Cops: Us vs. Them?

[Chuck Dye]

Another pairing to consider

Us: those who take LEO’s, or anyone else, as they find them, one at a time.

Them: those (insert suitably scathing adjectives here) so-and-so’s who cannot see the trees for the forest.

I doubt anyone here has the sample size to justify the use of the terms "they" and "them," much less "all" when writing of LEO's or any profession.

 

[Daniel T]

You would have us believe, no doubt, that the majority of violence in society is perpetrated by law enforcement officers and thus they should be watch more closely than everyone else?

Er, no. I never said that, nor did I ever come close to saying that. Cops, however, get a pass where one of us lowly citizens would be prosecuted and tossed in jail.

Your hyperbole aside, I believe it would be difficult to find any jurisdiction that would shrug off a LEO shooting/killing as justified because an officer had "a bad day".

Then you are sadly naive or in denial.

Killing someone in the back of your cruiser because you pulled your pistol instead of a Taser certainly sounds like a bad day, doesn't it? Shrug.

Shooting a drunk in the back because he was walking away from you sounds like a bad day. Shrug.

Cutting off the end of someone's finger when trying to cuff them sounds like a bad day. Shrug.

These are just some recent examples that spring to mind. There are lots more, just do a search of this board. But hey, I'm sure you have excuses for them all.

Now, before you can try to put more words in my mouth or make other unwarranted conclusions about me, I don't hate cops. My feelings closely mirror what fix had outlined in some excellent posts.

 

[kbr80]

Todays LEO have more training, including psychological testing, than ever before.

If thats true. Why so many bad apples? Like the task force cop in texas. How could you miss that with testing?

 

[Blue Line]

"The Thin Blue Line"

My turn.

Wasn't it cops down there that ended up arresting the "bad" deputy, Yes.

Some of my thoughts on this subject are:

LEO's (city/county/state/federal) when you come in contact with US something bad has happened or will happen. We're not like fireman or paramedics there to bandaid your bo-bo. People love it when the firetruck shows up. When we show up to break up you and your wife or hairy legged teenage son from fighting after you call. Someone ain't going to like it. Then the one who called for help jumps on us as well!! You can't have it both ways. We have to socialoligists and psycoligist as well as mind readers sometimes. Not to mention lawyers. We'll have to make a decison in two seconds or less that will take a court YEARS to decide if we acted properly. We generally get to see society at its worst. Just look at what happened in Fresno yesterday. Would you go in to carry out a dead toddler. Then go home to your own family and not be bothered. I doubt it. Part of that is just being male, I'm sure not too many others here relate all the details of there day to your spouse. Just the highlights/goodstuff.

Cops hang out together just like Doctors, lawyers, teachers, shooters etc do. Because we understand and speak the same lingo. You can talk to each other about funny stories or unload with the bad.

Sometimes out there we see it exactly like US vs. Them because we are all alone out there. We are "The Thin Blue Line " that seperates the normal good people such as yourselves and the Dregs of Society that mean do do you and your family harm. Even the ones we try to help call and give is he$$ because so and so didn't get arrested yet. We crime shows on TV are solved a lot faster than on the street. Those guys do a lot in an hour. And I especially love the ones where the Prosecutors interview wittness/victims out side of the office. Get real.

I'm also try not to be the police man in my neighborhood although once the neighbors know who you are they all have a problem or know of some crime going on. I'll be the first to rush in if it turns to shi$t but I not the chairman of the local crime watch. I was asked to be the head of our neighborhood. I thought to myself thats what I need bad guys all day and now all night at home too. I'm more than willing to help out with ideas or speeches etc although. I don't wear police shirts or hats in my off time, one for security - someone follow you home/know where you live kinda thing and so people aren't put off by my job. You know "to know me is to love me kinda thing" Then when they find out what my line of work is thier surprised.

