Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Costs of a Steyr AUG

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by mortablunt, Jun 12, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mortablunt

    mortablunt Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,590
    Location:
    Deutschland
    I'm looking to purchase a Steyr AUG and I'm trying to figure out what is a good price for a decent one. I've been to the official site, which demands a bit over $2K. Is it possible to find one that doesn't cost an arm, a leg, and most of my hair?
     
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,507
    Location:
    Central PA
    Have you considered the MSAR STG556? An American-made AUG clone?

    http://www.msarinc.com/

    Don't know current prices, but certainly widen your field -- unless you're looking for the Steyr name.
     
  3. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,046
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    For around $2k it must bt an A3 which means it is a Sabre made gun under license from Steyr. Since Sabre's legal troubles i dont know if they're still making them or if all available or just inventory from before. Either way, you're not going to find one for under 2 grand. An A1 or A2 would be significantly more. Like Sam1911 mentioned, the other option is the MSAR but i don't know off hand what they are going for. The earlier MSARs were prone to lots of issues but to my knowledge they've been worked out. I love mine but did have to get some parts replaced to get it running as great as it does. Some of the parts made in the past by MSAR were made of metals below necessary specs. I put a can on mine for the first time about a month ago and it went through a couple of hundred rounds without a hiccup. However, i did see an Aug A3 at a local gun shop recently that was very tempting. One of the coolest features of the platform is the quick change barrel but good luck finding different sizes.
     
  4. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Location:
    Rural Kentucky, surrounded by Amish
    Sabre Defense is 100% kaput.
    Bankrupt and all assets sold.


    Website is even 404ed

    http://www.sabredefence.com/
     
  5. jungle

    jungle Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    703
    Location:
    Miami
    Owned a pair in the '80s, paid $522 per and at that price they were a deal, sold them for 2k each during one of the many "assault" weapons panics.

    The good: Compact, good ergos, quality build and barrel, stone reliable

    The bad: Poor trigger and not a hope of smithing the plastic fire control parts, muzzle light(some may like this), parts super expensive, locked into permanent optic unless you have the railed version. Proprietary magazines.

    The ugly: Sparse technical and parts support, did nothing better than the widely available AR variants except be smaller in the same barrel length, practical accuracy was good but not as good as an AR. The AR beats almost all of the furrin' designs anyway, most by a wide margin all things considered.

    Few countries chose it as their primary infantry arm, Steyr has always built quality weapons with the exception of a certain older 9mm, but price and lack of steady supply have limited their success in the US.
     
  6. gopguy

    gopguy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,173
    Location:
    S.W. Ohio
    You will pay well over $3K and more likely $4K for an original pre 89 gun. You will pay $3K for a USR. The Sabre guns are done and prices are rising on the used market. It's a matter of finding them on the used market. The MSAR is an unlicensed AUG clone, parts and mags do not interchange... However it is more affordable and still in production.


    <deleted>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2011
  7. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,507
    Location:
    Central PA
    [Woah, look...An AUG thread without an AR-15 argument! Let's keep it that way.]
     
  8. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,046
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    "The bad: Poor trigger and not a hope of smithing the plastic fire control parts, muzzle light(some may like this), parts super expensive, locked into permanent optic unless you have the railed version. Proprietary magazines."

    The MSAR can be had with a AR15 accepting stock. Reciever and barrel can be swapped out between stocks easily. Aftermarker stocks that accept AR mags available for Aug A3 for about $300 at CDNN.

    There are aftermarket parts that make significant improvement in trigger pull but still not great.


    "The ugly: Sparse technical and parts support, did nothing better than the widely available AR variants except be smaller in the same barrel length, practical accuracy was good but not as good as an AR. The AR beats almost all of the furrin' designs anyway, most by a wide margin all things considered."

    Spare parts and accessories can be easily had from Ratworx for the MSAR. I recently bought a flash suppressor designed for quick attachment to my YH 5.56 can with threads specifically for an MSAR/AUG barrel. They also sell some parts for the AUG A3.

    I'm not arguing which is better but a couple of other advantages the platform has over most other 5.56 platforms are: quick change barrel (super quick and no tools needed), easy change from right hand configuration to left (new bolt), longer magazines are more ergonomic, me and others feel the location of the carrier/bolt to the rear gives a bullpup less muzzle climb so quicker return to target, adjustable gas system. I also like the MSAR's multiple rail attachment locations. The quick change barrel will theoretically make caliber changes very easy if MSAR ever follows up on their promise to offer various calibers. And of course, the overall length is a big one.
     
