Cougar in Suburbia?

[Patocazador]

I was told by a biologist here (Fla.) that they didn't want to confirm any cases of panthers being north of the Everglades because they are an endangered sub-species and hunting would probably be closed down in the areas of positive sightings. They have already stopped deer hunting in the core area of the panthers' habitat so that there will be enough for the panthers to eat. (Maybe they should tell the pythons about it. )

 

[H&Hhunter]

One thing that many people don’t understand is that the names, cougar, panther, catamount, puma, and mt lion, and whatever other weird local nick names are being used. Are all names for the same basic critter. While there might be some minor variances in size and behavior based on local habitat. A mountain lion is a mountain lion from the tip of South America all the way to the Northern Rockies and from the Pacific to Atlantic.

 

[Charliefrank]

At one time, NY had huge populations of what they called "black panthers" (and not the political group). whether you call them panthers, pumas, mountain lions, they are all the same. Here in FL, the mysterious and supposedly critically endangered Florida Panther has been seen in many areas around the state, not just in the Everglades where it is supposedly only living. I almost hit one a few years ago up in the panhandle. When I mentioned that to a waitress in a diner, she said there's usually one hit every two weeks or so.

Four years ago one crossed the road right in front of me in the Ocala National Forest. It was just about dusk. No mistaking that long tail.

 

[George P]

I used to live in Ocala and drove through there heading to Ormond/Flagler beach. Best I saw was a gator at the rest stop about halfway; have never seen a bear there either, although there's supposed to be tons of them in there

 

[Patocazador]

I used to live in Ocala and drove through there heading to Ormond/Flagler beach. Best I saw was a gator at the rest stop about halfway; have never seen a bear there either, although there's supposed to be tons of them in there

Lots of bears there in the forest. I've seen 5 while driving during daytime. Once, there was a brown phase small bear crossing Hwy 19 at 12:00 noon.

A friend and I were hunting a hammock by the St. John's River when we accidently got too near a sow with 2 cubs. All three went up different trees but that cut off our way out. We took to the water and circled back to the truck with wet boots and pants.

 

[desidog]

Here's the latest local sighting in CT.

The one that got run over on the Merritt Parkway in Milford CT a few years ago.

Years ago i lived in Ketchum, ID. One night i was soaking in the hot tub on the deck out back, looking for meteors, and had a big cat stalk silently through the back yard. I gasped. The cat heard me, and reaction jumped over 20 feet of lawn and the 6ft fence... and was gone.

 

[FL-NC]

It is almost funny how many people claim to see mountain lions/cougars in unexpected areas and the reports end up unconfirmed or just plain all out misidentifications. We have that going on with some regularity here in north Texas. People often misidentify domestic cats as these animals. They also get misidentified as the magical black panthers which don't actually exist. People find large footprints, almost always showing claw marks, and assume it is a mountain lion when in reality, it is nothing more than a big dog (they know nothing of footprint identification).

Bobcats get identified as mountain lions. Odd, but true. In fact, a hunting buddy of mine showed me a video of a 'mountain lion' that he took that was of a bobcat. He based his identification on its large size and ability to leap high up in a tree. Well, the tree was actually small and the cat had no tail. When the cat was compared to other things in the image, it was apparent the cat was much smaller than was initially perceived. Even so, the buddy now believes he has a giant bobcat.

Here is a hunter who called in a juvenile mountain lion that was roadkilled to the game warden apparently along with other folks. http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7195665/1 It was a bobcat.

This isn't to put down my buddy or other spotters of these cats, but to illustrate how sometimes the eye sees what the mind wants it to see.

And, that isn't to say that mountain lions won't venture into the suburbs, only that false reports and unsubstantiated reports are much more commonplace than verifiable reports.

Jaguarundis come in 2 colors- a reddish "chestnut" (easily mistaken for the lighter colors of cougar/Fl panther/ etc and a brownish-grey easily mistaken for black)- in either case, both even more easily mistaken at night, which is when most of these sighting happen). To complicate things even more, both colors can pop out in the same litter. Seriously, check it out in wikipedia.

 

[FL-NC]

One thing that many people don’t understand is that the names, cougar, panther, catamount, puma, and mt lion, and whatever other weird local nick names are being used. Are all names for the same basic critter. While there might be some minor variances in size and behavior based on local habitat. A mountain lion is a mountain lion from the tip of South America all the way to the Northern Rockies and from the Pacific to Atlantic.

DNA from Fl panthers has shown a prevalence of inbreeding due to decreased population- which will induce even more variables.

 

[FL-NC]

Lots of bears there in the forest. I've seen 5 while driving during daytime. Once, there was a brown phase small bear crossing Hwy 19 at 12:00 noon.

A friend and I were hunting a hammock by the St. John's River when we accidently got too near a sow with 2 cubs. All three went up different trees but that cut off our way out. We took to the water and circled back to the truck with wet boots and pants.

