Country with better gun laws than USA?

[FNFiveSeven]

I was just reading the thread "Too much point of aim" and saw a poster put up a picture of two guns which, if possessed, would be in violation of several US Federal gun laws. There were two "short barreled" rifles, a suppressor, and an "assault rifle" which is certainly not allowed for import in the US today. This poster hails from Norway, which clearly doesn't have as restrictive a set of gun laws as we do... and I don't care what you might say about how the Scandinavian gov't tracks and watches it's gun owners... when was the last time you saw a Glock with a stock? Huh? So, aside from Norway, who else kicks the ??? of the "land of the free?" I've heard that New Zealand lets people order full autos through the mail... is this true? For all our talk about how we would never let anything happen here like it has in England, Australia, Canada, etc... we sure take it from the feds an awful lot. Is it possible we've just been brainwashed by all the constant pro-US flag waving BS? Is this country really so great? Well... is it? When you look as the stars and stripes, what do you see? I see a country that elected Feinstein, Boxer, and Hillary Clinton to the US senate. I see a country that elected Bill Clinton... not once, but twice!

 

[Logan5]

Switzerland is interesting. One of my best friends is Swiss, and when he goes over to visit his granddad's farm they have an (edit: it's a Stgw 57), among other things, that they take out shooting. I'm told the deal is that you can take your issue weapon out shooting, but you can't touch your issue ammo. It's sealed, and I guess they inspect it.
For my own FOAF horn tooting/Your information, my friend's dad was a Swiss paratrooper, and appears in the opening sequence of "Where Eagles Dare". That's his claim to fame; the Swiss had those three planes, and they filmed Swiss paras dropping for the opening. He's the unknown stuntman who made Eastwood look so fine.
I also recall reading an article in a Gun Digest type periodical by some guy who lived in Panama, or thereabouts, and was able to assemble a pretty interesting military/historical arms cross section, except that he had to rebuild most of the rusted out crapola. But the upshot was, he got an old M14 out of someone's shack and rebuilt it, and had a select fire MBR no problem. That'd be fun.

 

[Kodiak AK]

Actualy , I am preaty sure nothing in that pic was ilegial . If you jump thru all the hoops and pay your Class 3 taxes , it should all be fine.

 

[Tamara]

blackrazor,

when was the last time you saw a Glock with a stock? Huh?

Actually, Kobun will tell you that the shoulder stock on the Glock was technically Not Quite Legal where he lived.

By the way, I know lots of people with SBR's, full autos, suppressors, and suchlike. I can buy a folding stock AK-47 for cash in a personal sale with no paperwork or notice to the government, and it is perfectly legal for me to do so. Most of America doesn't have gun laws like you live under in California.

So, aside from Norway, who else kicks the ??? of the "land of the free?"

Now, Norway lets you buy suppressors freely, and has different regulations for rifle barrel lengths. They also have no CCW and far more restrictive ownership laws, as well as national registration. I guess if I lived in California, their gun laws would sound pretty amazing, but from where I sit in Tennessee, they kinda suck.

I've heard that New Zealand lets people order full autos through the mail... is this true?

No.

New Zealand's gun laws are better than Australia's, but only slightly. Roughly on par with, say, New Jersey.

 

[Mark Tyson]

In New Zealand you can still own so-called "assault weapons" and normal capacity magazines.

Same in Finland, and silencers are legal there as well.

Actually, if you like to collect military style firearms and don't mind registration, storage requirements, and other legal hoops, there are a lot of countries better than the US. Forget about CCW though.

 

[Tamara]

In New Zealand you can still own so-called "assault weapons" and normal capacity magazines.

You can here, too.

Same in Finland, and silencers are legal there as well.

You can here, too.

Granted, you have to jump through hoops to get the suppressor here, but probably fewer hoops than the Scandihoovian had to jump through to get the gun it's mounted on.

My first criteria for Good Gun Laws: Are anonymous, face-to-face cash purchases of firearms legal or not? (IE: Are guns registered and controlled, or not?)

My second criteria: Is a special government permission slip required to own guns?

Several foreign countries, such as Massachussetts, New Jersey, and California fall down pretty badly on these two, but most of the US does okay.

We think it's amazing that someone can walk into a store and buy a suppressor with no special paperworkm and they probably think it's amazing that I can walk over to my neighbour's house and buy a rifle with no special paperwork.

 

[Mark Tyson]

But in New Zealand and Finland you can own new "assault weapons" - they call them Miltary Style Semi-automatics (MSSA's).

 

[FPrice]

Logan5...

"He's the unknown stuntman who made Eastwood look so fine."

I wonder how many people caught this reference?

 

[Tamara]

But in New Zealand and Finland you can own new "assault weapons" -

So can I, but they have to have "muzzle brakes" instead of "flash suppressors." Granted, the magazines have to be at least ten years old, but considering that I was able to order several dozen Bundeswehr-surplus mags for my HK91 at $3 a pop, I'm not feeling this particular pinch too hard.

Call me crazy, but going to a nationalized registration scheme, strict waiting periods, psychological screeing to get a license, and ridiculous storage requirements all so I can have frickin' bayonet lugs on new guns just doesn't strike me as much of an improvement.