I'll make no excuses for bad cops or bad humans in general. There out there. I'll be the first to try and rectify a situation(thats our job sometimes). I try and treat someone the same as they treat me.

Yes, I'll go shoot with you sometime if your down this way. We all here have at least this board and firearms in common. That is the first bridge to getting to know each other, something in common.

I'm sorry I'm not as good a writer as the others that have proceeded me on both sides of the aisle, just sort of ran off at the keyboard.

 

[aryfrosty]

"US" vs "THEM"??

I will feel free to jump into this one even though I retired in 1995. I was a cop for 25 years. I have dealt with just about every type of person in the world...four or five times each.
There are good and bad people in every walk of life. We have no edge on good guys any more than civilians do. But I would like to suggest that the civilians walk a few miles in a cop's shoes and be cursed and glared at for no reason whatsoever...it can taint the way you look at civilians pretty badly. You folks seem to think that a cop has to be superhuman and "all-forgiving". Won't fly, guys. You seem to want to point out that "cops are no better than you, and yet you think that if you have a bad experience with a cop you are granted the right to glare at all the cops you meet from then on and mutter under your breath when they say hi to you. That "bad experience" with YOU has just tainted the way a cop approaches the next civilian.
We, ( I did for a long time), get up and shower...get dressed and go to work. Just like you. Some days we have good encounters...often we have bad ones.
And you know, when we have bad experiences on the job they are usually horrible. Call it grandstanding if you want to... I don't mind. I know most of you guys are good perople who will never have to pick up the body of an innocent person...baby, adult, elder person, we get/got them all. Most of you will never deal with a person who wants to die, who begs God to let them die, because their partner of decades, or days, has just been taken from their life. What do you say to them? There are few courses in the academy or in recerts that cover anguish. How do you offer hope to a person who walks through your patrol area at 0300 eating their main daily meal from whatever garbage can they can find full?
My first question of homeless people...(just before I turned into a "cop" and told them to move on down the road),,,was: How long has it been since you have eaten? Some of you good guys would be literally amazed at the answers I've heard. My ex-wife used to light into me every week because I had given money she wanted to spend to someone I would never see again and who would buy booze the first chance they got. So if the "arches" was open I'd feed them...if not I'd give them what I could and point them out of town. You see, our county had no services in place to help homeless or indigent people.
Cops don't have to go see "The Passion of the Christ" to see the face of God. Guys, we see it on the people we find on the streets at strange hours and doing unusual things.
But then, I would get out on the parkway or the interstate and find some good person 10-15 over the limit and do a traffic stop and issue a hard copy. And you could almost predict the responses. Don't you "cops" have anything better to do than harass working folks?
I understand that none of this justifies any cop being ugly to a citizen. I'm not trying to justify it. I'm trying to explain a part of it to you.
Now that I'm retired I have a 9-5 job. My 25 years gave me a very small retirement. Certainly not enough to live on ...especially when you have to retire at 25 years because you now have an enlarged heart and chronic atrial fibrillation. I sit at a desk and I go home and relax. It's nice.
Matter of fact it's so nice that I wonder why I didn't do this years ago and then I could have missed being called ugly things and having my kids harassed at school because I'd put some of their buddie's daddys and mamas in jail.

You guys who are still on the job. Here's my suggestion!
Can it. Get a real job. Let all these good people do their own police work and snap at each other instead of us.
I know you won't/can't. If my heart had held out I would still be right out there with you.
But I will be the person you stop who turns on the interior light so that you don't have to literally fear for your life when you walk up to an "unknown". I'll put both hands on the wheel and won't go diving under the seat to see if I can "scare the hell out of the cop", like some folks have done to me. I'll announce to you that I have a gun in my pocket...and a permit in the other pocket. I won't tell you, "no, officer, I don't have a gun!" and then let you find it by accident. I won't "demand" to know just why the heck you stopped me. I will tell you I am a retired police captain...but I will NOT tell you until you have had the opportunity to decide for yourself whether or not I need a citation.
See, I'm a good person too. But I actually understand that being such does not stamp "don't stop, touch, harass, annoy, or bother me" on my back. If I have a brain cramp and run through a stop sign or stale yellow I can be dealt with just like everyone else.
Maybe all the cops should make a pact to just stop and worry other cops and retired cops...leave the "good guys" alone? :banghead:

