Couple reload questions about .45ACP

[RoostRider]

Little background first.... or jump to the pertinent part below the line ________

Been a reloader for ~20 years... mostly pistol, but some rifle and shotshell as well... I have a nice set-up with a friend. Combined we have a nice old Lee Turret Press, a shotshell press (can't recall brand- the red one), a Dillon progressive press, a 'nut-cracker' style press (mostly used for re-priming), and all of the accouterments.

As I said, I mostly reload pistol, of that mostly 9mm, as that is what I shoot the most by far. I also shoot a fair share of .357mag and .38 spcl. I have strayed here and there and done some other types, but not much.

I worked up loads for my guns by experimenting based on the data in my manuals (I have many) and my experience. Never got 'super picky' about it (no chrono or whatnot), but I am a good, experienced reloader, with a constant eye on safety and a renewed respect for vigilance (after a recent experience in which I let someone else run my press, was distracted and came to regret the squibs that resulted)

In rifle, I have only done .223, and a couple very small runs of .308 and .30-06

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I purchased a pile of left over reloading equipment many years ago that included a pretty sizable pile of .45 components. Some clean-sized-primed brass, lots of different wadcutters, RNL's, FMJ's, and HP's, and thousands of once fired (?) brass (in real nice shape).

Well, I finally decided to load up some of that, so I started with the brass that was clean and primed. There were about 60 of those.

I checked the load manuals and found a nice load for that pig (~850 fps lol) to start out with and go from there.

In reloading this I had a couple of issues. I was using the Dillon 550. The first was that the crimp stage (which is more like a straightening stage instead) was very difficult.... the brass was clean, not lubed.... I progressed with this for a little bit until a round failed- the brass sheared off clean at the canalure about half way down at this, the final stage.... I managed to drill and push the FMJ and piece of broken brass out, and then went on to lube all the brass, with no similar results..... the rounds looked nice.... the rounds shot fine....

Being that I have never run this brass through a re-size or prime, I also have a couple other questions.


Is it normal to have to lube .45ACP brass before the 'crimp' stage?
Does this brass require a full re-size, or is it only to the canalure?
Does this cartridge require a magnum or regular pistol primer? Or does it depend on the load?

Oddly, I couldn't find this info listed in my reload manuals... although admittedly I haven't scoured them yet for the information...... I don't have the manuals here with me, but I want to have the right components for the next venture of reloading....

Thanks for your time.....

 

[Clarence]

I full length size mine all the way down to the head.

I have never heard of lubing before crimping.
A regular large pistol primer is all that is required.

If you sheared the brass off as you described either the brass was faulty or something else is totally out of whack.

What kind of dies were you using?

 

[Ol` Joe]

Is it normal to have to lube .45ACP brass before the 'crimp' stage?

No

Does this brass require a full re-size, or is it only to the canalure?

Straight walled brass is almost always full sized

Does this cartridge require a magnum or regular pistol primer? Or does it depend on the load?

The powder used will determine the primer needed. The manuals always give the suggested primer for every cartridge/load in them on the intro page for the cartridge you are loading.

 

[moooose102]

well, i do not have to lube mine, but, i do have carbide dies. if yours are regular steel dies,???? i would also check the die itself to make sure there is not a problem with it. yes, the brass requires full length resizing. standard large pistol primers is the norm for this round. magnums can be used, just reduce the powder a little and all will be fine. good luck in the future runs!

 

[RoostRider]

The powder used will determine the primer needed. The manuals always give the suggested primer for every cartridge/load in them on the intro page for the cartridge you are loading.

Thats what I thought, but I looked there on the manual I was using (Hornady? I think) and it was mostly ldle jibber about where the round came from and how it is used..... I was disappointed in that.... perhaps it is in the other ballistics book? (that would seem odd and I didn't bother looking there yet....)

I have other manuals, but have not had time to look through them yet....

Thanks for the input so far... I knew you guys were good for something.....

 

[LogicGS]

You shouldn't need a magnum primer in a .45ACP load.

I load with VihtaVouri N340, which is a pretty slow powder, and it runs just dandy with a standard large pistol primer.

You might have a look at the bell on those cases that failed, could be that the guy before you opened them up way too big, and they simply wouldn't fit into the crimp die without peeling off the belled portion of the case.