  9. wally

    wally Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    Messages:
    12,118
    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    Newer MSAR without the forward assist accept unmodified AUG mags -- I'm not sure of the exact model designation but its the one I got, rail and no forward assist, I've had it a couple of years.

    I've seen the MSAR with the built in optic at gun shows here for ~$1000 recently.
     
  10. Girodin

    Girodin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,523
    I've always wanted an AR 15 in my STG 556. Having one that took the same mags as that AR would be nice too (like a STG-XM17 E4) :neener:

    There is nothing I found about the Steyr that makes it worth 3 times what a micro tech goes for. I would buy STG 556 unless you are really hung up having steyr written on it.

    I too am waiting for this. If they were reasonably priced I'd be interested in some of the ones they've mentioned. Although there is no talk of it I can't help but think that a 458 socom AUG would just be really cool.
     
  11. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,046
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I just saw that Ratworx has 5.45 conversion kits for $475! Hmm, that is tempting.

    "I've always wanted an AR 15 in my STG 556. Having one that took the same mags as that AR would be nice too (like a STG-XM17 E4) "

    My fingers some times get ahead of my brain, lol. I bought mine used with both stock types, spare firing pin, trigger group, spare complete bolt carrier spring, bolt cover, spare piston, piston spring, piston gas rings, and gas cap and a Ratworx tri rail for $1,000.

    "There is nothing I found about the Steyr that makes it worth 3 times what a micro tech goes for. I would buy STG 556 unless you are really hung up having steyr written on it."

    The Steyr AUG A3 goes for about $2K which is not even twice a new MSAR based on Ratworx prices. I think what one gets is higher quality, reliability and durability. Thats not a knock against MSAR but they aint Steyr. Of course the available A3s are made under license, not by Steyr. MSARs however have more far more modularity.
     
  12. sig220mw

    sig220mw Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Texas
    Unless I read incorrectly the XM17 is the only one available to the general public.
     
  13. boricua9mm

    boricua9mm Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,209
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    What role are you looking for the AUG type rifle to fill? If a compact package with lots of firepower is in the cards, then it can be a good choice for you. If you are looking for a long-term sustainable rifle platform, then you should be aware that NONE of the three companies (TPD, MSAR, or Steyr) are building rifles at the present time. This is cause for concern, as it has cornered this deisgn into more of a novelty at the present time.

    Contrary to popular belief, MSAR is not making any new rifles. They keep cannibalizing old rifles and putting them into the marketplace in different configurations to try and get them sold. Previous employees of MSAR say that the owner, Tony Marfione, did not pay his barel vendor, and that there probably won't be any more barrels unless someone else steps up to make them. One needs to examine the history of Microtech knives to draw a reasonable expectation for the company and its owner.

    TPD is no more, and the story is that he was getting components from Steyr when suddenly Steyr took their heads out of the rears and decided to put the A3on the American market. They cut off TPD and the rest is history.

    Steyr claims they will make more AUGs for the American market, but they are going to need to manufacture enough components stateside (or find a partner to do so) in order to get around 922(r). I don't doubt that they will make this happen; the question is "when?"

    If you really intend to purchase one, purchase the AUG. I purchased an MSAR and never had any problems with it, but the lack of long-term sustainability combined with other factors made me abandon the platform. Those aforementioned employees of MSAR have some interesting information, the kind of stuff that makes you want to turn the other way:

    -Specifications Changed: Gas block is in a different location, so you can't use Steyr barrels. Trigger packs are incompatable. Bolt interchangeability is questionable (potential headspacing issues from dimensional differences).

    -HPT without MPI: MSAR barrels were proof tested by mutiple proof loads. The barrels were spec'd for Magnetic Particle Inspection from the barrel maker, but MSAR did not conduct MPI testing after pounding barrels with proof loads. The owner was quoted as saying "If it'll take 3 proof loads, it's fine." I believe that proof firing is worthless without MPI to follow it, but not everyone agrees.


    -Horrible Barrel Honing Practices: MSAR barrels were honed with a hand drill by one person; one hand holding the drill, and the other trying to keep the barrel from flopping around. Improperly honed barrels may result in stuck casings.

    -Warranty: MSAR has a warranty, but if they've screwed over their vendors, then you are going to have a tough time getting your rifle fixed. Ratworx is supposedly suppoting the MSAR rifles, but I had a bad experience with them and won't spend one yellow quarter with them ever again.