 

[spartacus2002]

I have met cops who care, who were the paragon of professionalism, who were extremely courteous, and who earned my respect from the first moment they greeted me (and asked for my license and registration ) In fact, about 75-80% of the ones I have met as a citizen have been like that.

I have met and seen a few who wear dark blue BDUs with tactical boots and have buzzcuts -- and were NOT SWAT. They just thought that badge made them a cross between a Ninja and Godalmighty. And they had the attitude of a Drill Sergeant.

The latter cop is unacceptable in a free society. We've had the buzzcut discussion on this board before; a buzzcut does not a JBT make. But the police are not a pacification force occupying America to keep us all from committing crime. Some cops understand this, some don't.

I would ask the members of the thin blue line to police themselves. Some already do this. Some give fellow cops a pass; we've all heard the apocryphal stories about cops pulling over drunk drivers, finding out it's a brother cop, and getting them another ride home instead of busting them. Well, that happened here in Tidewater VA, where a sherriff got pulled over for DUI and got let off -- until the press found out.

Not all cops do that, but those who do are WRONG WRONG WRONG. Tell them that they should hold their fellow officers to a higher standard, not cover their mess up.

You are part of us, and we respect you as long as you also believe you are part of us. We want you to come get the cat out of the tree or come see the vandalism the neighborhood kids did to our fence. We don't want you asking to search our car for drugs or guns when you've pulled us over for going 70 in a 65mph zone and have no probable cause, and we don't want you kicking in our door at 3am looking for drugs from a tip by a snitch trying to buy time off his sentence.

Just respect us as one of you too. We are all members of society together, and one day you may need our help too. I stopped to help a cop change a flat tire on his cruiser on the interstate once. I won't help a cop secure a perimeter around a house where a guy is growing 10 marijuana plants in his closet with Gro-lights for his personal use.

 

[The_Antibubba]

Fastbolt

Your post has a lot of good things to say, and, FWIW, I agree with most of it. I have known a lot of police officers that I like. I've known a few where I respected the uniform, but not the person inside. Yes, there are many people (a few of them here) who have nothing but contempt for authority.

The problem I have is not with authority, it is with the authoritarian. Too many LEOs have the "Judge Dredd" attitude-*I AM THE LAW*-and that makes me very uncomfortable. Yes, this is unpleasant when it is perpetrated by non-cops. But very few of those others can do so much to affect my fate. If my doctor is patronizing, I can go to another doctor. But a police officer can do any number of unpleasant things to me if he or she chooses, and my word will have less weight in the argument than his. I can't simply choose to just deal with Officer Friendly when Officer Dredd is in my face and having a bad day.

I'm glad you know yourself to be a civilian, but not all of your fellow officers are aware of this. And as they say. "One bad apple...".

 

[confed sailor]

well round here cops come in several groups

Charleston City cops are great guys, the CPD has some real warzone conditions in the city, and for the most part they dont go off on powertrips. the Chief Ruben Greenberg, is the best example for diversity ever seen, hes an african-american Jew, to make it really odd the NAACP hates him.

County Sheriffs are good guys too. they have real crimes to take care of.

what Irks me are the donut chompin, 1 car speed-trap police departments.
places like Moncks Corner, Goose Creek, Bonneau, and Jamestown. these guys who lie in wait are the ones who really light my fire.

now the State troopers, its their job to handle traffic so i dont mind them so much.

in short i dont like cops that are waiting and watching, hoping for me to slip up and clap me in irons

 

[Standing Wolf]

Far too many cops have publicly stood squarely in the way of CCW and shall issue.

