    earplug and BreechFace like this.
  10. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,167
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    Top group is 1.49" ( 2.84 MOA )

    3 MOA @ 50 yards is 1.5"
     
  11. JCooperfan1911

    JCooperfan1911 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2020
    Messages:
    1,031
    The group size information is not making any sense whatsoever to me.
     
  12. AK103K

    AK103K member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,610
    Im pretty sure most GI 5.56 is loaded to a spec of around 2 moa. At least that's what I usually get on the "worst end" from prone with GI ammo at 100 yards. 2" +/-. Usually a little better than that though.

    Depending on the gun and with reloads it likes, it can be bug holes.

    And both of those results can be from the same gun, at the same time, with a simple mag/ammo change.

    ETA: This is from my copy of the Lake City load manual. Its a a tad dated, 1969, but still gives an idea. I doubt it changed a whole lot.

    enhance.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  13. BreechFace

    BreechFace Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,420
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  14. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    2,899
    Location:
    Lee of Death Valley, ...where Tigers feed.
    Nice.

    ~ what my 580 Series Mini-14 will do w/ the same ammo.

    Great story behind that carbine.


    Really just a paper-puncher at 500, though.




    GR
     
  15. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    2,899
    Location:
    Lee of Death Valley, ...where Tigers feed.
    Although...

    At 500 yds?

    It's still better than a .22 LR from a carbine point blank.

    So there's that.

    (if you can dope the wind)




    GR
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
    Casefull likes this.
  16. AK103K

    AK103K member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,610
    Its good that Ruger addressed the accuracy problems that the older Minis had, but Ive never understood that if they were going to try and miniaturize the M14, why they didn't copy the M14's sights and a couple of other things too. Their sights have always been crap.

    Back in the 80's there was a company who made an aftermarket M14 rear sight copy for the Mini's, and they seemed to be well made and pretty nice. Never got to shoot one, but the one I saw, worked just like the M14's, with repeatable "clicks" that could be quickly and easily adjusted. Would have been just that easy for Ruger, but......

    I had three of the 180 series Minis back in the 70's and 80's, and none of them would shoot as well as my Colt SP1 I have, and had when I had them. Took me three Minis to figure out I didn't just get a bad gun. :)

    My buddy has a couple of the NRA 16" 580 guns, and they shoot much better than the 180's, and I was somewhat impressed, but I still think the box stock AR's will likely outshoot them in a true shoot-out. Once you start to build guns looking for more precision, there's no comparison.

    Sights again are a big issue, and Ruger still comes up short there. And like the M14's, optics are still kind of an issue, although at least they tried with the later guns to address it.


    As far as paper punching at 500, they all do punch holes, and Ive yet to see anyone volunteer to stand on top of the 500 yard butts and show us how poor the 5.56's are at shooting live things at that distance.
     
    GooseGestapo likes this.
  17. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,300
    Location:
    Phoenix Az
    Wow, okay a couple things.

    1. The title of the thread was a bit tongue in cheek reference the closed down M1 Garand thread.

    2. Those targets were shot at 50 yards. Those pics have been used in a previous post regarding AR accuracy.

    3. The target data clearly shows the group size in inches and MOA. Pretty clear that a 1.5 inch 3 MOA group is not a 500 yard group.

    4. 5.56 will still punch a hole completely through you at 500 yards.
     
    ECVMatt, Orcon, LoonWulf and 5 others like this.
  18. Tortuga

    Tortuga member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2020
    Messages:
    189
    I really appreciate the pic but, unless I'm missing something, 2 MOA seems like kind of a wide shot group for an AR from the prone. I'm under the impression that even budget ARs give better performance (although I do acknowledge you said slightly better).



    Did they ever really address it though? Even the newer ones are still 3 MOA weapons basically (unless they used to be even worse and I didn't realize it).

    Also I agree 100% with your last sentence.



    Lol I liked that thread. I'm still thinking about buying an M1 Garand after that thread.
     
    d2wing likes this.
  19. AK103K

    AK103K member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,610
    2 moa is the max allowable spec. Doesnt mean you wont see better, and you often do.

    Realistically though, youre always at the mercy of the ammo and what it will do. Doesnt matter what your gun can do. My one AR will shoot bug holes with ammo it likes, and the next mag with GI in it, wont do better than 2".
     
    Tortuga likes this.
  20. derek45

    derek45 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    348
    Nice build.

    anyone who can read and do 3rd grade match can figure out he's showing 50yrd groups LOL

    77gr works well at 500, but larger calibers, like 6.5G, 6.8SPC, and the beloved Garand will CLANG steel louder though

    :)

    oWM4jy8.jpg
     
    BreechFace likes this.
  21. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,300
    Location:
    Phoenix Az

    Oh I definitely know that bigger bullets sound better on steel than 5.56. The top rifle becomes hard to hear hits past about 800 yards unless it's a calm day. The bottom rifle (6.5 Creedmoor shooting 140 ELDMs at 2750) lets you know you hit the target. Though out past 1300 yards it can be a bit quiet.

    I like the wood on that Garand. Looks a lot better than mine.

    50539456772_66678fe7b5_o.jpg 20200929_141859 by chase, on Flickr

    50225698961_cdf68f08c3_o.jpg M1 by chase, on Flickr
     
    BreechFace and Tortuga like this.
  22. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,300
    Location:
    Phoenix Az
    2 MOA is about all you can really expect from a run of the mil non free floated AR shooting 55 grain bulk ammo. I believe the ammo used for those groups were American Eagle, but Id have to find the original thread.
     
    Tortuga likes this.
  23. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,300
    Location:
    Phoenix Az
  24. AK103K

    AK103K member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,610
    Most of my stock AR's seem to want to shoot pretty well, and about as mentioned above, 2" or so from prone at 100 yards with GI or run of the mill reloads that approximate them.


    This was shot with my generic reloads 55 gr. Hornady BTFMJ's over 748 running around 2700 fps, at 100 yards, off a rest zeroing the gun. Sight was a 4moa Aimpoint. The badge on the hat is about 1"x 1.5".

    enhance.jpg

    One of the two here with a red dot mounted was the gun, I just don't remember which one. Not that it really matters, as they all seem to shoot about the same. All 10.5" PSA builds.

    enhance.jpg



    I shot this at 100 yards, prone from a bipod with my reloads, 55 grain Nosler BT's over 4895 at 3000 fps.

    enhance.jpg


    This is the gun, an Armalite M15A4T 16" SS barrel FF handguard.

    enhance.jpg
     
    BreechFace, Tortuga and Orcon like this.
  25. PapaG

    PapaG Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    4,605
    Location:
    Il
    My meter is slowly creeping to the £BS® range.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice