Cost of caliber changes of 550 vs LNL and Pwdr Meas question

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BHFG

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I am trying to evaluate the cost differences of the RL550B vs a Hornady LNL AP for loading 4 different calbers (.38spl, 9mm, .45ACP and .223) and hope the experts here can help me out.

The cost of the press itself is within $10-$15 if you don't figure in Hornady's free 1000 bullet offer. And the cost of dies is the same either way. So, my question is on caliber change setups to have a dedicated 'toolhead' for each caliber and re-use the powder measure.

The 550 appears to be pretty straight forward. Since one setup comes on the press, I need 3 more setups:
3 extra toolheads = ~$55
3 extra powder dies = ~$30
3 caliber conversion kits = ~$126
Total = ~$206

The LNL is a bit more confusing to me. I know the press does not come with a shellplate, so I need 4 of those, and I think a set of 4 bushings for each die set. I am not so sure on the powder inserts. Sounds like I would need to buy a rifle metering insert and a pistol metering insert. But do I need to buy a separate powder die as well for each caliber? Here is what I have so far for the LNL:
16 bushings = ~$63
4 Shellplates = ~$108
Rifle Metering Insert = ~$64
Pistol Metering Insert = ~$64
Total = ~$299

Am I missing something or do these lists look correct and complete?

Regarding the powder systems, I have 2 questions:
- My understanding is that Dillon has redEsigned their powder measure to address earlier complaints, and that it works pretty well now. So that means that buying an extra powder measure for each setup is more for convenience and fast caliber changes now than for any major shortcoming. Is that true?
- Does the LNL AP and the 550 both come with support for case-activated-powder-charging from the factory, or are additional accessories needed to add that feature?
- Does the LNL AP come with support for powder-though-charging and expanding in one step from the factory, or do you have to buy additional accessories to add that capability?

I appreciate everyone's help. If I totally missed something, or forgot to add anything in my list related to caliber changes, I hope folks will please educate me.

Tnx!!
 
OK, I'm going to try to be kind here....

worrying about $50-100 on a press set up is a fool's errant IMO. What is $100 in the world of shooting anyway? I shoot .45LC the most. A box is about $50, so the difference is two boxes of ammo. I shoot twice that every time out. If I paid for factory, it would be $200.

IMO, you should consider more which press is the easiest, causes the least problems, and gives you the most satisfaction.

I have a Dillon 550. It may be the best, may not be. I don't give a rat's rear. I can swap calibers in just a couple of minutes. Since it's manual advance, I can more easily load rifle ammo that I'm working up. If anything breaks, Dillon sends me a new one N/C.

I HATE messing with stuff. When I want to load, I want to load. I don't want to change a bunch of settings. With the Dillon, I swap in the whole tool head with quick change (powder measures, dies, and powder bushings). Everything is there, pre-set and ready to go.

To be straight up equivalent...with the L-n-L, you can swap the dies (in bushings), dump out the powder, change powder inserts, and be ready to run.

To be equivalent with the Dillon, you'd have separate powder bars already adjusted and dies installed in tool heads that slide in place. The whole measure would have to be moved.
 
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To be equivalent with the Dillon . . .
Click to expand...

And to be equivalent with the Hornady the Dillon would be a 650.

It bothers me when people compare the LnL to the 550. The LnL is an auto progressive and much closer in function to the 650.
Anyhow . . . . . I suppose that's for another thread.

There's a thread here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=262540 talking about the cost differences between the two presses.

In the end they're both good presses and will serve you well.

-
Jim
 
For the LNL, You need the shell plates. It comes with a large powder measure rotor. Get a pistol rotor and thats it. I really like mine.
 
BHFG
Sorry, but your representation is a little off.

Costs below are from Graphs

It clearly states that with the 550 “No Caliber Conversion Kit (Shellplate, powder funnel, or locator buttons) is included. Those that offer the press with the CC Kit charge more than the initial price of the press plus the Kit.