 

[Blue Line]

You forget that we have a job to do. If we recieve a complaint about someone growing MJ be it 10 or 1000 plants, we have to investigate. If its against the Laws. Thats our job - like it or not. We can be sued for doing our job and NOT doing our job. If the single mother with two kids down the street is trying to hold on to her neighborhood because of the riff raff coming and going all day and nite she has the right to complain. If you don't want to do the time don't do the crime. If your asked if we can search your car "politely say no or talk to my attorney" and the search won't happen. I know I know sometimes it does happen and in that event your attorney will be happier to hear from you, because he hears the cash register - ka ching!. The legislature makes the laws, we enforce them and the Courts try the suspects with a jury of thier peers.

I want to relate a little story sort of goes with this thread. A reproter friend of the family was over for dinner one time. We're all talking and she's mad that she got a speeding ticket. She wanted to know where her "professional courtesy" was. I'm a reproter blah blah blah. I should have been given a by on this one. Well anonther dinner guest spoke up and asked , if this trooper had caught in some bad light where would YOUR professional courtesy been?? She would have had it on the 6 o'clock news with pictures of it all. its not a one way street.

I and everyone else out there has given breaks to all kinds of people. They are sometimes Thankful and sometimes not. Yea I got over etc etc etc. Then because we gave a break someone in the public or a newsie make a front page out of it. We take care of our own just like lawyers, Doctors, engineers and any other profession you can think of. He$$ we even get to arrest each other when it happens. You ever hear of doctors clamping down on each other ? NO. I bet the statistic will prove that Dr.'s lose more patients than cops each year.

I will not make any excuses for bad apples or rude behavior by US or John Q. Public. There out there in all occupations.


Theres bad in everything, we take the job knowing that both the bad and the good people will be unhappy with each decison we make, but we get up each day and go to work anyway.

 

[spartacus2002]

Blue Line,
you miss my point. Doctors are not paid from the public treasury, are not public officials, and do not serve the public trust. Doctors do not have the authority to arrest us if we refuse their medical advice. Even us lawyers police ourselves; in Virginia, we have a duty to report another attorney's unethical conduct to the state bar.

The police are unique because they have the authority to use force against their fellow citizens -- and the citizens are presumed to be wrong if the citizens resist that authority, no matter how justified. Thus, the police must be held to a higher standard, and should hold themselves to a high standard by weeding out those bad apples.

You've arrested cops who broke the law? Good, and I am glad to hear it.

I have had employees call me at 3am because cops pulled them over in rural Tennessee for the crime of Driving While Black. The cops searched their car over their objection with no probable cause, cuffing the driver and ordering the passengers away from the car while they tore it up. When the cops asked who my employee had on the phone, she said "an attorney" -- and loa and behold, the cops quickly gave the keys back and said "be on your way." All because the driver had an afro....

So, yes, it does happen. One example does not a trend make. I ask you and your fellow police officers to stop that kind of stuff and weed out the bad apples. I've worked with police as both a prosecutor and defender, and I know the occupational hazard is to see every person they meet as a potential criminal. Please help the police avoid that trap.

 

[Blue Line]

Ah, if it were only a perfect world with perfect people in it. What a wonderful life. Then you wouldn't need police or lawyers. You missed one of my points that Dr's have more dead patients than police each year. Do bad Dr's keep on seeing patients - Yes. Also, I know several lawyers that have been not policed by the Bar and some that have been given a "ride" home by certain police when a DuI was in order.

You miss my point - you are lumping us all together, just like I tend to lump all Lawyers together. Just like the public lumps all gun owners in with mass murders etc. I don't think we can ever get over this because there are people who just don't like police at all anyway anyhow anywhere. They don't like being told to slow down, don't hit your wife or anything else . This aint the old west where you can do what you want.

