Country with better gun laws than USA?

[Tamara]

blackrazor,

If "assault rifles" are really legal to own here in the USA, please direct me to the nearest store where I can pick up a new HK G36.

Certainly. Try Craig's Firearms & Police Supply, out Chapman Highway. Bring proof of your SOT status and a request for demo letter signed by a local CLEO. (You do know that Kobun is a firearms importer/dealer in Norway, right? )

If full auto weapons are truly legal, please point me to where I could buy a newly manufactured M16 (made in, oh, let's say... the last TEN years)?

Have you even made an attempt to compare the legal restrictions on full-auto weapons between Norway and the US? I know a few folks (private citizens) who own M-16's and G-36's (in their capacity as SOT's.) Heck, I know a few folks who own frickin' miniguns. (As a matter of fact, at work, we just finished doing some work on the uppers of a local citizen's collection of CAR-15's and XM-177's. All five of them...)

While you're at it, ask Kobun what the legality would be of a private citizen meeting another private citizen in a parking lot to buy an HK91A3, Daewoo DR200 or an underfolder AK in Norway by showing no ID other than some pictures of dead presidents (that's how I got mine, perfectly legally...)

 

[FNFiveSeven]

Well, I don't really care one way or another about whether I can conduct private party transfers without ID so long as I still need ID to buy new guns, whether or not ID is needed for used guns is just a technicality. I'd gladly live in a system where I had to show ID and wait x number of days if I knew it meant I could buy an MP5. Of course, maybe I'm just saying this because out here in Kali, I've had to show ID for all private and dealer transactions anyway, as well as wait 10 days for any transfer... but now that I'm living under the Kali assault weapon ban, I know what bad laws really are. They aren't paperwork, they aren't taxes, and they aren't waiting periods, those are just inconveniences. What really sucks are the outright gun bans, and when it comes to those, it seems as if Norway has us beat (and I'm sure others do too).

 

[Tamara]

blackrazor,

What really sucks are the outright gun bans,

Once again, what outright bans? I know plenty of folks with brand spanking new full autos. All they had to do was produce the right paperwork.

I'd gladly live in a system where I had to show ID and wait x number of days if I knew it meant I could buy an MP5.

You do live in that system, if you'd care to research it hard enough.


(PS: I wouldn't be so ready to sell fundamental rights away in order to be able to jump through hoops to buy whatever Rainbow Six toys the government said I could. I'd much rather be able to privately buy an FN-49 or Garand that had never been on paper than a G36 that I needed to show my Government Issued Permission Slip to even touch and had to keep in a Government-Inspected safe separate from its ammunition... )

 

[Zundfolge]

Once again, what outright bans? I know plenty of folks with brand spanking new full autos. All they had to do was produce the right paperwork.

I'm a Graphic Designer ... not a cop with a signed letter from the chief and not a licensed gun dealer ... what paperwork can I produce to buy a brand spanking new full auto legaly?

 

[entropy]

"I can buy a folding stock AK-47 for cash in a personal sale with no paperwork or notice to the government, and it is perfectly legal for me to do so."

If this is full auto, I'm curious how Tenn. State law supercedes Federal law. If not full auto, perhaps 'folding stock semi-auto AK-47' would be a better way to word this.

 

[Dan Forrester]

“Once again, what outright bans?â€

Observe: http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976418415.htm

$14,999.00 for a $950 rifle is the same thing as an outright ban as far as I’m concerned.

“Well, I don't really care one way or another about whether I can conduct private party transfers without ID so long as I still need ID to buy new guns, whether or not ID is needed for used guns is just a technicality.â€

I totally agree. I love a private transfer every now and then, but I have so may registered guns that it really makes no difference.

Dan

 

[Beetle Bailey]

I totally agree. I love a private transfer every now and then, but I have so may registered guns that it really makes no difference.