WOW!! You grossly overstated the cost of the micrometer Rifle and Pistol inserts. They are $28.50 ea not $64. In addition they are not necessary because the PM comes with a metering insert. In order to use them, in all fairness you must include Dillon adjustable powder slides as well.

One changeover
550 - Quick Changeover (Toolhead, Powder Measure, Powder Die, Toolhead Stand, $91 ea) and Caliber Conversion Kit (Shellplate, powder funnel, or locator buttons $45)
TOTAL= $136

LNL - Shellplate $26.50 – (10 pack of QC bushings $35 = $3.50 per bushing) No powder measure necessary; add an additional $3.50 for each. Powder Thru Expander Die for PM $9 for each caliber.
Using 3 die sets $11.50 for bushings; Shellplate $26.50; Expander dies $9
TOTAL= $47.00
Using 4 die sets $14.00 for bushings; Shellplate $26.50; Expander dies $9
TOTAL= $50.50

Four changeovers
550 - Total $136.00 x 4 = $544
LNL+3die setup - Total $47.00 x 4 = $188
LNL+4die setup - Total $50.50 x 4 = $202
 
Your 550 PM questions...

- My understanding is that Dillon has redesigned their powder measure to address earlier complaints, and that it works pretty well now. So that means that buying an extra powder measure for each setup is more for convenience and fast caliber changes now than for any major shortcoming. Is that true?
Click to expand...

The redesign was done several years ago. If you buy an old one off Ebay, they'll update it for you for free. Regardless, it works very well.

YES. Buying a second powder measure is purely for convenience. With a standard 550B press you get one powder measure body, and both large and small metering blocks. A second PM simply allows you to have one PM pre-setup for rifle and a second PM pre-setup for pistol.


- Does the 550... come with support for case-activated-powder-charging from the factory, or are additional accessories needed to add that feature?
Click to expand...

The standard Dillon 550 PM must detect the presence of a shell case beneath the PM in order for it to discharge powder. If you have a missing shell case as the shell holder progresses, no powder will drop when the empty position comes under the PM.


Hope this helps!
 
Funny

Your numbers at Graf's.com for Dillon 550B conversion you mention are about $230 for the 3. The bare press is $354. Looks like about $585 for a three caliber set up. I believe Graf's has free shipping.

http://www.grafs.com/product/185564
Product Information

4 station progressive loader
Station 1) resize/deprime/prime
Station 2) powder drop/flare
Station 3) seat
Station 4) crimp
The RL550B is able to load rifle as well as pistol cartridges The RL550B uses standard 7/8 by 14 thread per inch dies, as long as they deprime in the size die Manually indexed shellplate Manually fed cases and bullets Capable of loading 400 to 600 rounds per hour
The basic 550 includes:

* Powder measure with standard large and small powder bars (small installed), Small bar throws from 2.1 to 15 grains of powder Large bar throws up to 55 to 60 grains of powder.
* One prime system with large and small priming parts.
* One large and one small pick up tube
* One toolhead
* One powder die
* One loaded cartridge catch bin
* One written instruction manual
* One set of standard Allen wrenches

No dies are included.

No extra powder measures are necessary. You can add them if you like. The tool stands are not necessary, they are nice.

Hornady Information, same site: http://www.grafs.com/product/188563

be sure to read Hornandy's notes and cautions.

Hard to believe there's so much loyalty to loading equipment brands. Use them all make good ammo. Shoot more. Shoot better. Shoot safe.

Scott
 
Don't forget about the 1,000 "free" bullets from Hornady. When you buy the press. And 100 bullets with every Die set you buy.

I use my lnl ap to load 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 acp, .270 win.

After purchasing the press I had to buy 4 die sets, 3 shell plates. (Some Calibers share shell plates) I also purchased the pistol meter for the powder measurer, and powder through expanders for the powder drop for 9 40 45. I dont load 270 in full progressive mode I hand measure each round. 16 bushings.