BTW did you complain to the Department that the officer worked for when the illegal search happened? No. I didn't think you stood up and did your part to stop those crimes. If you did and were brushed off did you take a further step maybe the newsies? They love to have LEO's for breakfest. You have to help weed them out too. Just like misdemeanors, we have to see it happen to arrest them. Then we're accused of coverups or if we do and the court imposes some sentence your not happy with its all a police conspriacy. We can't win for losing.

 

[Sarge111]

Standing Wolf..

Far too many cops have publicly stood squarely in the way of CCW and shall issue.

I'm calling you on that one.

If they're "publicly" taking a position on a political issue, they aren't what I'd call a "cop". Don't confuse professional politicians with badges, or IACP/CALEA lackeys for COPS- and don't bust my chops, or those of my fellow officers here, over these sellouts. We don't hire these jerks... but more on that in a minute.

You don't have a clue how many people are NON-felons today, just because people like me used some officer discretion and did NOT arrest them for having a handgun in the passenger compartment of their vehicle. You don't know how many of us have argued against filing charges on otherwise law-abiding, peaceful citizens for this kind of conduct. You don't know how many of us have put our careers on the line to stand up against unlawful searches and seizures, based on the suspected presence of a legally-possessed firearm. These battles are fought in squad-rooms and district attorney's offices, and you never hear about it, do you?

Yes, there are Little Hitlers with badges out there, who would love nothing more than to send your Grandma to prison for forgetting that she left that old .32 Owl-Head in the car- the last time her darling little grandson talked her into driving him out to the farm, so's he could shoot it. And then there are people like me, Blue Line, aryfrosty, Weasel, etc- one of whom will probably teach the Little Hitlers, one way or the other, that such nonsense is counterproductive to our efforts.

Yes, there are bums in our ranks- but we try to either re-educate them or run them off. There have been a few times that I have pulled up to a rookie's cruiser and said "Know what, Sport? Quick-Trip is hiring assistant managers, and for more money than you're making here- acting like a jackass with that 90-pound tomato-can pinned to your chest. Do us both a favor and go pick up an application."

You, the taxpaying public, could try a little of that with the morons who PASS the laws that we have to live with on a day-to-day basis. You, the taxpaying public, can put pressure on city councils not to hire bozo chiefs who view the right to keep and bear arms as a political lamb to be sacrificed in the furtherance of their careers.

So give us a little help here. And if you don't speed, act stupid, cause problems, or go around smelling like a freshly-used bong, we'll probably never bother you. We like it better that way, too. I'd HATE to have to put down a good donut to mess with something like THAT

 

[Abenaki]

Some of the things driving a wedge in real deep......

Ruby ridge
Waco
The Rodney King beating.....Justified or not.
No knock raids at 3 am, home owner gets shot....ooops wrong address!
If a person refuses to come out of the house.....Just burn it down!

And some thing else....some of the laws that we have.
Example..... Helmet laws for kids on bikes. Little johny jumps on his bike
and is 2 blocks away before he remembers he forgot to wear his helmet.
Then he sees the patrol car coming around the corner. The first thing through
little Johny's mind.......I gotta get outa here before he gets me!.....and the
wedge is driven deeper!

Abenaki

 

[jimpeel]

There are several problems with how the police interact with the public.

The police need to get out of their cars and interact with the public instead of being distant and aloof. If I were the police chief in Anytown, USA I would reduce the number of officers in cars and start mounted patrols and bicycle patrols.

Mounted patrols are most effective as the officer is placed high and has a better field of vision than in a car. The kids also love to come and pet the horses which gives valuable interaction time between the officer and the public. The kids also learn that the officer is not the enemy because they get to actually talk to them on a friendly basis rather than only hearing about the cops from their friends who have been arrested by them. Most people never interact with the police prior to being stopped for a crime or infraction.

Bicycle cops also have a greater opportunity to interact with the public and are better able to cruise areas where a car cannot go like walkways between buildings, schools, and parks. They are also far more silent that a car or horse when cruising industrial areas, etc.