Go east of Tallahassee and you will see bear crossing signs on I-10, as well as around here on 85 in the vicinity of Eglin AFB. There is a black bear being spotted on a regular basis in a subdivision in Navarre where my friend lives, and another one occasionally getting spotted on trail cams on a ranch where I hunt just east of Crestview.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

There has been at least one documented case of a melanistic (black) mountain lion. It was killed in Guancaste Costa Rica in 1959. While I agree that there is no such thing as a “black panther” in regards to what people are claiming to see in abundance. The existence of a melanistic Cougar is possible but extremely rare.

I haven't seen the source from Costa Rica. Got a reference? What I can find on it says that it is simply dark brown, not melanistic. All the pictures I can find are B&W. The cat apparently was never actually seen by any sort of biologist that I can find, but if you have a source to the contrary, I would enjoy seeing it. Otherwise, I have my doubts about there being any actual melanistic cougars, just misidentified brown ones.
http://messybeast.com/genetics/mutant-pumas.html
http://scotcats.online.fr/abc/catspecies/blackpumas.html

I think this guy makes a very compelling statement. http://www.livingalongsidewildlife.com/2015/08/so-you-say-you-saw-black-panther-heres.html
There is no compelling evidence that a single wild “black panther” has ever existed in United States.

Why? Because there have been none actually recovered.

 

[Charliefrank]

I used to live in Ocala and drove through there heading to Ormond/Flagler beach. Best I saw was a gator at the rest stop about halfway; have never seen a bear there either, although there's supposed to be tons of them in there

We see the bears here in the forest all the time.

 

[George P]

There is no compelling evidence that a single wild “black panther” has ever existed in United States.

Why? Because there have been none actually recovered.

Lots of species go undiscovered, become extinct before discovery, or are currently out there unknown to us.

 

[redneck2]

Maybe 5-6 years ago there was a mountain lion shot by police in the western Chicago suburbs. Inside the Chicago city limits. DNR showed it was from North Dakota and had migrated for whatever reason.

 

[Art Eatman]

They are indeed travelers. Texas Parks & Wildlife released a collared cougar from Black Gap WMA, down by the Rio Grande. Two nights later a rancher north of Marathon killed it in his sheep pen, seventy miles north.

A local pilot from Alpine chartered for tracking critters with radios. One male lion had a travel circuit, north to south, from some sixty miles north of the Rio Grande to some sixty miles south of it.

 

[Flintknapper]

I haven't seen the source from Costa Rica. Got a reference? What I can find on it says that it is simply dark brown, not melanistic. All the pictures I can find are B&W. The cat apparently was never actually seen by any sort of biologist that I can find, but if you have a source to the contrary, I would enjoy seeing it. Otherwise, I have my doubts about there being any actual melanistic cougars, just misidentified brown ones.
http://messybeast.com/genetics/mutant-pumas.html
http://scotcats.online.fr/abc/catspecies/blackpumas.html

I think this guy makes a very compelling statement. http://www.livingalongsidewildlife.com/2015/08/so-you-say-you-saw-black-panther-heres.html
There is no compelling evidence that a single wild “black panther” has ever existed in United States.

Why? Because there have been none actually recovered.

I've seen the 'Costa Rica' one many times before. IMO it is far from a 'confirmed' black panther. A 'tawny' cat...no doubt. But anyone familiar with photography (in this case black and white) will readily note the cat is in the shadow of the very tree it is hanging in and the color looks (as you would expect) remarkably like the 'shadows' underneath the Man's hat, or the inside of his arm and pant leg. Because the angle of the sun is clearly high at this point it makes the cat appear dark.

Not to mention...there are light markings all the places a cougar is supposed to have them.

 

[Patocazador]

Maybe 5-6 years ago there was a mountain lion shot by police in the western Chicago suburbs. Inside the Chicago city limits. DNR showed it was from North Dakota and had migrated for whatever reason.

Clearly, the mountain lion had a brain disease. How else could you account for any thing actually wanting to be in Chicago.

I was born there and as soon as I got enough age and sense I left for parts south. I was 16 at the time. My momma didn't raise a dummy.

 

[.308 Norma]

Clearly, the mountain lion had a brain disease. How else could you account for any thing actually wanting to be in Chicago.

I was born there and as soon as I got enough age and sense I left for parts south. I was 16 at the time. My momma didn't raise a dummy.

LOL

 

[H&Hhunter]

I haven't seen the source from Costa Rica. Got a reference? What I can find on it says that it is simply dark brown, not melanistic. All the pictures I can find are B&W. The cat apparently was never actually seen by any sort of biologist that I can find, but if you have a source to the contrary, I would enjoy seeing it. Otherwise, I have my doubts about there being any actual melanistic cougars, just misidentified brown ones.
http://messybeast.com/genetics/mutant-pumas.html
http://scotcats.online.fr/abc/catspecies/blackpumas.html

I think this guy makes a very compelling statement. http://www.livingalongsidewildlife.com/2015/08/so-you-say-you-saw-black-panther-heres.html
There is no compelling evidence that a single wild “black panther” has ever existed in United States.