It may make no difference now, but it would make a difference were some type of confiscation to take place. Can things be better here in the USA, and specifically for me in California? Yes. But I agree with Tamara. I live lawfully in California. If I want to go full-auto that badly, I can go on a trip to Las Vegas or Arizona and rent a full-auto Thompson, MP5, Uzi, or whatever (I'm not really into full-auto). Garands and FN49's are plenty fun and useful. And legal. Part of freedom is "if I'm not hurting anyone, I don't want to be bothered by people who can't sleep at night if they don't know everything about my personal possessions."

Note to ATF Agent Schmuckitelli: I don't have a Garand or FN49, just what you see in the C&R Boundbook .

 

[Logan5]

Actually, I'd think that if there was going to be confiscation, whoever was doing it would just load my whole safe onto a truck and cart it back to wherever to torch it open, private and dealer purchases alike. I'm not keeping my private purchases cached out in the woods or buried in the compost heap, because I bought them to shoot them, not hide them. In that kind of nightmare scenario, the confiscators are going to take your 1860 army repro and your civil war reenacting uniform too, along with everything else not nailed down.
I think the original question is more like, what (if any) country allows you to walk into a gunshop and buy a full auto whatever as easily as you can buy a winchester 94 in our most reasonable state? (and I have no idea.)

 

[Beetle Bailey]

Logan5 Good point. Sorry, I get carried away sometimes on just the principle of the whole issue. Yeah, I only hear about places where you can buy AK's in outdoor flea markets on the news. Usually it's on the news because of some civil war/genocide/lawlessness thing, so I'm thinking that isn't what the original poster is asking about. Anyways, this is all Kobun's fault - we should vote him off the forum .

 

[Mark Tyson]

Guys, from a military gun collector's viewpoint other countries have us beat. We cannot buy normal capacity magazines made after 1994. The ones in circulation will gradually fade into uselessness through normal wear and tear. The 1994 ban did little on its face but it did make gun makers leery of putting out "evil gun" designs for the masses. The 1986 FOPA ensured that machine guns are prohibitively high for most people. Only dealers with a letter of interest from a government agency can get modern full autos. That group of people hardly constitutes the general public. Pre-86 machine guns will slowly wear out through regular use.

Sorry to hear the news about New Zealand.

 

[Dan Forrester]

“It may make no difference now, but it would make a difference were some type of confiscation to take place.â€

Maybe; but probably not. People who own registered weapons probably own 90% the unregistered weapons. And the remaining 10% are tactically useless firearms owned by people who haven’t shot them in decades. Just my own personal experiences.

“If I want to go full-auto that badly, I can go on a trip to Las Vegas or Arizona and rent a full-auto Thompson, MP5, Uzi, or whatever (I'm not really into full-auto).â€

Or for that matter we could all just join the military. But I’m a pharmacology student plus an MBA, and a small business owner on top of that. What if I want to take personal possession of a full auto weapon, to use on my own terms when I have the time.

I’m not really into full auto either, unless it’s belt fed. I’m a suppressor guy myself. It’s my only NFA weapon. I guess I’m getting off track now, but my point is that, although I very much dislike paperwork, I’d at least like the option to fill it out and be done with it for a reasonable price.

I’m not saying Norway is any better or worse than we have it here; I really don’t know.

Dan

 

[FNFiveSeven]

I really don't get your point Tamara, you're not making much sense. You know plenty of people with newly manufactured machine guns? All I have to do is fill out the appropriate paperwork? Why... it's all so simple, what have I been worried about all this time?!?!?!

Please don't tell me that all I have to do is "fill out the appropriate paperwork" when that means either signing up for the military or applying to become a Class 3 dealer, because you know that's not what I mean. Besides... if you know a fool-proof "just fill out the paperwork" route to becoming a class 3 dealer, I and many others on this board would love to know how it's done. But I'll bet you 10-1 that the response to my appication will be a big, fat NO. Remind me again how that's not an outright ban?