 

[aryfrosty]

Cops v. "everybody else.

Spartacus:
I am not a legal expert, however I read. In my opinion the Georgia constitution empowers EVERY citizen with the RIGHT to resist any unlawful arrest with any amount of force, up to deadly force, equal to the amount of force inflicted by the unlawful arrest. But it seems to have to BE an unlawful arrest, not just offended feelings.
I agree with you that at times some officers abuse their authority. However there are many cars now equipped with oversight, (in the manner of cameras), and officer quite often know they are subject to being second guessed and, as a consequence, are more careful in their dealings with the public. No officer has a right to do a search without consent except in certain narrowly defined circumstances. An attorney will know what those circumstances are...things like looking for the source of intoxication in a possibly impaired driver stop. Any officer who has sufficient probable cause to search and who cannot obtain consent has the option of asking the courts for a warrant to search. They do not have the option of going ahead with a search in the face of refusal to consent. If they do they are completely wrong, and I don't care who that statement hairlips.
In my experience I have had people complain about "unreasonable searches, improper conduct, no probable cause for stop"... and on and on...who suddenly remembered the way things really were when they were told that a camera had recorded EVERYTHING both sides had said and done. Most common response? "I didn't know they had those cameras in their cars !"
I've seen a few severely embarassed defense attorneys in the courtroom when their client's selective amnesia suddenly vanished.

 

[Samurai Penguin]

I've seen good cops and bad cops. Good points have been made on both sides here, and if we take any lessons away from this thread, those lessons should be: take people as individuals, not "Cop" or "Civilian." Wait for someone to show you who (not what) they are and what they're about before you start making assumptions.

I tend to go away with a warning or less when pulled over. Why? Because I comport myself like a civilized human being, and show the officer the same courtesy and respect that I'd like to be shown. Walk a mile in these cops' shoes--IA has an eyeball on them because the 6'5", 300# biker got a boo-boo during his arrest; the boss is climbing up their nose for some insignificant procedural infraction; the wife wants to know when they get to go on vacation and Johnny needs braces and how come all you do is hang out with other cops and why didn't I marry that gynecologist instead of a no-account cop; and everybody they pull over calls 'em everything from a Nazi to things I can't repeat on this board. Then they pull me over...and I'm the first person who's had a kind and courteous word for 'em all month. It makes a difference.

I've also been the guy arrested for "Lurking with the Intent to Commit Theft." Translation: "You have a mohawk and a leather jacket in a ritzy neighborhood, but there aren't any laws against that." While handcuffed cross-armed with two other guys in the back of the squad, I got a faceful of mace from one of those Fascist power-trippers that give officers a bad name. On the ride downtown, the other officers concurred that that cop was a jerk. Then, as now, I thought: Then why aren't you guys doing anything about him? (On a side note, he got canned a year later for drug use so perhaps they did do something!)

I do believe officers should be held to a higher standard than Joe Citizen. You get the right to pursue, arrest and, if necessary, shoot me; you can carry weapons I can't, in places I can't; I can get in trouble for disobeying your authority. These things are priveleges granted to police by the public, and when those priveleges are abused, the hammer should fall--hard. Remember the guy in NYC, butt-raped with a toilet plunger? I never did hear what happened to those officers, but if guilty, they should be rotting in a cell somewhere. If they aren't, maybe that's one of the things driving a wedge between "Us" and "Them." Lon Horiuchi is still walking free...granted, Feds and Cops aren't the same thing, but in many people's minds, it's all lumped into one big group called "Authority."

Tell ya what...I'll continue to be polite, courteous and respectful, to give cops the benefit of the doubt(to a point), and to recommend to others that they, too, take--ahem--The High Road. You Good Cops out there, meet me halfway. When you see the abuse of power in any branch of Law Enforcement, be it your department or others, stand up and condemn it, loudly and publicly. Show people who might be a bit jaded that yes, good cops still exist, and in greater numbers than they think.