    So...if you want an AUG, buy the Steyr. At least you can get your hands on the parts to keep it running. Even during the darkest days of the ban, Pete Athens had parts to keep the AUGs ticking. Just be prepared to fork out the cash!
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2011
  14. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,046
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    While I certainly have no intention of playing MSAR defender, i'm taking the employee comment rumors with a huge grain of salt. Unless there are posts out there with a pay stub and ID attached to prove somebody worked there how can they be substantiated? And even if such posts existed, a former disgruntled employee isn't always the most reliable source of information.

    "Contrary to popular belief, MSAR is not making any new rifles. They keep cannibalizing old rifles and putting them into the marketplace in different configurations to try and get them sold."

    What is the source of this information and what does it really mean? So long as old does not mean used I don't have an objection to them altering inventory to meet new designs if it means something such as simply putting the newer receivers on existing stocks in inventory from earlier runs. Besides, if MSAR has all these spare parts it seems they could make more money by selling spare barrels and caliber change kits. the 5.45 kit on Ratworx is the first caliber change kit i've seen.

    "If you really intend to purchase one, purchase the AUG. I purchased an MSAR and never had any problems with it, but the lack of long-term sustainability combined with other factors made me abandon the platform. Those aforementioned employees of MSAR have some interesting information, the kind of stuff that makes you want to turn the other way:"

    It seems to me that MSAR currently has more long term sustainability given that the AUG is not even being produced for US markets and there is no guarantee this will change although i very much hope it does.


    "-Specifications Changed: Gas block is in a different location, so you can't use Steyr barrels. Trigger packs are incompatable. Bolt interchangeability is questionable (potential headspacing issues from dimensional differences)."

    Did MSAR ever say their parts would be interchangeable with AUG? Its my understanding that the bolts are not due to the head spacing issues you mentioned.

    There is no question that MSAR rifles had lots of problems in the beginning which i think got rumor mill running over time. The good thing is that MSAR has so far had outstanding customer service. The little button part(don't recall exact name) broke on the MSAR i bought used and i had no problem getting it fixed. They straight up told me on the phone the metal of the earlier ones were not proper heat treated. They promptly fixed it and sent it back to me with a free PMAG and i've heard countless stories just like that. I will admit that i wonder about long term durability of the rifle given the problems the company has had but only time will tell.

    I've considered selling mine to fund an AUG but I do like the MSAR modularity and potential for caliber change. While Steyr has a good name the A3s are made by Sabre and i haven't read hardly any reviews with any serious round count to make a call on their quality. If AUGs start getting produced again down the line i may reconsider.
     
  15. boricua9mm

    boricua9mm Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,209
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    You're entitled to believe whatever you'd like, but I have no doubt that whom I was speaking with were in fact previous MSAR employees, to include someone from the engineering department. You will not find posts, as what I was told was told via private messaging, as the previous employer could have held them liable for discussing "trade secrets." Now that the separations are old news, more of the truth is starting to come out.

    The allegedly "new rifles" are still using receivers marked "Bradford, PA." As you may know, MSAR moved to North Carolina many months ago. They have not produced any new rifles, no new barrels, and whether they have made any new stocks or small parts is questionable. If they were new production items, ATF would require that they be maked with "Fletcher, NC." As for "what does it mean" all I can say is that we shouldn't believe that MSARs are still selling, like some "feel better" folks would have us believe.

    The fact of the matter is that AUG parts were never unattainable. Pete Athens has always been here supporting the AUG and its owners demand for parts. Steyr has been around for a looooong time, and their AUG isn't going to disappear anytime soon. We simply can't say the same for Tony Marfione's MSAR, as his business ethics & practices of the past 15 years have clearly shown us.

    The AUG will undoubtedly be a more sustainable option moving forward. To some of the low-round-count people, that is not important. Personally, I'd rather have rifles that I can both trust and repair/suport on my own without boxing the whole thing up and sending it on a journey in a little brown truck. With the AUG, there is more certainty. With the Marfione family, you'll certainly get broken promises. Just ask those who collect his knives...
     
  16. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,046
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    "The allegedly "new rifles" are still using receivers marked "Bradford, PA." As you may know, MSAR moved to North Carolina many months ago. They have not produced any new rifles, no new barrels, and whether they have made any new stocks or small parts is questionable. If they were new production items, ATF would require that they be maked with "Fletcher, NC." As for "what does it mean" all I can say is that we shouldn't believe that MSARs are still selling, like some "feel better" folks would have us believe."

