RochPersDef
Member
Remember: There are idiots among us - and they have guns!
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Correcting an Instructor
- Thread starter Crosswind81
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sxcamaro05
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Report him please and get "the batman" type removed. I have a customer that will against all logic argue for the sake of CCW for every person. He actually believe he has the right to detain, question, and execute only because his CCW instructor told him he does. People that spread misinformation or more dangerous than their informants. They create a cycle that can only be broken by informed persons.
RochPersDef
Member
Since there is little oversight, in most cases, with instructors that are providing a mandated CCW type service or even those that provide training in general, then it is up to US to police the industry to preserve OUR image and credibility.
Reporting unsafe actions, irrelevant training, or just plain inadequate training should be a decision that is not made lightly but should be done regardless. We rarely hear about how great a class was, rather how bad or idiotic some instructor is. This allowance of those sub-optimal instructors to continue instructing only reflects on the rest of us because we do nothing to eliminate the issue.
What are our options? Re-education of the instructor is one. If they are approachable, then that would be preferable. Maybe the individual is utilizing old methodology or beliefs that are no longer valid. Maybe they were never taught the information and skill-sets correctly in the first place. Once we identify an issue, it should be the idea to correct it before thinking about eliminating it.
On the other end of the scale is to report them to whatever oversight organization there is. Are they certified by the NRA? If they are not following the prescribed lesson plan and doctrine of the NRA when teaching classes, then they are defrauding their students. Are they certified somehow by the state or local municipality? Make them hold this instructor accountable for his actions and or remove them from our food chain.
We all know you can go too far when teaching. Stay in topic, and don't overdo it. I for one make it my personal goal to provide the best possible training to my abilities. If I feel I am lacking in a subject, I fix that by obtaining the proper skills or knowledge. Any instructor that works for me is held to that same standard. I have in the past, and I will in the future, report or otherwise make it known to whomever required, any instructor that fails to provide relevant, safe, and quality education and training.
This is a serious subject and should be treated as such. There are no 'gimmies' in the firearms world. One slip, one stupid action, one instance of someone overstepping their guidelines and allowances, and it just goes all to hell.
We need to make sure that does not happen.
Reporting unsafe actions, irrelevant training, or just plain inadequate training should be a decision that is not made lightly but should be done regardless. We rarely hear about how great a class was, rather how bad or idiotic some instructor is. This allowance of those sub-optimal instructors to continue instructing only reflects on the rest of us because we do nothing to eliminate the issue.
What are our options? Re-education of the instructor is one. If they are approachable, then that would be preferable. Maybe the individual is utilizing old methodology or beliefs that are no longer valid. Maybe they were never taught the information and skill-sets correctly in the first place. Once we identify an issue, it should be the idea to correct it before thinking about eliminating it.
On the other end of the scale is to report them to whatever oversight organization there is. Are they certified by the NRA? If they are not following the prescribed lesson plan and doctrine of the NRA when teaching classes, then they are defrauding their students. Are they certified somehow by the state or local municipality? Make them hold this instructor accountable for his actions and or remove them from our food chain.
We all know you can go too far when teaching. Stay in topic, and don't overdo it. I for one make it my personal goal to provide the best possible training to my abilities. If I feel I am lacking in a subject, I fix that by obtaining the proper skills or knowledge. Any instructor that works for me is held to that same standard. I have in the past, and I will in the future, report or otherwise make it known to whomever required, any instructor that fails to provide relevant, safe, and quality education and training.
This is a serious subject and should be treated as such. There are no 'gimmies' in the firearms world. One slip, one stupid action, one instance of someone overstepping their guidelines and allowances, and it just goes all to hell.
We need to make sure that does not happen.
FuzzyBunny
Member
I am a past and one of the first Texas CHL Instructors in Texas.
I have no idea what they are teaching now but from the law I learned at the time. This guy is so far off base he is not even in the stadium.
To quote your post.
At some point he also stated something to the effect of " If I see a person with a gun drawn on another in a parking lot I will immediately draw on him and ask one question...are you a CHL"? "If i do not get the right answer...BOOM"
This whack job is one step away from going to prison.
I am really shocked a CHL holder much less someone who claims to be an instructor would say anything close to that! I know there have been a few law changes but something like this would have hit my radar screen.
There is a Texas CHL Forum and I would suggest you post your story there in case I'm dead wrong. http://www.texaschlforum.com/
I may have just got better training at the DPS academy in Austin since I was one of the first groups but this guy is way off base!
My biggest fear was bad guys with guns but now this guys student are a close second.
I have no idea what they are teaching now but from the law I learned at the time. This guy is so far off base he is not even in the stadium.
To quote your post.
At some point he also stated something to the effect of " If I see a person with a gun drawn on another in a parking lot I will immediately draw on him and ask one question...are you a CHL"? "If i do not get the right answer...BOOM"
This whack job is one step away from going to prison.