Oh, and by the way--thanks.

 

[Erik]

In no particular order:

Many LEOs embody what it means to be a good guy.

Most strive to embody that ideal.

A small minority taint the reputation of the rest. The bad apple adage...

Most LEOs hold a level of disdain for them which exceeds that of the rest of society.

Most LEOs fall on the side of Second Amendment supporters.

Many LEO administrators do not.

Most citizens support the examples which frustrate so many here. (It had better not effect them personally, though, or they're apt to flip flop...)

Many, however, do not.

Most politicians support them, too.

Some do not.

The power of arrest is one of the most powerful delegated.

Most resent it when it is applied to them.

Most deserve to be arrested.

Some do not.

Often times, that status has nothing to do with the standing of the arresting officer as a good or nbad LEO, but on the facts on hand, the politics of the moment, and a host of things typically beyond the scope of the moment.

Mistakes do not necessarily a bad apple make.

 

[PATH]

There's been a powerful amount of talk on this thread about good vs. bad cops.

I don't know much but I know the following:


My little daughter feels safe when she sees cops and has told me so.

My mother had a heart attack and it was the cops who arrived before the ambulance that started to help her and save her life.

When my wife had an accident on the thruway it was the Troopers that made sure she was okay and drove her to the barracks. She was treated courteously and the Troopers went out of their way to help her.

I feel better knowing that there are cops where my wife is going shopping during the evening hours.

I and my family have never feared for our safety when we see a LEO approaching.

I blew though a stop sign I did not see and was stopped by an officer. He asked if I knew why I was being stopped. I replied, "No, sir I don't." The officer informed me about blowing through a stop sign. I apologized. I said, "I really did not see the stop sign." The officer then said "I Know because you did not even attempt to slow down". The officer then made a little small talk waved to my little girl in the back seat and told me to please be careful. He made a point of saying I had to keep my little girl safe. He waved to her as he walked back to his car. I was flat out dead to rights wrong. He had every right to write me up. He let me go with a warning. Pretty damn decent if you ask me and not a nasty attitude or word.

When my mother-in-law took ill it was again the cops who arrived before the ambulance and started to render aid.

I have two nephews who are on the job and they are both fine decent young men and they carry themselves that way.

My best friend is retiring after 24 years on the job after developing heart trouble. A finer man you'll never meet and he'd give you the shirt off his back. He does volunteer work at his local hospital visiting the sick and such.

No, I truly don't know much. I do know that I when I see a LEO I am not filled with fear. I feel safer!

I said it on another thread and I will say it again!


THANK YOU to all the fine men and women of law enforcement who put it on the line everyday! THANK YOU!!!

 

[varminator]

fix youself!

Knibermember I think I understand where you were coming from. Fix! Whats your problem anyway?

I think the point was that not all police officers are bad and it is easier to know who is a bad person if you know everybody personally. The bad guys are bad in everybodies opionion.

Oh ya and the Matt Dillon analogy was an example.

When Matt Dillion walked out into the street of Dodge City he could tell at an instant who were the good guys

If I refered to a police officer I new as a kid you would have no idea who I was speaking of. Would you? But if we refer to Andy Griffin all but the dumbest or youngest know him. He's a good example of the concept the was being conveyed. We all know Andy but you don't know personal acqaintences of mine as an individual. So many people such as Knibermember use examples that we all can relate to. Doh!

Fix you need to understand what methods of communication are being used!

next

That's exactly the way I feel. Sadly, there are plenty of cops who don't see it this way. Now back to the original question. Knibermember brings up a point that could be considered valid if put into a different light. Could it be that the ratio of "Us vs. Them" attitudes is directly proportional to the local crime rate? My thought is that the "Us vs. Them" attitude is more likely to be displayed by cops who work in high crime areas, which probably leads to them feeling that humanity as a whole is a cesspool, after coming in contact with the worst humanity has to offer on a regular basis. The "Us vs. Them" attitude is more likely to be displayed by law abiding citizens where crime rates are low, and the police are percieved as having nothing better to do than harass them. Thoughts?