Why? Because there have been none actually recovered.

No scientific reference just the pictures and story that everyone else seems to have. So the “documented” part of my statement above is not actually “documented”.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mig...8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=FmB669IEOuqFZM:

 

[FL-NC]

Maybe 5-6 years ago there was a mountain lion shot by police in the western Chicago suburbs. Inside the Chicago city limits. DNR showed it was from North Dakota and had migrated for whatever reason.

Nothing is safe there.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

No scientific reference just the pictures and story that everyone else seems to have. So the “documented” part of my statement above is not actually “documented”.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mig...8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=FmB669IEOuqFZM:

I spent part of my career sourcing rare documents for information. There are some gems out there that can prove very insightful. There are some that are nothing more than fanciful writing. I was hopeful that you were in possession of one of those rare insightful gems.

Sometimes science is slow to recognize unusual things. No doubt that with a history of folks fooling or attempting to fool science, or just being plain wrong, what with faked mermaids, Piltdown Man, Tasaday tribe, cold-fusion, etc., it can make for acceptance to be slow, such as with the existence of the platypus. https://animals.howstuffworks.com/mammals/did-people-think-the-duckbill-platypus-was-a-hoax.htm

The notion of the black/melanistic mountain lion (black panther) has taken on a mythical status akin to that of Big Foot. There are countless claims of existence and eye witness accounts, terrible photographs, but with a surprising 100% failure of valid documentation. The bottom line here is that extraordinary claims (and the black panther fits this very nicely) should come extraordinary proof. All it would take is one actual dead or live specimen, yet despite the claims, there is no such specimen.

So when it comes to cougars in suburbia, there is actual documented evidence of it happening, confirmed, live animals caught, some actually killed, in suburbia. There are still rampant accounts that are unverified, many of which have been discounted as misidentifications. It should not be surprising that culture and nature will intermix, but people find it hard to believe despite the fact that there has never been a time when it did not occur.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I spent part of my career sourcing rare documents for information. There are some gems out there that can prove very insightful. There are some that are nothing more than fanciful writing. I was hopeful that you were in possession of one of those rare insightful gems.

Sorry man!

I had read about the “famous” black Mt Lion when I was in Guanacaste, Costa Rica. I didn’t research it deeply and just took it at face value. But there is no scientific documentation.

 

[Milt1]

My wife and I were visiting my youngest son who was working as a guide in Haines Alaska. One day he took us to a working gold mine on an old logging road and on the way we saw a Cougar. When we got back to Haines I reported it to the local Fish and Game department. They were skeptical at first but when I told them that the hide was a buckskin color and that it had a long tail they believed me. They said that occasionally lions come down from British Colombia into the country around Haines but that it was rare. I've hunted in Montana and I've seen Lynx and Bobcat taken along with Mule and Whitetail deer, Elk and Black bear so I know it was a Cougar. I feel very fortunate to see one as most people will live out their lives and never see one in the wild.

 

[Art Eatman]

I'm happy to have had the good fortune to see three cougars. The notable sighting was of a large-ish probably-male cat of maybe 120 to 130 pounds live weight. He came to bait about a half-hour before sundown. The usual tawny color except for his paws, mask and tail-tip: Much darker, much like a Sealpoint Siamese house cat.

My buddy shot and missed, three times. Later, back home and telling the story, he got so excited in the telling that he missed three more times.

 

[redneck2]

Ive only seen one in the wild, but that was Broadus, Montana alongside the Powder River. They’re common in that area. It was in the town limits. Told one of the guys at the local sports shop. He said they’re seen occasionally. We thought he’d just call us crazy goof balls from Indiana with overactive imaginations

Lady that ran a local shop there had one in her yard while her kids were out playing. She grabbed her rifle but didn’t get it.

 

[alsaqr]

Mountain lions (four legged cougars) are very rare in Oklahoma: i have seen two, one on Fort Sill's Quanah Parker range. For many years the OWDC was very protective of their mountain lions. The stud horse belonging to a horse breeder was injured by a mountain lion. The guy called OWDC and said he would kill the cat: The person at OWDC told him their mountain lions had tracking collars and he would be jailed for harming the cat.

There were other cases of live stock being killed/injured by mountain lions and state legislators got involved. Result: It is now acceptable to kill mountain lions that threaten livestock or humans: One is required to call the game warden when a mountain lion is killed. Before that rule went into effect i was tracking a wounded hog in a gully when suddenly something on the high bank about 25 yards distance caught my attention. Sitting on the bank was a big mountain lion, licking his chops and switching his tail. i put a 250 grain muzzleloader bullet in the animals chest.

Our neighborhood east of Cache, OK is presently plagued by a bobcat that is killing cats and dogs.