I have also dealt with Hornady's customer service and if you do need a part replaced they will send it with no questions asked.
 
Let's compare apples to apples here...

If you are comparing an LNL to a 550, you do not need powder dies for each caliber on the LNL, you can use the expander die that comes with most pistol die sets; the LNL has an extra station for it.

If you are not going to buy separate PMs for the 550, then you wouldn't buy separate PM inserts for each caliber on the LNL either. The LNL now comes with both a rifle and a pistol PM insert/drum. Even if you did want one for each caliber, you only need two more, at ~$10 ea (midway). Or you could buy one pistol and one rifle micrometer insert, and be done forever. But either way that's apples and oranges.

The LNL comes with 5 LNL bushings, so you'll only need to add 4x2(pistol) plus 2 more (rifle) for all your dies. They are $31.49 per package of 10 at midway, not $63.

So, we're down to:
10 bushings = ~$32
4 Shellplates = ~$108
Rifle Metering Insert = ~$0 (included)
Pistol Metering Insert = ~$0 (included)
Total = ~$140

Compared to $206 for the Dillon 550 conversion cost...

Dillon redesigned their PM linkage to lessen the chances of double charging a case on the auto-indexing 650. The redesign has zero benefit on the manual indexing 550; you can just as easily double charge (or no-charge) a case on the 550 with the old or new linkage. There were no changes to the PM itself (other than the linkage piece that comes with each PM).

Both the 550 and the LNL come from the factory with case activated PM linkages, nothing else to buy.

The LNL has the option of using powder through expanders (which then makes it convenient to have separate, pre-adjusted powder dies for each caliber) on the LNL to free up an extra station for a powder check die on the LNL. Otherwise you don't need them on the LNL (use the expander die that comes with most pistol die sets). You do not have the option of a powder check die on the 550; you have to use powder through expanders anyway: apples and oranges.

Andy
 
im confused.
I guess thats why i got a lee :) chuckles.
What color are hornady presses? red or orange?
get a blue one!! it looks different :)

Haha, sorry I just got real lost with all the bushings etc.
 
Hello BHFG,

I did some pricing of my own and here is what I found.

Here are facts:

The Dillon 550B can be bought with a caliber conversion kit for $385.95 + Tax, Includes shipping and handling. Period.

http://www.sugarfreebob.com/DILLONRL550B.htm

*Dillon 550B can also be bought without a caliber conversation for under $350.00

For the record, to change to a new caliber in the 550B
All you need is a caliber conversation (less than $40.00 including shipping and handling) and a set of dies (Lee Dies are very inexpensive). That's it!!!

You do not need to to purchase a Quick Changeover (Toolhead, Powder Measure, Powder Die, Toolhead Stand, $91 ea) in order to change calibers.

Also, it doesn't take that long to set up a tool head from scratch either.
I can set my tool head up from scratch in about 5 minutes. If I can, you can.

The Dillon Machines also keep their value better because after all, why would you pay $350.00 for a used Hornady LNL AP when you can get a brand new one for the same price plus 1000 bullets. How much are 1000 bullets worth? I have heard fellow THR members say that after purchase, take away the dollar amount value of free bullets, your new Hornady LNL AP will have only cost about $150.00 dollars. Hmmm... kinda makes me wonder what the resale value is...

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=PC095100&src=tpCtg

I am only speaking facts.

LGB
 
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1000 bullets with shipping is round 100 +- a few.

but if im not mistaken that special ended in dec. 2008.

Hell id love to just get both :)
 
1000 bullets with shipping is round 100 +- a few.
Click to expand...

Hello Mate,

I do not even want to attempt to argue with you, IsOn3

What kind of bullets are you talking about?

I don't think I have seen 1000 x 30 cal Hornady bullets for $100.00 bucks in the last couple of years anywhere.