Sometimes police officers are really friendly. As they should be. But at times they are real butts! I really appreciate what they do for us.
I supported the police officers who beat Rodney King from the beginning. He deserved to get beat down.

I say yes sir and no sir to police officers everytime I speak with one. To the cesspool of humanity such as Rodney King. You make the mistake of fighting with a police officer. You deserve to get beat down. Once you start fighting you screwed up!!!!!! Black, white who cares its actions that count!

I think the point Knibermember was making was If you show respect to the officer they should be respectful in return. If you screw up and speed at 100 mph or more and then fight then get beat down you deserve it!

.

The city cops harass us volunteer firefighters and EMT's when we have to bluelight through any part of the city to get to our station for a call. I've been pulled over and threatened with baseless tickets numerous times.

Soda, you should really think of getting to know these police officers. Talk to them everytime you see them. Really, maybe the raport with them will help!

I understand that being a police officer is one of the most dificult jobs that can be in todays society. Because of the cespool peoples. Not we regular law abiding peoples.

Oh ya, Sarge, Thank you!

 

[VNgo]

We're not like fireman or paramedics there to bandaid your bo-bo.

I don't mean to be rude, but EMTs do a *hell* of a lot more than that. Defend your profession all you want, but don't slam other people in the process, okay? You may have to deal with criminal scum every day, and I have the utmost respect for that, but that doesn't give you the right to look down on the rest of the world, and *especially* not EMTs.

You don't have to go into the worst parts of town all by your lonesome with no bulletproof vest, no gun, and no backup.
You don't have to wonder if the local police are going to show up in time (or at all) when the bullets start flying.
You don't have to deal with people dying in your arms on a regular basis.
You don't have to get up, wipe the blood off your uniform and go right back to work as if nothing was wrong after someone dies on your watch.
You don't get paid a lousy $8.50 an hour for all of the above and more.

 

[Ryder]

Thinking of Us-vs-Them in terms of Predator-vs-Prey helps to understand the problem.

I've known some cops with the Us-vs-Them mindset, to them everybody is a "perp". For citizens it's more of a Them-vs-Us. Their viewpoint being one of a defensive distinction means they've no choice but to be unjustly confronted.

Innocent people are being victimized on each side of the equation. Who has the opportunity to change things? It's not the side without a choice.

 

[varminator]

WOW!

I don't mean any disrespect but why so much hostility?

I mean it almost sounds a a prejudice.

 

[aryfrosty]

Us and them

VNgo;
I am with you on that issue. Too often people forget thereason we are ALL out there is to help. I became an EMT, Cardiac Tech and Advanced EMT the back door way...I had been a cop for 9 years when I got hurt on the job. I was anti-EMS and anti-ambulance right up to the night I really needed them. I was amazed and impressed enough that when I came back to work I enrolled in basic EMT class and never looked back. I went on to instructor's duty while working as a cop. I was also the best friend EMS crews had when I was working at the PD.
Not just cops, EMTs and firemen....all of us in this world need to pull together. There's no way to know who will step up and help you the next time you need help.

 

[VNgo]

I've been very fortunate thus far; the only negative encounter I've had with a cop was a couple weeks ago when I pulled over at a car crash on the freeway. A CHP motorcycle officer was on scene and *very* angrily demanded that I leave immedately; he did get out of my face once I until I identified myself as an off-duty EMT (there was no ambulance on scene at that point), but remained surly and highly uncooperative afterwards. I can see why he might be mad at a random bystander pulling over to spectate, but he should have apologized for the misunderstanding once I showed him my ID.

For the most part, though, I trust and respect cops.