I am really shocked a CHL holder much less someone who claims to be an instructor would say anything close to that! I know there have been a few law changes but something like this would have hit my radar screen.
There is a Texas CHL Forum and I would suggest you post your story there in case I'm dead wrong. http://www.texaschlforum.com/
I may have just got better training at the DPS academy in Austin since I was one of the first groups but this guy is way off base!
My biggest fear was bad guys with guns but now this guys student are a close second.
RochPersDef
Member
I would verbalize "Drop the weapon" ONLY IF I COULD ASCERTAIN that the person was a bad guy. A second of observation would probably help.
Otherwise, I'm yelling at both (From cover by the way) "Stop what you are doing and drop that weapon" One of them will probably run (umm...bad guy?) and the other will probably start letting me know what's going on.
Shooting immediately without absolutely, positively, 100% confirming what's going on is dangerous, reckless and criminal....
Otherwise, I'm yelling at both (From cover by the way) "Stop what you are doing and drop that weapon" One of them will probably run (umm...bad guy?) and the other will probably start letting me know what's going on.
Shooting immediately without absolutely, positively, 100% confirming what's going on is dangerous, reckless and criminal....
Bad information travels faster than correct, usually. The idea of wanting to get in the middle of a gunfight is idiotic at best, if he ever tried that he'd be the first to go to jail. His first duty ( and even more so his being a certified instructor) is to monitor the situation while calling 911.
If I saw a gun drawn on someone my instinctive thought ( depending on a lot of variables here ) is the guy with the gun is being robbed, but I still would be wary to intercede as first I am not an officer of the law and second I have no idea what's going on. Like the bad guy if he is the one with the gun wouldn't lie.
Not to bash any instructors here but I really don't know how hard it is to become certified, I took Hunter's Education in high school during small engines class. The teacher also taught every other AG class there was. He was a great teacher and we're still friends to this day but that is a lot on anyone's plate. Not to forget I remember him telling us in school he was required to teach it, I was glad I didn't have to waste a weekend but if you're required to how much heart are you going to put in it? Mine was great others may not be.
If I saw a gun drawn on someone my instinctive thought ( depending on a lot of variables here ) is the guy with the gun is being robbed, but I still would be wary to intercede as first I am not an officer of the law and second I have no idea what's going on. Like the bad guy if he is the one with the gun wouldn't lie.
Not to bash any instructors here but I really don't know how hard it is to become certified, I took Hunter's Education in high school during small engines class. The teacher also taught every other AG class there was. He was a great teacher and we're still friends to this day but that is a lot on anyone's plate. Not to forget I remember him telling us in school he was required to teach it, I was glad I didn't have to waste a weekend but if you're required to how much heart are you going to put in it? Mine was great others may not be.
RochPersDef
Member
In some places, it's like fogging the mirror to get certified to teach. Other places, it's pretty thorough and can be hard work.
It's what you do after the certification that is important. Unfortunately, it's just a joke what some of these 'instructors' do
It's what you do after the certification that is important. Unfortunately, it's just a joke what some of these 'instructors' do
HankB
Member
READ the CHL manual, and you should know everything you need to pass the course AND know the limits of your CHL. (Hint: A CHL does NOT make you a cop! Hint: Don't go looking for trouble!)
I've gone through the TX CHL class three times (including two renewal classes) from three different instructors, and though I didn't agree completely with everything said, I've never heard something so ridiculous as reported in the OP.
BUT . . . since I've gone through a great many other classes "to get my ticket punched" on everything from diversity awareness to anti-bribery laws, I've found that the quickest way to get through is to shut up, pass the test, and be on my way. There's seldom anything to be gained by correcting the instructor, and folks who do - making the class run longer - earn the ire of others who don't want to waste time in the class anyway.
I've gone through the TX CHL class three times (including two renewal classes) from three different instructors, and though I didn't agree completely with everything said, I've never heard something so ridiculous as reported in the OP.
BUT . . . since I've gone through a great many other classes "to get my ticket punched" on everything from diversity awareness to anti-bribery laws, I've found that the quickest way to get through is to shut up, pass the test, and be on my way. There's seldom anything to be gained by correcting the instructor, and folks who do - making the class run longer - earn the ire of others who don't want to waste time in the class anyway.
I may be stubborn, but I call it out when I hear bad information. I try to do it respectfully, but I do call it out. I've had the TX CHL class plus three renewals, your instructor was wrong on all counts as you know.
I called out the instructor on bad advice in my last class, he told a somewhat frail old lady that a Kahr PM40 was the perfect defensive firearm choice for her. I called BS, asked him if he ever shot a PM40. Told him that it was a terrible recommendation due to the severe recoil.
I called out the instructor on bad advice in my last class, he told a somewhat frail old lady that a Kahr PM40 was the perfect defensive firearm choice for her. I called BS, asked him if he ever shot a PM40. Told him that it was a terrible recommendation due to the severe recoil.
RochPersDef
Member
BS is BS and should be addressed
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