 

[VeT|Us]

Heck, I live in Norway and would trade all the silencers, hi-cap magazines and short-barreled Sport Utility Rifle's ( ) for a CCW license and a simple 1911.

Rather one gun on my person than 10 in the safe.




I have family 'over there', maybe that's my excuse to move

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Jeff Cooper says that Bolivia has great gun laws.

 

[Mark Tyson]

"He's the unknown stuntman who made Eastwood look so fine."

I wonder how many people caught this reference?

That would be from the old show "the fall guy", which had a nice little theme song, too.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Hawkeye: I believe Mr Cooper implied that Bolivia has great gun laws because the government is (or was) unable to realistically enforce any gun laws.

That would put Bolivia in the category of countries that don't so much condone civillian possession of firearms, as much as they simply admit that they can't do much about it.

There's probably a number of nations with weak governments where you can pretty much do what you want until local thugs (gov't or private) show up to make demands.

 

[larry_minn]

The unknown stuntman. I must admit I missed it the first time.
I honestly don't know of ANY place in the world where the general Public has as many freedoms relating to firearms as the USA.
How many other countries can you strap on a handgun or two and drive around the state? Have as many guns as you can afford and as much ammo as you can haul (or get hauled to you) Yes there are a bunch (about 20k) stupid laws you have to worry about. and tons of restrictions but still I don't know of a better place. PLUS some of those stupid laws MAY be changed.
MN now has general (shall issue) Concealed carry and hopefully the number of other states who accept a permit from any state with carry laws will extend area. The insult weapons ban MAY die with no renewal. (watch for major incident less then a week before the vote) I must admit IF the bad is not renewed and receprosity occures between the (40??) states that allow CCWP I will be happy for now.

 

[Kobun]

Tamara is right,
Actually, I will tell you that the shoulder stock on the Glock is technically Not Quite Legal where I live.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

Kobun,

Well, even if it's not quite legal, the rest of what you had in that picture is legal, and that's a lot more than we can say here in the US. Yes, I admit, things are FAR worse here in Kali than the rest of the US, but the feds allow this state to get away with it's draconian laws, I doubt subsections of Norway will throw you in jail for 10 years just for possessing something that's legal in other parts of the country.

Tamara,

If "assault rifles" are really legal to own here in the USA, please direct me to the nearest store where I can pick up a new HK G36. The Clinton gun ban isn't the worst, it's the Bush ban that really screws us out of owning any of the good stuff.

Vet|US,

Don't feel so bad, remember that CCW is a relatively new phenomenon here in the US, almost nobody had it 15 years ago, you could have it soon too if you tried.

 

[Logan5]

Well, you'd have to be a class 3 dealer, but there's one for $1800 Here:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976357261.htm

And I guess it's not really a G36, what with the SL8 barrel, but hey, I wouldn't mind.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

Logan5,

I don't think it counts if you have to be a dealer/distributer to possess.... hell if I didn't mind becoming a professional arms dealer, of course I could own anything I wanted, even if I lived in England. What matters to me is what an ordinary non-military/dealer/LEO can own.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

the rest of what you had in that picture is legal, and that's a lot more than we can say here in the US.

Suppressed and short barrel weapons, as well as full-auto weapons, can all be legally owned in the US. I don't see your point. They would all be legal if you abide by the NFA.

 

[glocksman]

But thanks to the 1986 ban, they're so freaking expensive that the average person can't afford a decent full auto arm.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

Sodium Benzoate

If full auto weapons are truly legal, please point me to where I could buy a newly manufactured M16 (made in, oh, let's say... the last TEN years)?

 

[Mark Tyson]

Maybe you can get a full auto in the 9th circuit now. Someone just has to follow the old NFA rules. That law is effectively dead in the 9th circuit, unless the Supreme Court reverses it, and I doubt USSC will rule on anything related to guns anytime soon.

 

[Logan5]

So no one is aware of a nation where you can pretty much buy whatever you want? All I've been able to google up are places that are the exact opposite.

 

[c_yeager]

There are a few nations with virtually no (enforced) gun laws whatsoever. But, i dont really think you would want to live in them.

 

[fallingblock]

New Zealand's firearms laws are heading down the plughole...

perhaps as early as this (Southern Hemisphere) winter.

The possession of MSSA's is much more strictly regulated than 'ordinary'
"A" Category firearms (rifles and shotguns which are not semi-autos having a magazine capacity greater than seven).

The proposed, and almost certain to pass, "Arms Amendment Act II" will more-than-likely see MSSA's "grandfathered" and you Californians will understand what that means. The legal ones are all registered and located now.

Unfortunately, the relatively benign firearms laws of post-1983 New Zealand (longarms only, pistols are very tightly controlled) have been increasingly and pointlessly tightened over the past fifteen years.

New Zealand has the lowest (or second lowest) firearms homicide rate
of the OECD nations.

The proposed legislation is to please the Left of the current Labour Government, Australia's Police Ministers and "anti-gun activist" Phillip Alpers in particular.

Think of a male Sarah Brady (ugh) and you've got Phil. A tireless campaigner for laws that do nothing positive, but they make him feel good.

I admire New Zealand for many reasons, and have a current NZ 'A' firearms licence myself, but, sadly, Kiwis certainly do not enjoy 'better' firearms laws than the majority of U.S. states.