No lube before the crimp for me, but I'm using carbide dies.

 

[RoostRider]

I flared them myself... it was barely visable, but the bullets set fine..... I didn't re-adjust the die after that, and all the lubed ones went fine (not as difficult, and no more sheared off brass), so I doubt it was that.... good idea though....

I have to look and see if the die is a carbide.... it came with the stuff so I guess I don't know.... I should have checked, but didn't even think about it...

Do you guys not use lube at all even in re-size?
If not, do you wipe it off after the re-size?
Perhaps that is why.... these were bone dry...

Only one case failed......

Once I started lubing (I always lube very lightly) it worked just fine....

 

[LogicGS]

I resize, flare, seat, and crimp without lubing a thing (except maybe the ram on the press).

That's the beauty of the carbide dies. No more lube.

Hell, I don't even tumble the brass before I resize, unless it's hellatiously dirty.

 

[Clifford]

Carbide die sets actually only use carbide on the resizing die. The crimp die is standard, at least with dillon and rcbs die sets. I use carbide dies and never lube or wipe down the brass. I would suggest you allways resize even if you are loading new brass.

You mention that you used brass that the previous owner had primed, its possible that they didnt resize the brass first. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[LogicGS]

The Lee set I use has a carbide size ring on the crimp die too.

The crimp head itself is regular steel though.

 

[Walkalong]

Is it normal to have to lube .45ACP brass before the 'crimp' stage?

You don't need to lube for a crimp, period. Polish the taper crimping surface on the die. It will help a lot.

The first was that the crimp stage (which is more like a straightening stage instead) was very difficult....

Lee FCD with carbide ring you say? Maybe it was just one oversized bullet, perhaps a bit crooked as well, being smashed back to spec. Just a thought.

Does this brass require a full re-size, or is it only to the canalure?

Cannelured pistol brass is full length sized like all other pistol brass. It may have just been a bad piece of brass. Too deep a cannelure could have weakened it.

So, a weak, cannelured, piece of brass was trying to jam its way through the Lee FCD die and sheared off at the cannelure. Sound right?

 

[243winxb]

Do you guys not use lube at all even in re-size?
If not, do you wipe it off after the re-size?
Perhaps that is why.... these were bone dry...

Depends on what type of Full Length Resizing Die you have. Tungsten Carbide dies need no lube. Steel dies need a lot of lube, then it gets wiped off. Titanium Nitride Handgun Dies need just a touch of lube, the amount is so small, wiping is not needed, but you can if you want. Never heard of a 45acp case coming apart in the middle, new to me.

 

[1858rem]

You mention that you used brass that the previous owner had primed, its possible that they didnt resize the brass first. Just my 2 cents worth.

try and resize to see if this is your problem... no issue with depriming live rds just take it easy and be sure to catch all the good primers!

 

[rcmodel]

Thats what I thought, but I looked there on the manual I was using (Hornady? I think) and it was mostly ldle jibber about where the round came from and how it is used..... I was disappointed in that....

Every reloading manual I own, including two sets of Hornady's, tell you exactly what primer to use in the main heading for the cartridge.

Hornady clearly states:
Cartridge drawing & dimensions.
Test Handgun.
Barrel length & twist.
Case.
Primer.
Bullet Dia.
Max OAL.
Max case length.
Case trim length.

Only then does the "idle jibber" start, followed by the actual data.

rc

 

[RoostRider]

rc- I will give it another look..... as noted, that's what I thought too....

You mention that you used brass that the previous owner had primed, its possible that they didnt resize the brass first. Just my 2 cents worth.

It is possible that the one that sheared off was not resized I guess..... I didn't run them all through a re-size because I checked several and they were re-sized...... but I doubt it, since the bullets fell right into the un-re-sized brass without so much as being pressed.... I think I would have noticed that on this one piece....

Maybe it was just a piece of brass that was compromised somehow (they all looked good though)....

If this had happened to one piece of 9mm or .357 I would not have bothered to ask, but since I had never done .45 before I thought maybe there was something special I was missing.... I guess not...

Thanks for all the helpful information guys.... I will let you know if the problem continues after I have taken all these things into consideration....

 

[BLJimmy]

My guess is it is just a bad piece of brass. I load .45 on my Dillon 550, and must have done about a zillion of them without lube. I use carbide dies. I also full length resize.