Current From Midway:
Hornady InterLock Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 150 Grain Spire Point Box of 100Product #: 235800
Status: Out of Stock, Backorder OK
Our Price:
$20.99
$200.00+ bucks for 1000 not including shipping if my calculater is adding right.

These are the bullets I would order from their offer list.

Again, I am not argueing with anyone, I am only stating facts, not my opinion or my experiences.

LGB
 
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The Hornady free bullet offer has been extended through the end of 2009. They told me today that with this promotion, they don't expect the 3 month backlog for a new press will improve anytime this year.

The bullets you can order are limited to a certain list. I think the most expensive ones are the ones lgbloader mentioned. So since I would be buying components to start with, this is a savings to consider.

The post from LordJim points to a very good, and what appears to be fair, comparison of the LNL to the RL650. I am assuming that the functional comments on the 650 are relatively the same for the 550. It is at least a data point. The slower caliber change over noted for the 650 is faster for the 550, so that comparison doesn't apply. And since Hornady redesigned the retainer spring now so the all dies work in station 5 (I think they call it the EZject) that issue is gone from the LNL. Thre are some pros and cons on both sides, so it looks like a toss up in this category now.

That article claims a LNL setup is $1 less than the 650. I am not so sure about that, but at least it looks like the full LNL setup is slightly more than the 550 setup. But, with free bullets, the cost advantage might go slightly to the LNL once you figure in everything for 'typical' setups. I don't have Redneck2's apparent overflowing budget, so $50-$100 to me is significant.

But it still looks like there is conflicting feedback on what is really needed on the LNL for caliber changes. Even after reading the manual online today it is not crystal clear. For example, they list the case-activated-powder-charging as an optional accessory in the back, but the text says the powder measure already has it (which I believe is really the case).

Warranties are equal, but from stories I have heard, Dillon has a slight edge in overall customer care. Some may disagree, I am only going on what I can find overall from first hand stories.

The problem for me is there is no clear cut answer. Both have proven to be great tools with loyal customer bases, good customer support, reliable performance, and long service. So it is going to come down to a tough decision.

Having to wait 2-3 months for an LNL is not acceptable, and since Natchez won't ship to Ga (or AL or TN), availability is an issue. Also, I don't know anyone in or around north Atlanta area that has a LNL where I can check out one out in person or get in touch with if I need some friendly help. If anyone is near north Atlanta and is willing to demonstrate the LNL, please PM me.

The Dillon is available right now and I know 3 Dillon user's in my neighborhood so I have a local user group to go to for help. In the end, that may end up being the kicker for me.

Either way, for me the decision is going to be a tough one. The final decision will have to wait a week now because I found out my Mom has cancer and will have surgery early next week. So I won't order anything until I get back from helping her. Maybe by then somebody may end up with a LNL in stock!
 
I don't have Redneck2's apparent overflowing budget, so $50-$100 to me is significant.
Click to expand...
I've seen this same cat fight dozens of times in the past....

Dillon.....Hornady......Dillon....Hornady

I've had my 550 over 10 years. By this time, the free bullets are long gone. You've saved thousands on ammo if you shoot much. Maybe I am rich if I can afford a whopping $5 year.

$5 a year amortized over the 10 years seems pretty petty. Lots of guys spend $20k+ on cars or trucks that they keep three or four years, then try to shave fifty cents off something they keep a lifetime.

Go to your DVD and CD collection. I suspect the average person here has at least 250. At a very conservative $10 each, you've got $2,500 and most of them haven't seen the light of day in years.

Pay for everything with folding money, then throw your change in a jar when you come home at night. You'll have your press money in 6 months and never miss it.
 
Red -
That's true enough. These decisions are hard to make simply because the marketing departments of the various press manufacturers have priced them to be exactly that way.

If you want to make a good decision, since the perceived values are equivalent, then you'll have to look at the operation of the presses ("how hard is it to take a cartridge out half-way through the cycle in order to measure the powder before the bullet is seated?"), and the service the manufacturer offers. The price comparisons have already been beat to death in the board rooms.