    If MSAR had an inventory of receivers before the move and is using them up before making more I don't see that as indicative of not making new rifles. Unless the company goes under I don't foresee a problem with parts availability.

    "The fact of the matter is that AUG parts were never unattainable. Pete Athens has always been here supporting the AUG and its owners demand for parts. Steyr has been around for a looooong time, and their AUG isn't going to disappear anytime soon. We simply can't say the same for Tony Marfione's MSAR, as his business ethics & practices of the past 15 years have clearly shown us."

    Are all parts available for A3s? I know it's unlikely but how would they handle a cracked receiver? Is it possible to get spare parts for backup including barrels? If so, are they available directly from Steyr USA? That could certainly make me consider purchasing one.
     
  17. csa77

    csa77 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    499
    Location:
    florida
    there are thousands apon thousands more MSAR's then saber a3's some how i think it is always gonna be easier to find parts for them.

    ratworx is still receiving rifles, i just ordered a small parts kit and afew other parts from them(just in case parts do indeed dry up) and asked the lady on the phone if they are still receiving rifles, she told me they had just gotten in 75 rifles from MSAR 2 weeks prior to my call. this was last friday.

    i bought my MSAR used -1000$ previous owner told me he had 1,000rds though it(so its likely it had alot more) i have personally put 200rds of federal 55gr 223 though it with out any problems at all. - i could have afforded a saber/steyr but after looking up the parts cost like the 800$ barrels i decided not too.


    i must say tho that whenever the MSAR is brought up on internet forums it seems as tho boricua rears his head to bash them. imo there are ALOT of angry saber owners out there for some reason.

    steyr stocks can be made to fit the msar with a mod(so im told) but youd need to run a steyr trigger pack. bolts interchange gas pistons interchange.

    from what i understand the only things that wont work are the steyr carrier (and guts) and the steyr barrel.
     
  18. boricua9mm

    boricua9mm Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,209
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    The fact that MSAR is cannibalizing rifles that didn't sell is telling. They thought everyone would snatch up the 6.8s, 5.45s and 7.62x39s. When that didn't happen, the Rat sent them back to MSAR and Tony and the crew switched them to 5.56 to try and sell them again. According to one poster on ar15.com, when he asked if they would be making any new rifles the Customer Service guy told him "Uh, I don't think so!"

    The number of rifles in civilian hands is irrelevant to the long-term sustainability of the platform. Having more MSARs in the public's hands does not automatically equate to parts; not unless a good number of owners have parted out their rifles. Some MSAR owners have found that parts are not necessarily swappable amongst two of the same rifle.

    It also doesn't matter how many A3s are in civilian circulation. An A3 can use parts from an A1, A2, USR, etc. The only A3-specific components I can think of would be the bolt catch assembly and the bolt catch on the hammer pack itself. The AUG is an actual military rifle, so parts can and will continue to be imported. When Tony and his crew throw up the white flag on MSAR rifles, owners will not be able to enjoy the parts availability that Steyr owners have. This is the #1 problem with Tony deciding to screw with the specs.
     
  19. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,046
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    "They thought everyone would snatch up the 6.8s, 5.45s and 7.62x39s. When that didn't happen, the Rat sent them back to MSAR and Tony and the crew switched them to 5.56 to try and sell them again"

    If that were the case it seems barrel/bolts would be readily available for 5.56 owners to change caliber.

    "Some MSAR owners have found that parts are not necessarily swappable amongst two of the same rifle. "

    Where was this posted and which parts?
     
  20. Mikenmel08

    Mikenmel08 Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    28
    The MSAR is a great weapon in my opinion.It has never given me any trouble.
    [​IMG]
     
  21. boricua9mm

    boricua9mm Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,209
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Conversion kits are available through the Rattiest of Works, but it's only what Tony decides he wants to sell you. To be honest, he's never been a guy to give a rat's about demand for something specific. Again, this is nothing new to those of us who own and collect his knives.


    This guy certainly has an interesting conundrum, wouldn't ya say? ;)

    This guy is praying...


    These guys recognize old stock when they see it...

    This poor sap hears the truth from a previous employee about hand-drill honed barrels...



    I think if you dig around that particular sub-forum, you'll find that a lot of what I've been telling you has merit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page