Could this be the best all-around rifle ever?

[longdayjake]

m1a socom is fun with 147 grainers but lacks any real long range capacities. I just can't figure out why someone would take an M14 and chop off the barrel so that it can be used in a building. The 5.56 in a building is more than enough to do the job and a lot lighter in the m4 config. But having shot one a lot I can say that they are fun albeit impractical for anything I do with most guns.

 

[darkknight]

i think tha rifle would make gecko drool. that thing is uber tacticool lol. somebody needs to contact him about it. or maybe he has preordered it already. all it needs is a good mall and a tactical wheel barrel and its good to go.

 

[RonE]

Just saw the Oct. 2008 edition of Special Weapons magazine. It's cover feature is an improved Springfield SOCOM II sporting what I believe is a JAE stock. From the pictures, it seems to be an incredibly attractive rifle, with many desirable features. Anybody out there have any real-world experience with this rifle?

It looks heavy.

MSRP is around $2K.

Do the tacticool gloves and sunglasses come with it or are they options?

 

[hankdatank1362]

They cost extra.

 

[Ignatius]

I am pleased to see that someone else has already thrown a FAL into the mix as "best all around rifle ever". I am a fan of both the FAL and the M1A but I think that in many ways the FAL is closer to "best all around" then the Springer.I am NOT trying to start a flame thread here, just voicing my opinion as someone who has owned both.

Ignatius

 

[gvnwst]

ya, the fal is lighter, thats a big plus.

 

[Art Eatman]

Best "all around" rifle? Er, what part of "No!" creates difficulty?

Bulky. Awkward. Ugly.

Useful in some combat situations, for sure, but not all. Certainly no particular advantages for the vast majority of all shooters.

 

[H2O MAN]

gvnwst


ya, the fal is lighter, thats a big plus.

What does an FAL weigh?

 

[Mongrel]

What does an FAL weigh?

9.8 lbs empty

Specs:

Caliber : 7,62mm NATO (7.62x51)
Action: Gas operated, tilting breechblock, select-fire or semi-auto only
Length: 1100 mm (990 / 736 mm for "Para" model)
Barrel length: 533 mm (431 mm for "Para" model)
Weight: 4.45 kg empty (3.77 kg empty for "Para" models)
Magazine capacity: 20 rounds (30 rounds for heavy barreled SAW versions)
Rate of fire: 650-700 rounds per minute

 

[Realbigo]

beats carrying a BAR

 

[H2O MAN]

Quote:
What does an FAL weigh?

Mongrel

9.8 lbs empty

Interesting... the fiberglass stocked Scout Squad weighs less @ just 9.0 lbs empty.

 

[hankdatank1362]

Bulky. Awkward. Ugly.

I'll give you the bulky and awkward.

 

[gvnwst]

Interesting... the fiberglass stocked Scout Squad weighs less @ just 9.0 lbs empty.

i have found FALs that weigh less, but the rifle in the OP was heavier than 10lb. at least it looked a lot heavier.

 

[H2O MAN]

Yeah, all of the FALs I've ever handled seemed heavier than the standard M14 type rifles I've handled.

The M14 does gain a little weight when you put it in a modern stock, but all modern M14 stocks are not created equal.
Rail mounted goodies come with an additional weight penalty and the rifle pictured in the first post has a ton off goodies mounted on the rails.

 

[gvnwst]

how much will your new M14 (or whatever) weigh?

 

[H2O MAN]

gvnwst how much will your new M14 (or whatever) weigh?

It could be about 8.5 pounds, but I have it in an RRM stock with an UltiMAK rail,
optic and enhanced muzzle device... these items should bring it closer to 10 lbs.

I wasn't going for lighter weight, recoil & muzzle rise increase as weight is reduced.

 

[gunseller2]

I own a "standard" M1A that shoots better than I can hold it and I have a lot of time behind an M14, but IMHO the SOCOM, especially the SOCOMII, to paraphrase Col Cooper, is an answer in search of a question. It's neither fish nor foul. It's too heavy and has way too much muzzle blast to be useful in close quarters and not enough gun in be useful at long range. Then let's hang on all the mall ninja crap that one can stuff on every provided rail...hopefully the prospective owner spends a bunch of time in the weight room.
Get your hands on a full size M1A or a DSA FAL.

 

[H2O MAN]

gunseller2 IMHO the SOCOM, especially the SOCOMII, to paraphrase Col Cooper, is an answer in search of a question.

My thoughts:

The SOCOM was the perfect answer to the question Springfield Armory asked itself...
"How can we increase sales of M1As?" From a sales stand point, the SOCOM is a success.

It's neither fish nor foul. It's too heavy and has way too much muzzle blast to be useful in close quarters and not enough gun in be useful at long range.

It weighs about the same as other M1As and the muzzle blast can be remedied by installing the new SOCOM 16 kit from SEI.
I understand the 16.25 can accurately reach beyond 400 yards and closer to 500 yards - YRMV.

 

[gvnwst]

I understand the 16.25 can accurately reach beyond 400 yards and closer to 500 yards - YRMV.

A AR 15 can do that more accuratly. Weighs less, less recoil, ect. only downside? Kenitic energy. but the chances of a non-DM troop being able to hit a enemy (or target) at that range is much higher with a AR than the M14.

 

[H2O MAN]

Reduced Kinetic energy and the round is more easily effected by wind & cover.

 

[gvnwst]

that is a valid point. I really would decide on the person doing the shooting. if he/she were trained correctly, give um a .308. if it is some kid who can nnot shoot that well, give him a AR.

 

[kcmarine]

The kinetic energy problem can be solved with a switch in uppers, really...

 

[Coal Dragger]

Best all around rifle ever? I don't think so. Unless the goal is the best all around gun-shop-ninja rifle in which case an argument could be made.

For an all around rifle that I would grab any time for most any use, I would go with a good all weather resistant bolt action in .308, or some other cartridge based on the .308. Add a good set of iron sights (aperture rear), top it with a good quality scope of reasonable size and magnification (scout or conventional). Make sure is has a good trigger, and a stock that fits you.... and you're pretty much all set for an all around rifle.

 

[cliffy]

In basic training I used a M1-Garand

Shows my age, but when I arrived overseas, M14s ruled. Lighter, with less recoil seemed cool. 20 rounds as opposed to 8 rounds seemed significant. Then they stuck me with a M60 machine gun. Where's the justice in that? My Drill Sergeant in basic, fired a M1 Garand from his nut-sack, but I thought heck with that! I couldn't even aim properly that way, plus I'll bet it hurt. I knew what he was implying, but I believed he needed lots of ice afterwards. Then I hit the field with a M14, which I never, ever fired from my nut sack. Seemed an impractical aiming point to me. I ended up as a Flying Crewchief in the Army. Then back to M14s for airfield patrol behind the relative safety of concertina wire and perimeter lights. Full-circle to M60 machinegun mounds, but I was also the Linechief of 20th Artillery Aviation, six miles south of the DMZ. Those were golden years, when ArtyFlight Captains called me, "SIR." Though, neither really called each other "SIR." All of us worked together to survive. Once I taxied a plane down the road to the concessionary to purchase a hamburger, and would you believe flack occurred the next day! Since, I had taxy orders to taxy anywhere, that one went no where fast. This is no stuff, and certainly not all my military misadventures. I guess I could write a book concerning ALL of THEM. cliffy

 

[bender]

I don't think I'd use the words "incredibly attractive" to describe a rifle...