Hope this helps!
 
I have both presses, I am currently loading Large primer rounds on my LNL, .45acp and .44 magnum, I load the small primer rounds on my Dillon 550B.

Both presses will cost you about the same for the basic setups. I have loaded about 150,000 rounds on my 550b in the 10 years I have owned it, all pistol rounds, I only have one Dillon powder measure its easy to adjust in tool head changes. The tool head powder die, and belling insert on the Dillon are easy to change over, the Dillon measure has been dead accurate on pistol charges.

I have owned the LNL for 14 months and loaded about 5,000 rounds on it. I have had to replace the case retainer spring about 4 times now when it broke, a weak point in the design, when it breaks the rounds in progress fall on the floor, which is annoying.
The Hornady powder measure is less accurate on pistol charges, and requires more height adjustment and futzing when going from one caliber to another than the Dillon does. Dillons powder through belling works flawlessly.
Hornady's through belling is a joke, I tried to make it work, but I ended up using the flaring die in a seperate station for .45 acp with lead cast bullets, the hornady insert will not flare the cases enough for cast bullets. Hornady's decaping and capture of the spent primers is better than Dillons, the LNL is a cleaner press.

Both are good presses, the bullet offer does make the Hornady cheaper than the Dillon.

I load rifle on a rockchucker, but if you plan to load alot of rifle on your progressive, .308, .223, the hornady is the better press IMHO.
 
550 Powder Measure Prob?

Not to hijack the thread, but what is/was the problem with the 550 powder measure thats now been "fixed"?
Got a couple 550's several years old and didn't know I had
a prob, but if theres an upgrade I'd like to look into it.
 
The Hornady powder measure is less accurate on pistol charges
Click to expand...
This something I do not understand. When you look at the Hornady, it appears to be made much better, with better tolerances. Still, I have trouble keeping my Hornady measure even close to consistent at the Dillons. I have idea why. Only thing I can figure is that when the Dillon klunks and jumps, it settles the powder. Dunno.

I have loaded about 150,000 rounds on my 550b in the 10 years I have owned it, all pistol rounds,
Click to expand...
Jeez....ya think the press is paid for? This gets back to my point about the cost. This is one of the few tools you have that you can figure the payback, and it's real quick if you shoot much at all. I figure my whole set up was paid off in a few months. That's why the cost meant little. I'm too poor to buy cheap stuff.
 
The Hornady powder measure is less accurate on pistol charges
Click to expand...
This something I do not understand. When you look at the Hornady, it appears to be made much better, with better tolerances. Still, I have trouble keeping my Hornady measure even close to consistent at the Dillons. I have idea why. Only thing I can figure is that when the Dillon klunks and jumps, it settles the powder. Dunno.

I have loaded about 150,000 rounds on my 550b in the 10 years I have owned it, all pistol rounds,
Click to expand...
Jeez....ya think the press is paid for? This gets back to my point about the cost. This is one of the few tools you have that you can figure the payback, and it's real quick if you shoot much at all. I figure my whole set up was paid off in a few months. That's why the cost meant little. I'm too poor to buy cheap stuff.
 
The Hornady powder measure is less accurate on pistol charges
Click to expand...
This something I do not understand. When you look at the Hornady, it appears to be made much better, with better tolerances. Still, I have trouble keeping my Hornady measure even close to consistent at the Dillons. I have idea why. Only thing I can figure is that when the Dillon klunks and jumps, it settles the powder. Dunno.

I have loaded about 150,000 rounds on my 550b in the 10 years I have owned it, all pistol rounds,
Click to expand...
Jeez....ya think the press is paid for? This gets back to my point about the cost. This is one of the few tools you have that you can figure the payback, and it's real quick if you shoot much at all. I figure my whole set up was paid off in a few months. That's why the cost meant little. I'm too poor to buy cheap stuff.
 
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