Converting a 1911 to 10mm?

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10mm Mike

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What's involved in converting a commander sized 1911 to 10mm?

Is it alot of work and a real PITA or is it as simple as getting a new barrel and mags?

Can all of the work be done by an average joe or would it have to be taken to a gunsmith?

The 1911 in question is a Sig Compact Stainless if it helps.

I know that I can buy a Dan Wesson for a really nice 10mm Commander out of the box, and I do plan on buying one later this year or early next, but I want to know what all is involved in converting one... if thats even possible.

Thanks.
 
It would indeed be a pita. You would need a different slide, barrel, and ejector.

If it is an unramped frame, it is cut at a significantly different angle.

Economically, it would be simpler to trade.

Also, note that not even Colt ever made a Commander in 10mm. I know that others have successfully done so, but it is a more appropriate cartridge for a full size gun.

I change from .38 Super to 9x19 and 9x23, and have rebarreled a 10mm to .40S&W and 357 SIG. I would not try to convert a .45 to 10mm. I doubt that most gun smiths would want to tackle it either. If they did, it would be expensive.
 
Really not that big of a deal. Something easily done by any competent gunsmith. Only thing is you'd have to purchase an entire top end. You'd need a new slide in .40/10mm as well as a new barrel. Then the parts if they don't fit correctly to begin with would have to be fitted to each other and your frame.

Also Dan Wesson made a CCO sized 10mm at one time. You might be able to find one of those.
 
No, SAAMI max is slightly higher for 10mm than it is for .40S&W. The 357 SIG SAAMI max is actually higher than that for the 10mm. No problem though, as the brass cartridge case is the weak link, and all of the 357 SIG brass I have seen is very strong.

9x23mm Winchester pressures are the highest. It is an orphan, and I don't believe that any maximum pressures are listed.

Colt at one time sold pistols with both 10mm and .40S&W barrels.
 
I'm not a gunsmith but I would think that the conversion possible but I would think that the conversion would would beat it self to death. I had a Delta Elite and had to replace the recoil springs with a 24 lb single spring from Wolff. I'd like to look at a Dan Wesson to see if they beefed up sections of the frame to take the pounding of the higher pressure round.
 
I use a small radius EGW firing pin stop, a 25# mainspring, and a -20# recoil spring in my Delta Elite. This helps greatly to tame the slide velocity. I would definitely recommend the first 2 changes to any one wanting to shoot a 10mm Commander. Not sure what recoil spring would be best for a Commander length 10mm, but I usually prefer undersprung to oversprung.

As far as the frame rails go, Colt did not beef them up on the Delta Elite, they actually just cut through the spot where the cracks usually occurred. No reason that you could not do this at home.

The new Delta Elites are supposed to come with bull barrels. I would definitely consider this for a 10mm Commander, even though I don't normally like bull barrels. It is an easy way to add weight to help tame the slide velocity.

You still have the problem of the feed ramp. Unless you are using a ramped barrel, you are actually going to have to weld up the feed ramp, and then recut it to the proper angle. To me, this is what kills the project. Of course, with a ramped barrel, (I tend to think of ramped barrels in the same light as I do bull barrrels), this would not be a problem.
 
Dan Wesson makes and they are hot sellers a couple of 10 mm 1911 models, two in full size 1911 and one bobtail comander. The report is they beefed up the frames for the 10mm and have not had problems. If you use a standard from and get too lite a recoil spring you will destory the frame rather quickly.

I had wanted a CBOB but the slaming of the slide has gotten too rough on my arthritic hands and instead went to a FNH Five Seven (5.7x28) automatic and so far hands are not hurting from shooting the gun. Hard to believe the plastic wonder cost about the same as the Dan Wesson.
 
Dan Wesson 10mm's

Top one is a Razorback. They are a current production model.. DW sells a couple of other versions.. Commander sized.

Bottom gun is a DW custom one of a kind with a Commander slide on an Officer Model frame in Razorback configuration.

They are strong guns.

View attachment 378507
 
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Yeah, problem is the 1911s sold by major manufactueres look like a 1911 so shooters think oh I'll just convert my 1911 to 10MM Auto. Wll, those 10MM Autos that look like a 1911 are a 1911 based design platform for a much
higher prressure cartridge. It's not cost effective.

I think the Dan Wesson 10MM AUtos are named RazorBacks. FWIW.

WOrd is COlt will have a re-issue of new build Delta Elites with a
release date come November.

I would hope if anyone considered a Colt COmmander conversion to
10MM Auto (stuffing the price and risk ) it's a steel frame and not Alloy.
but it's somebody else's dime.