 

[entropy]

"While you're at it, ask Kobun what the legality would be of a private citizen meeting another private citizen in a parking lot to buy an HK91A3, Daewoo DR200 or an underfolder AK in Norway by showing no ID other than some pictures of dead presidents (that's how I got mine, perfectly legally...)"

Again, semi or full auto? If these are semi- say so. If these are full auto, Agent Schmuckatelli would like a word with you.

I found this website quite interesting: www.atf.treas.gov Full of info from the definitive source.

 

[entropy]

Tamara, you're starting to remind me of that lady that claims you don't have to pay Federal Income Tax. Last I heard, she was working out a deal with the IRS to pay back taxes. The ATF is not so kind.

 

[Cosmoline]

You can find nations with more liberal laws re. full auto weapons, I'm sure. But for overall gun laws and pro-gun climate, it's tough to beat Alaska.

What'ya mean Alaska isn't a nation?

 

[VeT|Us]

Okay, so its good to be able to have 17 or 18 rounds in the pistols here, to buy new hi-cap magazines, and also be able to buy rifles like Sig550, 551, Aug, whatever.

What sucks is:

The law here is based on need.
Yes, it is possible to obtain alot of sweet firearms, but you have to jump through alot of hoops to get it done.

Take me for example.
To buy my Rem870, I had to take the Hunters Test.
Thats 30 hours of school in the evening, followed by a written exam.
After that, I applied for my gun and after 2 weeks, Got the permission to buy it.

Enough hassle for 'ya?

Now, I have the Rem870. That means, i dont really need another shotgun, without selling the one I have first. Yup, they can deny me to buy another shotgun because I already have one..

Yeah well, Im talking about getting guns as a hunter here, not an IPSC-competitor. That involves other hoops to jump.

 

[niemandistdort]

However, please note that most "Other countries" on planet will not deny you for life over "Domestic Violence" (Mere accusation does it in U.S.).

Depends upon one's comfort level, have been to many places where arms are taken as a given. As well as banking privacy, and privacy in personal life.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

I don't think being *accused* of a crime of domestic violence loses you all gun rights for life, although there may be a temporary loss associated with it until the charges are cleared. The problem is that too many people plead "no contest" to these mild misdemeanor charges without realizing the implications on gun ownership. Additionally, it sucks more for people who lost their guns after admitting to domestic violence before it meant losing your guns... the law was retroactive.

 

[niemandistdort]

Sorry, no. Friend of mine guest with feds for a year over this. Had concealed licence, was served with restraining order (Automatic in issuance, no defence) ATF immediatly on doorstep as he was automatically in violation of federal law. Is appealing, of course, life-savings going away, but for now? Barred-for-life.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

What if I want to take personal possession of a full auto weapon, to use on my own terms when I have the time.

but my point is that, although I very much dislike paperwork, I’d at least like the option to fill it out and be done with it for a reasonable price.

I understand what you are saying, I really do. I also agree 100%. If full-auto were more available than currently, I would honestly be happy about it even though I (were I allowed) probably wouldn't be rushing to get one. I think this is a philosophic issue. To me, it's better if I have more freedom. The more I have to ask for permission to have sometime, the less I feel I am in charge of my own life. I guess it's up to each individual to define their sense of freedom their own way.

 

[SAG0282]

As far as I'm concerned, a country (or state, etc) doesn't have good gun laws if it forbids or heavily regulates CCW.

 

[Sunspot]

Nice thread here. Let me throw more on the fire. I am not a dealer, LEO or a Gov type. I can't buy a FN Five seveN here in the States. Is there another country where I can buy one legally?
To the best of my knowledge, they are not illegal, it's just no one will sell me one.

 

[femoralis]

You can get a FN Five seveN now. They are making them w/ 10 rnd mags and non-ap ammo.

 

[Sunspot]

That is the IOM (Individual Officer Model). The only place I have found that sells them has restrictions on the sale. That one has to be a LEO and sign an agreement to only sell it back to the place of purchase.
Do you know of another dealer without restrictions on the sale?

 

[femoralis]

http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=16332222