ALternatives:

.400 CorBon - IS a barrel swap with the same magazines, and perhaps
up the recoil spring up to 20 lbs. I have a Bar-Sto Bbl. for a full size
1911 in .400 CorBon. It's built for a Colt - problem is I have a S&W 1911
and swapping the barrel links doesn't work for a fit, and my gunny knows his
limitations, - He doesn't and I don't want him to use my barrel and SW1911
as a learning experience. So I shelved the barrel, and will get a new issue 70
Series Colt for the project.

.400 COrBon closely dupicates 10MM Auto upt to 155 gr. / 165 gr. bullet weight then the 10MM AUto with higher pressure and straight
case leave the .400 CB in the dust. FYI - SAAMI rated .400 CorBon
at 23,000 pSI same as .45 ACP +P some 2+ years ago. I was told this by
CorBOn

One other thing, the barrel/slide lugs are different in a Commander at least from COlt, which is why you can't use a barrel for a full size in a
Commander - they're different . The COmmander was originally built for
9x19 when S&W intro'd the 39 and speculation was the Military was looking
in the 50s at a 9MMx19 platform which didn't pan out, so they both became
civilian market guns.

Oh, one of the best 10MM Auto Platforms?

S&W 610 N-Frame also shoots .40 S&W w/same full moon clips.

Well you asked. right?

Randall
 
Fusion Firearms, owned by Bob Serva who got the 10mm going at Dan Wesson, builds Commander 10mm's, I think.

Iggy has posted a pic of his CCO, 1 of only 3 made by the aforementioned Mr. Serva & Dan Wesson, if i'm not mistaken.

I had a CCO built for me by Robert Krone (rkgunsmithing.com) with a Caspian frame and a Fusion slide, and I could not be happier.

As far as converting a Commander to 10mm, if anyone built .40 S&W Commanders, it should only require re-chambering and some maybe some tweaking of the springs.

Sam
 
grendelbane got it right--

the primary problems are the ejector and the ramped / standard barrel issues on the frame machining.

A .45ACP ejector is not tall enough to work properly, and the proper design (after the early work) for 10mm in 1911s has been to use a ramped barrel.

If you like the 10mm cartridge, arguably the best factory platform for it was the S&W1006--which is no longer made. I had one; lightly tuned up, it shot well and liked heavier loads. I liked mine--but I like 1911 ergonomics more.

The first successful 1911 10mm was arguably the SA with the Peters-Stahl top end, but that has non-standard frame cuts and some arcane parts--but it is very accurate.

Currently, in addition to the Kimber Stainless Target II in 10mm, there are the Dan Wesson models mentioned earlier. Last I looked, the Kimber ran nearly $1000 now, and the Dan Wessons are fairly close behind.

If you want the convenience of easy switch top caliber conversions (or, within limits, even just a simple barrel switchout, as in 10mm for .40 S&W) and 1911-type ergonomics, then the EAA steel-framed guns are the ones to use.

I bought the Kimber about fourteen months ago, and I got a EAA 10mm Elite Match last January. Here's a link to a review of the EAA, comments on the Kimber, and some comments on the EAA .22LR switch top package as well.

Jim H.
 
Thanks for the info guys!

And extra thanks to BlindJustice for the .400 Corbon alternative

*editted to ask: Does anyone know anything about the 45->10mm conversion barrel from Storm Lake?
 
The Tanfoglio guns sold by importer EAA are fine guns, but the importer EAA is a real PIA and will make life hard for you if you need service or warranty work. Been there and done that, never again.

Here is the "OTHER 10mm PLATFORM"

610-305.gif
 
Wilson Combat lists many of there models in 10mm as well. SVI will build their guns up as a 10mm. Fusion Arms and Dan Wesson have been mentioned. Colt has announced the return of the Delta Elite.

I have read that Ed Brown Custom will build in 10mm on request. I would imagine this is true for many of the true custom shops.
 
SAAMI is a recognize standard: NOT a perfect GOD

Perfection comes from HANDLOADING and carefully kept records. Every load is a learning experience: good or wow. Your rifle; your eyes; your knowledge; your experience; all mean something special. Ambient Temperatures MUST become your guide! If in doubt, BACK-OFF! Your eyes are your most valuable asset, so savor their clarity. I, like many, do not see like a coyote or an eagle. I have had recent cataract surgery that approaches the eyesight of a super-human, so I don't wish to lose that due to any type of over-loaded ammo. Ask your ammunition manufacturer, what ambient temperature their loads were designed for! If it was 100 degrees Fahenheit, you'll be super-safe at 80 degrees. However, if you shoot at 40 degrees or below, their's will be relatively anemic. I handload for ambient temperature, so my velocity rarely varies. It's a fine line of pressure safety for superior loads, not worth pursuing unless totally dedicated to reloading for total performance. cliffy
 
In short...
IMHO don't convert your 1911 to 10mm. The pressures will create problems in the future.
And I think God may have words with you after.

Dutch1911
 
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